G-Prime Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 QB will fumble the ball if protection breaks down and somebody hits him from the blind side. Most of Brunell fumbles can be attributed to poor blocking. A lot of his ints were tipped balls or missed calls (TB game). Do you really think PR would have turned the ball over less? Ramsey got sacked 40+ times two years ago.. How many times did he fumble the ball?? All season? Can someone pull that stat out please? I know for damn sure it wasn't 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Ramsey got sacked 40+ times two years ago.. How many times did he fumble the ball?? All season? Can someone pull that stat out please? I know for damn sure it wasn't 8 Actually it was 8. And he has 25 in his career. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302216 Addition: http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1032 - Brunell for comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins fan1010 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Are you serious? if these guys give us the best chance of winning, then i don;t EVER want to see the guys who don;t give us the best chance of winning. Those guys must really suck.Ur correct, but i;ve seen times (the bucs game was a good example) where the defender simply had brunell by the jersey. The defender then spun him around in attempt to get him down, :cool: . and the ball just popped right out. Dude, You really have to learn when to use apostrophes instead of semi-colons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbuzz1962 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Two points here I would like to address. First of all, the reason the close losses happened is play calling. I don't think it mattered which qb was in the game. The other thing is, I listened to his talk show on 980. He basically admitted his conservatism by stating, you know if we throw the ball, and it is incomplete, you leave more time on the clock. That just confirms his thinking at that point in a game is to be conservative, in case. Well Joe, if the pass is completed, then you win the game. Isn't it more important to think that way instead of not having confidence in your offense to complete a short pass? Those types of plays build confidence in your offense to be able to do it again in another game. As much as I like Joe Gibbs, he continues to think the NFL is operating the same way it did in the 80's and 90's. Coaches this year have been less conservative than I have seen in many years. These coaches are playing to win a game, instead of relying on a defense to stop the other team from making any plays. I feel we would have a minimum record of 8-3 had he just left it in the offense's hands to make a play or two. Isn't that the key to any winning teams ability to win a game? That is what offense is about. Keep the ball longer than the other guys, good chance of winning. It is true also, that Brunnell can't take a hit without dropping the ball. I know his offensive line needs to help, but you have to tuck the ball away when blocking breaks down. I don't understand either why he named Ramsey the starter, to only give him a half a game before pulling out the hook. I don't think any of us would know what would of happened if Ramsey continued to play, and learn from his mistakes. It was the first game of the season, give him a break. A lot of good teams lost on opening day who now have a winning record, poised to make the playoffs. The truth is, Gibbs never intended to let Ramsey be the starter. He had to of made his mind up long ago to go with Brunnell again. It looks like it was a mistake, just as it was last year to leave him in for 9 games. Ramsey actually started looking much better at the end of the season, and we were all criticizing Gibbs for waiting too long to start him. The uphoria of winning three games in a row gave us all amnesia from the previous years problems. Well, looks like we made the same mistakes at the QB position. Portis is fine, he needs a compliment back like Alstot to punch the yards out in a stacked box. He is just too small to run it up the gut when the opposing defense knows that is what is going to happen. QB position has haunted us year after year now, and that is the adjustment that needs to be made asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark911 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 HOLY CHRIST! 6 losses and we're all going crazy..... If you want to look at it that way, Brunell's fumbles arent' entirely his fault. Sure, a QB's gonna get hit and he needs to be able to hold onto the ball, which he has done many times this season. But the line has sucked, protection has broken down and he's gotten blind-sided quite a few times, in which case, he loses the ball. Should he be able to "feel" blind-side pressure? Probably. The point is that Ramsey was pulled for making bad decisions on his own. He wasn't chucking the ball into the opponents hands for any reason but his own bad calls. Brunell is at least being helped along in his fumbles.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nostril Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Two points here I would like to address. First of all, the reason the close losses happened is play calling. Two Confessions, I didn't even read this whole thing, and I realize I'm lashing out at you specifically when I could be lashing out at just about anyone.It is now Tuesday. More than 48 hours after the game started. Since the game ended everyone and their mother has said "play calling" lost the game for us. People have disagreed. I have disagreed. However, two days later Why are you bringing it up? Do you really think there's anything left to say on that matter? This argument has been giving ad nauseum, and to be honest, the argument is rather compelling! But this board sounds like a broken record. Let's please talk about something else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 where does this "coach is playing favorites" argument come from? If Gibbs is playing favorites its because he thinks Brunell is the better QB. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olive19 Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Ramsey has the best arm in the conference. Most coaches agree. He needs a coach that believes in him so he should be traded. Brunnell played a lot better than I thought he would cause I thought he was shot after last year...he has now hit a wall and we are 5-6 and done...PLAY THE KID!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 I don't know exactly what the specifics are, but the way the coaches view Ramsey and the way they view Arrington are clearly very similar. It's unclear how much of it is performance, and much is personal. In Arrington's case, the steady decline of the defense and uninspiring play of Holdman forced them to finally put him on the field. That happened last year with Ramsey, but so far this year it hasn't. I think really it comes down to the coaches being determined only to let players on the field who do EXACTLY what they're told every second they're out there. I think that's the common denominator. They will put a more talented player on the bench if they don't think that player is doing what they're told. I also think it has to do with the coaches forming an opinion of a player very early on, and then keeping that bias against them no matter what other circumstances may be involved. This is all guesswork on my part, but it's the best I can read from what little gets said in public. It should be noted that one of the accomplishments Gibbs gets noted for most often-- winning three SBs with three different QBs-- probably demonstrates the fact that Gibbs has no patience for young QBs. Either that or they were very poor in selecting them, because the one thing Gibbs never had was a top level QB. Everybody thought when he came back that Ramsey was going to be that guy, but who knows what happened. Nobody knows except Joe Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akorn22 Posted November 29, 2005 Author Share Posted November 29, 2005 Dude,You really have to learn when to use apostrophes instead of semi-colons. HAHA sorry dude. All my friends yell at me for this too. THat one extra key takes too much effort to reach. HAHA BUt seriously, i mean i didn;t intend for this post to be a big ordeal. All I wanted was to hear want som ppl thought about why gibbs did what he did to ramsey but brunell's fumbles have cost us games. I mean we've kept every game close, and a few less brunell fumbes would have won us some games. BTW i'm trying to find the link to the press conference where gibbs talks about not tolerating turnovers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOYNTONBEACHSKINSFAN Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 THere is something about Gibbs that I've asked myself and other many times. Yet to this day, I have not gotten an answer. Think back to September 12th 2005. That was the day GIbbs decided to bench Ramsey for the season and start Brunell. It was also the day Brown was cut. Gibbs was asked why he benched Ramsey and cut Brown. Gibbs replied "I will not tolerate turnovers this season" (referring to Brown's kickoff funble and Ramsey's interception and fumble) So the thing i've been wondering is why does gibbs use turnovers as n excuse to bench ramsey but he seems to not care when brunell fumbes 3 times a game. Why is gibbs being hypocritical in that situation? GIbbs is obviously playing favorites here. If he TRULY is not toleration turnovers this year then Brunell and Portis both wouldn;t be playing. Brunell and portis are the worst ball handlers i've ever seen. Brunell fumbles every time a defender touches his jersey. I think that the little "love fest" going on here in Redskins Park is what is really hurting us. so the answer to our problems is starting patrick ramsey? is this your 1 st season watchin the skins? every time ramsey drops back you have to hold your breath! for every gorgous pass he trows he throws 5 poor ones. he is 2 erratic to be a strating qb wake up this guy blows big time he had his chance last year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoForIt Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Because Ramsey throws 3 interceptions a game and holds on to the ball way too long. Brunell has put us in position to win the last 3 games and the defense gave up the lead, plus a holding penalty killed us last week. We win that charger game if it wasnt for that holding penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmiJo Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 THere is something about Gibbs that I've asked myself and other many times. Yet to this day, I have not gotten an answer. Think back to September 12th 2005. That was the day GIbbs decided to bench Ramsey for the season and start Brunell. It was also the day Brown was cut. Gibbs was asked why he benched Ramsey and cut Brown. Gibbs replied "I will not tolerate turnovers this season" (referring to Brown's kickoff funble and Ramsey's interception and fumble) So the thing i've been wondering is why does gibbs use turnovers as n excuse to bench ramsey but he seems to not care when brunell fumbes 3 times a game. Why is gibbs being hypocritical in that situation? GIbbs is obviously playing favorites here. If he TRULY is not toleration turnovers this year then Brunell and Portis both wouldn;t be playing. Brunell and portis are the worst ball handlers i've ever seen. Brunell fumbles every time a defender touches his jersey. I think that the little "love fest" going on here in Redskins Park is what is really hurting us. That answer is incorrect. The Brunell fumbles can be attributed to poor protection by the line. Brunell is trying to make things happen in these instances. It is always a close game (do we play any other kind?) when we are behind and trying to make something happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3CardMonte Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Acctually Gibbs said he benched Ramsey because he had a gut feeling That is what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor ToughLove Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 THere is something about Gibbs that I've asked myself and other many times. Yet to this day, I have not gotten an answer. Think back to September 12th 2005. That was the day GIbbs decided to bench Ramsey for the season and start Brunell. It was also the day Brown was cut. Gibbs was asked why he benched Ramsey and cut Brown. Gibbs replied "I will not tolerate turnovers this season" (referring to Brown's kickoff funble and Ramsey's interception and fumble) So the thing i've been wondering is why does gibbs use turnovers as n excuse to bench ramsey but he seems to not care when brunell fumbes 3 times a game. Why is gibbs being hypocritical in that situation? GIbbs is obviously playing favorites here. If he TRULY is not toleration turnovers this year then Brunell and Portis both wouldn;t be playing. Brunell and portis are the worst ball handlers i've ever seen. Brunell fumbles every time a defender touches his jersey. I think that the little "love fest" going on here in Redskins Park is what is really hurting us. Ramsey coughed up the ball three series in a row. What is unfair about that benching again? Oh because Brunell coughed up 3 over a whole 1 game out of ten games, more than half a dozen games later?? Not very convincing. Sounds like you are the one "playing favorites" not Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkTotheHall Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Burnell has to be our starter. Yea he fumbles like crazy, but he gives the offense a sense of leadership. Ramsey never had that. Ramsey seem too scared at times. I liked the guy when we drafted him but the old ball coach messed him up bad. But our offense has to step it up. Gibbs play calling has to get alittle better too. Did u guys see the play he called on 3rd down in the 4th quater. its was 3rd and long why the hell would he call a play action. Not one defender bit on it. For the first time all year we actually didn't give up a turnover and we actually got 3 turnovers back, but we still lost. And can't we sign a punter better than frost. The guy keeps f**cking up in the 4th quarter. I don't remeber the chargers being pinned back in their own 20. But i still believe. Giants and Cowboy will be looking up at us came Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkTotheHall Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Brunell has put us in position to win the last 3 games and the defense gave up the lead, plus a holding penalty killed us last week. We win that charger game if it wasnt for that holding penalty. Come on now, are we really gonna blame this on the defense. If burnell didn't have so many three and outs in the second half maybe just maybe the defense could of came out refreashed. when you play as physical as they was playing they need time to rest. Out of those three pics how many points did we get. The defense also gave the ball to the offense in field goal range. Yes the defense shouldn't of gave up the tieing run to LT. Put damn we had shut him down all day. The offense has to eat up the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice of Reason Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 THere is something about Gibbs that I've asked myself and other many times. Yet to this day, I have not gotten an answer. Think back to September 12th 2005. That was the day GIbbs decided to bench Ramsey for the season and start Brunell. It was also the day Brown was cut. Gibbs was asked why he benched Ramsey and cut Brown. Gibbs replied "I will not tolerate turnovers this season" (referring to Brown's kickoff funble and Ramsey's interception and fumble) So the thing i've been wondering is why does gibbs use turnovers as n excuse to bench ramsey but he seems to not care when brunell fumbes 3 times a game. Why is gibbs being hypocritical in that situation? GIbbs is obviously playing favorites here. If he TRULY is not toleration turnovers this year then Brunell and Portis both wouldn;t be playing. Brunell and portis are the worst ball handlers i've ever seen. Brunell fumbles every time a defender touches his jersey. I think that the little "love fest" going on here in Redskins Park is what is really hurting us. The justification Gibbs used to bench Ramsey was not his frequent turnovers. To say he did is simply not true. Aside from that, Brunell is a relatively sure-handed quarterback. Brunell has thrown 5 interceptions in 11 games, while Ramsey threw 5 interceptions in nine quarters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 portis a bad ballhandler...im not really sure where you got that from but on the other hand brunell does fumble A LOT but gibbs is gonna go with the veteran if he thinks he is even close to as good as the other guy thats usually just the way he goes...part of it is the protection but brunell does have some serious ball handling problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinFromNepal Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 THere is something about Gibbs that I've asked myself and other many times. Yet to this day, I have not gotten an answer. Think back to September 12th 2005. That was the day GIbbs decided to bench Ramsey for the season and start Brunell. It was also the day Brown was cut. Gibbs was asked why he benched Ramsey and cut Brown. Gibbs replied "I will not tolerate turnovers this season" (referring to Brown's kickoff funble and Ramsey's interception and fumble) So the thing i've been wondering is why does gibbs use turnovers as n excuse to bench ramsey but he seems to not care when brunell fumbes 3 times a game. Why is gibbs being hypocritical in that situation? GIbbs is obviously playing favorites here. If he TRULY is not toleration turnovers this year then Brunell and Portis both wouldn;t be playing. Brunell and portis are the worst ball handlers i've ever seen. Brunell fumbles every time a defender touches his jersey. I think that the little "love fest" going on here in Redskins Park is what is really hurting us. BUT THEN HE IS NO ONE TO TURN OVER NOW..... I hope he stays healthy unlike the entire team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Umm, isn't anybody going to call out the thread starter for his patently wrong Gibbs quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIDETHEWALRUS Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 QB will fumble the ball if protection breaks down and somebody hits him from the blind side. Most of Brunell fumbles can be attributed to poor blocking. A lot of his ints were tipped balls or missed calls (TB game). Do you really think PR would have turned the ball over less? No. But PR would have gained a lot more yards through the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Let's look at stats and decide who's better. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1032 http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302216 While I do admit that I get alarmed when Brunell runs with the ball not tucked, I would rather have his number of fumbles instead of the interceptions which Ramsey throws every game. Personally I like both QB's, I love seeing Mark become a virtual "renaissance man", while at the same time I felt kind of bad for Patrick that he lost his chance. Then again, didn't Steve Young sit behind Montana until about his 8th season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ball Coach Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Being a hypocrite is part of being a coach. For whatever reason, Gibbs has more faith in Brunell, so he is going to have more tolerance. Jimmy Johnson mentioned this topic on Sunday. He said if an average player would fall asleep in a meeting, he would be gone the next day. If Emmitt Smith fell asleep during a meeting, it would be naptime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsrevival Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Brunell sucks and Ramsey sucks. Brunell is just playing because Ramsey sucks more than Brunell. One day in the near future Jason Campbell will shock all of us and put the QB situation to rest... :point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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