Seahawks get rare NFL admission of ruling errors

[ArmchairRedskin]

Seahawks get rare NFL admission of ruling errors

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Aidoam3QWzPkXhnuiElSNM5DubYF?slug=ap-seahawks-officialsmistakes&prov=ap&type=lgns

By GREGG BELL, AP Sports Writer

November 28, 2005

KIRKLAND, Wash. (AP) -- The Seahawks received rare word from the NFL that referee Larry Nemmers erred Sunday on the New York Giants' two touchdowns in Seattle's 24-21 overtime victory.

"I had a conversation with the league, and there were mistakes that were made, which we felt at the time," said Seattle coach Mike Holmgren, one of eight men on the NFL competition committee that oversees rules and game operations.

The NFL said touchdown catches made by Jeremy Shockey and Amani Toomer shouldn't have been ruled completions.

Coaches from around the league routinely submit disputed plays after games to NFL officiating chief Mike Pereira and his staff for review. They usually get a response midweek, though that response is usually never made public.

And, practically speaking, teams usually get nothing more than a "sorry" if the league agrees with a coach's contention, because results are not changed.

Sunday, with 1:14 left in the second quarter and the Seahawks leading 7-3, Shockey briefly caught a 7-yard pass from Eli Manning in the center of the end zone. Seattle safety Marquand Manuel then lowered his right shoulder into Shockey and forced the ball to the turf, though officials signaled a touchdown.

Jim Blackwood, the replay review official, buzzed Nemmers, an NFL game official for 21 years, and asked him to review the play to determine if Shockey had possession long enough to constitute a catch.

After a few moments, Nemmers emerged from under the hooded replay monitor beyond the sideline and declared Shockey did secure possession before losing the ball. The touchdown stood and the Giants took a 10-7 lead into halftime.

With 2:03 left in regulation, Toomer leaped high and caught another pass at the back of the end zone. Toomer got his left foot down inside the end line and then appeared to drag the toes of his right shoe into his left as it hit the turf.

At least that's what game officials concluded on the field -- and what Nemmers concluded after reviewing Holmgren's challenge to that call.

That score, and the Shockey's subsequent 2-point conversion catch, tied it at 21 with 1:59 left.

Holmgren said he was told by game officials there was not enough indisputable visual evidence to overturn either touchdown.

"Look, I get excited about it, just like any coach would, especially if you think it might cost you a ball game. But it's a tough job," Holmgren said. "Officials have a tough job. They are honest guys doing the best they can.

"You hope replay would help, if everything would function properly. And I would say 99 percent of the time it does, it works.

"And then there's a couple times for whatever reason, it doesn't work."

Replay rules state a play must be reviewed before the next play begins and that only a replay official -- and not a coach -- can call for a review during the last two minutes of a half or the entire overtime period.

In overtime Sunday, Holmgren called timeout to give the press box replay review official more time to summon Nemmers for a review of Shockey's 16-yard reception on which he again lost the ball after initially grabbing it. Nemmers ruled Shockey did not maintain possession long enough for a catch, reversing the on-field call.

Holmgren said he was surprised he had to spend a timeout to give the replay official more time.

"It's like, OK, we're playing the game and those guys are upstairs doing whatever they are doing," Holmgren said. "Now we get to within the final 2-minute area (of a half) or when they are on, and I'm thinking they should be concentrating.

"So that was a little bit scary there. That should have been done a little sooner, in my opinion."

[Leonard Washington]

that shockey one was so easy, i couldn't believe they missed it--even with a replay. i don't recall the toomer one.

[Westbrook36]

The NFL continueing the trend of giving NY every chance to be a Manning/Manning SB goes on for another week....

[HeHateMe]

The NFL continueing the trend of giving NY every chance to be a Manning/Manning SB goes on for another week....

Westbrook36 saying the smartest thing I've heard in a while.

[JerseyGator]

Marquand Manuel, a Gator alum, was the one on coverage for both calls. As usual the refs side with the Michigan and Miami players. You would think that stuff would end after college.

[slinky]

And the NFL gives us a huge dish of crap when we submit things for review. We have deserved no less than 7-8 public appologies from the league in the last 2 years. And we have had NONE.

[BlueTalon]

that shockey one was so easy, i couldn't believe they missed it--even with a replay. i don't recall the toomer one.

It looked to me like Toomer's left foot was on the ground inbounds, and then it dragged out of bounds before the right foot touched the ground.

An excerpt from the Seattle PI:

And please, no whining about this one from the New York media. These follies were the makeup call for the 1998 phantom touchdown by Jets quarterback Vinny Testaverde, which cost the Seahawks a crucial game.

(Note to fans of irony: The officiating crew Sunday included Phil Luckett, who was the lead official in 1998 that made maybe the worst call in Seahawks history. He no longer must live among the undead.)

The call in question awarded a TD to the Jets because the ref thought Vinny's head was the football -- his head crossed the plane, the ball never made it... and the call was so bad that it prompted the NFL to re-adopt instant replay.

[bubba9497]

one of eight men on the NFL competition committee that oversees rules and game operations.

hmmmm wonder if that made a difference in the league anouncing the errors?

:laugh:

but hey the refs don't make mistakes..( even with replay to help them), that can decide the outcome of the game..... Holgrem is just a whiney little so & so. Grow a sack, and get over it Chubby.

Funny no one in the media is laughing at him complaining like they did Gibbs.

[dreamingwolf]

actually I think the only reason they apollogized was cause the seahawks won, no way they would have acknowledged the error if they successfully changed the out come of the game.

[jrockster21]

hmmmm wonder if that made a difference in the league anouncing the errors?

:laugh:

but hey the refs don't make mistakes..( even with replay to help them), that can decide the outcome of the game..... Holgrem is just a whiney little so & so. Grow a sack, and get over it Chubby.

Funny no one in the media is laughing at him complaining like they did Gibbs.

Yeah, it seems like the media is patting ol' Holmgren on the back for his contention of referee calls, but if Gibbs does it, that whiny old man should shut his pie-hole. What a bunch of hacks the sports media is. We've gone through three weeks of the worst calls I've ever seen, and nothing.

At least its good to see its not only the Skins. I didn't see either play, so I can't really comment, but if there is this kind of controversy, I'm of the opinion that the refs are wrong. Because, they usually are. Bastages.

[jrockster21]

actually I think the only reason they apollogized was cause the seahawks won, no way they would have acknowledged the error if they successfully changed the out come of the game.

Good point...if the Skins are 8-3, where they're supposed to be, the officials would have given us 4 or 5 apologies by now. Just goes to show you that you can't depend on the official making the right call!!! :mad:

[tr1]

The NFL continueing the trend of giving NY every chance to be a Manning/Manning SB goes on for another week....

You're right. NFL dream matchup...whatever the cost.

[DCMONEY]

Sorry if this has been posted already

NFL: Officials wrong on two TD calls for GiantsAssociated Press

KIRKLAND, Wash. -- The Seahawks received rare word from the NFL that referee Larry Nemmers erred Sunday on the New York Giants' two touchdowns in Seattle's 24-21 overtime victory.

"I had a conversation with the league, and there were mistakes that were made, which we felt at the time," said Seattle coach Mike Holmgren, one of eight men on the NFL competition committee that oversees rules and game operations.

The NFL said touchdown catches made by Jeremy Shockey and Amani Toomer shouldn't have been ruled completions.

Coaches from around the league routinely submit disputed plays after games to NFL officiating chief Mike Pereira and his staff for review. They usually get a response midweek, though that response is usually never made public.

And, practically speaking, teams usually get nothing more than a "sorry" if the league agrees with a coach's contention, because results are not changed.

Sunday, with 1:14 left in the second quarter and the Seahawks leading 7-3, Shockey briefly caught a 7-yard pass from Eli Manning in the center of the end zone. Seattle safety Marquand Manuel then lowered his right shoulder into Shockey and forced the ball to the turf, though officials signaled a touchdown.

Jim Blackwood, the replay review official, buzzed Nemmers, an NFL game official for 21 years, and asked him to review the play to determine if Shockey had possession long enough to constitute a catch.

After a few moments, Nemmers emerged from under the hooded replay monitor beyond the sideline and declared Shockey did secure possession before losing the ball. The touchdown stood and the Giants took a 10-7 lead into halftime.

With 2:03 left in regulation, Toomer leaped high and caught another pass at the back of the end zone. Toomer got his left foot down inside the end line and then appeared to drag the toes of his right shoe into his left as it hit the turf.

At least that's what game officials concluded on the field -- and what Nemmers concluded after reviewing Holmgren's challenge to that call.

That score, and the Shockey's subsequent 2-point conversion catch, tied it at 21 with 1:59 left.

Holmgren said he was told by game officials there was not enough indisputable visual evidence to overturn either touchdown.

"Look, I get excited about it, just like any coach would, especially if you think it might cost you a ball game. But it's a tough job," Holmgren said. "Officials have a tough job. They are honest guys doing the best they can.

"You hope replay would help, if everything would function properly. And I would say 99 percent of the time it does, it works.

"And then there's a couple times for whatever reason, it doesn't work."

Replay rules state a play must be reviewed before the next play begins and that only a replay official -- and not a coach -- can call for a review during the last two minutes of a half or the entire overtime period.

In overtime Sunday, Holmgren called timeout to give the press box replay review official more time to summon Nemmers for a review of Shockey's 16-yard reception on which he again lost the ball after initially grabbing it. Nemmers ruled Shockey did not maintain possession long enough for a catch, reversing the on-field call.

Holmgren said he was surprised he had to spend a timeout to give the replay official more time.

"It's like, OK, we're playing the game and those guys are upstairs doing whatever they are doing," Holmgren said. "Now we get to within the final 2-minute area (of a half) or when they are on, and I'm thinking they should be concentrating.

"So that was a little bit scary there. That should have been done a little sooner, in my opinion."

I say junk instant replay and just go with the ref's ruling. I say this because when you have the modern technology to get it right and still get it wrong it makes you as a fan that more mad when they get the call wrong on your team. I could live with a wrong call by the naked eye but to have proof and still get it wrong is disturbing. The Seahawks on their behalf luckily won it themselves no thanks to the refs The Skins to me over the years have gotten more calls against them than for them in the case of instant replay. I just want the correct call is all

[Thiebear]

The replay official should get remedial training at best.

He screwed up on 100% of his calls that day:

Getting two wrong, and Not paying attention with 2 minutes to go. Costing Seattle all 3 of their time outs, and maybe 14 points depending on resulting plays. Thats a HUGE hole to dig out of.

Thats just crazy.

[DCMONEY]

The replay official should get remedial training at best.

He screwed up on 100% of his calls that day:

Getting two wrong, and Not paying attention with 2 minutes to go. Costing Seattle all 3 of their time outs, and maybe 14 points depending on resulting plays. Thats a HUGE hole to dig out of.

Thats just crazy.

I mean some calls are obviously right in their face. I thought the early Shockey TD was definitely incomplete. The Amani Toomer one looked pretty close to me. But Shockey's early TD was definitely incomplete. I was like damn these refs are pretty bad. We as Skins fans have seen this for a few years now.

[EnFoRcEr_uPu]

Didn't Seattle win anyways? I guess the point I'm trying to make is that had Seattle lost on Sunday, they Head of Officials wouldn't have been so quick to say something as in the case with the skins.

[JimmiJo]

I started to post this story last night, as I was more than a little pissed.

But then I considered how in this case the team victimized by the refs won the game. Because calls like the Tampa game (much more egregious) cost us the game, and because they can do nothing once the game is over, the league would NEVER admit a bad call in that situation.

Sucks.

However, I wonder if Gibbs being so vocal this year about the refs may have inspired the league to come out and admit one or two.

[RabidFan]

Have we ever heard from the Refs about the Allstott TD or the other vids we submitted from that game or the Lamont Jordan fumble in the raiders game?

[Mark]

Deleted by Mark. Sorry for double-posting.

[DB44]

"Look, I get excited about it, just like any coach would, especially if you think it might cost you a ball game. But it's a tough job," Holmgren said. "Officials have a tough job. They are honest guys doing the best they can.

"You hope replay would help, if everything would function properly. And I would say 99 percent of the time it does, it works.

"And then there's a couple times for whatever reason, it doesn't work."

"So that was a little bit scary there. That should have been done a little sooner, in my opinion."

[/b]

After reading Holmgren's quotes, he should be in politics. The acusations through compliments. Watch out Mike, if you were Joe Gibbs you would recieve a fine.

[Jumbo]

Yeh, you shoulda been here in Hawk land during those replays. I actually had the guys around me who are locals but know I'm a Redskin fan (everybody here does ) and a couple of 'em turned to me and said "isn't this the kind of crap that happens to you guys a lot?" :laugh:

[DCMONEY]

Yeh, you shoulda been here in Hawk land during those replays. I actually had the guys around me who are locals but know I'm a Redskin fan (everybody here does ) and a couple of 'em turned to me and said "isn't this the kind of crap that happens to you guys a lot?" :laugh:

Yeah, it seems it happens so much though.

[Henry]

Holmgren's such a whiner.

[SonnyRules]

Didn't Seattle win anyways? I guess the point I'm trying to make is that had Seattle lost on Sunday, they Head of Officials wouldn't have been so quick to say something as in the case with the skins.

Bingo; we have a winner!!! :applause:

[Dirtbag 28]

I say take out that screwy "down by contact" rule or "blown dead" rule. Both give the mystery men a little control of the game. The reffs do suck this year, like that Dallas vs. Denver game. It only took them forever to call plays.

Hey NFL, fine this, THE REFS SUCK THIS YEAR. REFS ARE MAKING MYSTERY CALLS!!!:mad: