Poll: Anyone Still with Ramsey?

[footballhenry]

I really didn't think that we had this many 'Flip-Flop' Redskin fans. Its as if any decision the team or Gibbs makes should be applauded and praised. Thats not the way it works. Of course Gibbs knows more than any of us can even dream of knowing but the man is still human. Some of you act as if Gibbs is God, and it really sickens me. In my honest opinion he is one of the perhaps two or three greatest coaches in all of football, ever. That still doesn't mean that he can't be wrong or make mistakes. He was wrong for getting Brunell, and he was worse for sticking with Brunell through half of last season. The way this organization has treated Ramsey is shameful. Look at Texans, Lions, Bengals, etc. and see how they are treating their young QB's even when they perform vastly below expectations. Its because they know it takes time for young QB's to perform well in this league. I challenge any true objective, knowledgable, football fan to explain to me how Ramsey has already been given his 'chance' as so many seem to spout.

The fact that Gibbs is Gibbs gives him that much more credibility and for that we all give him the benefit of the doubt. However he screwed Ramsey over, period. I mean good grief guys, he gave him THREE series and yanked him after he got INJURED. Thats pretty low if you ask me. If I was Ramsey I wouldn't want to be a Redskin either anymore, not after the way hes been treated here. Especially by some of the 'fans' here calling for him to be traded, 'he sucks', etc, etc...

Even after my rant, I still hope Brunell can prove me wrong bc if he does that must mean well be winning football games.

[#1SkinsFan]

obviously brunell, he seems like he had a better off season and did fairly well in the preseason. he is showing that he can still play how he used to and that he still has talent. i'ma go with him.

[Xameil]

blah blah blah he treated Ramsey bad...it wasn't fair wahhhh...

This is Pro sports...you screw up you sit..who said it was fair? In HS sports this happens, as it should. You screw up not once, not twice, but multiple times, you are benched. I think it sends the right message to all of them. including the pre-season 7 ints...if I were Gibbs, I'd be a tad gun-shy using Ramsey too.

[gonefishing]

Read that last post again sports fans. This IS "Pro Sports.:point2sky " Just ask Rod 50/50 Gardner.

[illone]

I really didn't think that we had this many 'Flip-Flop' Redskin fans. Its as if any decision the team or Gibbs makes should be applauded and praised. Thats not the way it works. Of course Gibbs knows more than any of us can even dream of knowing but the man is still human. Some of you act as if Gibbs is God, and it really sickens me. In my honest opinion he is one of the perhaps two or three greatest coaches in all of football, ever. That still doesn't mean that he can't be wrong or make mistakes. He was wrong for getting Brunell, and he was worse for sticking with Brunell through half of last season. The way this organization has treated Ramsey is shameful. Look at Texans, Lions, Bengals, etc. and see how they are treating their young QB's even when they perform vastly below expectations. Its because they know it takes time for young QB's to perform well in this league. I challenge any true objective, knowledgable, football fan to explain to me how Ramsey has already been given his 'chance' as so many seem to spout.

The fact that Gibbs is Gibbs gives him that much more credibility and for that we all give him the benefit of the doubt. However he screwed Ramsey over, period. I mean good grief guys, he gave him THREE series and yanked him after he got INJURED. Thats pretty low if you ask me. If I was Ramsey I wouldn't want to be a Redskin either anymore, not after the way hes been treated here. Especially by some of the 'fans' here calling for him to be traded, 'he sucks', etc, etc...

Even after my rant, I still hope Brunell can prove me wrong bc if he does that must mean well be winning football games.

You are right, Gibbs is human. The point where Gibbs made the mistake was naming Ramsey the starter before the season began. Most here have agreed that competition breeds excellence, so why not have competition at your most crucial position on offense?

Ramsey did not earn the position, so why should he lead us?

Why, because you THINK Ramsey is better?

This isn't about blind faith for Gibbs, it's about knowing he is making the right choice for the TEAM and not one player. Ramsey had the job and he lost it. He did that, nobody else. If you want to say he did not get a fair shake then at least admit that had he played well he would have not been yanked.

Out of curiosity why do you apologize for Ramsey so much?

Let's look back to last year, week 2 the Giants game. Ramsey comes in to the game in relief of an injured Mark Brunell. He goes on to throw 3 INT's and we lose the game.

Situations like this make me wonder... Why does Brunell not get the same respect and admiration that Ramsey does?! Brunell came in for an injured Ramsey, we WIN the game against Chicago, then we WIN in Dallas yet people are still calling for Ramsey?

It doesn't make sense to me.

Please explain.

[OldTownFan]

Ok, ok we all saw the Redskins Dramtic win, And "Scott Brunell" make two great passes.. And of Course Like i thought, Everyone now is saying....Oh, Ramsey is a bum and he couldn't win that game and Wow is MB soo good now... But not me. I am Offically Still on The RAMSEY bus.

Call me Dumb or whatever I still stick by Ramsey. That is who I want to see in the Redskins games... Sorry i am just not a Brunell Fan.. I must say I "like" MB more then last year at last he gave a me a great win to Remember for a long time..

But ask yoursleves... Would it have been such a good win, if he Didn't Absoultey SUCK for the first 55 min's. I have been a Redskin fan since 1994, So i have seen my fair share of games. I have NEVER seen Ramsey suck as bad as MB did in the first 55 min's of that Dallas Cowboy game.

Turnovers or not Ramsey is more Exciting to watch and I still belevie he gives the best chance to win..

So is Anyone on the RAMSEY bus??

As am I. It may turn out that the worst possible thing that could have happened to the Redskins was Mark Brunell winning two games by doing two passes next to nothing. Now, we could end up playing mediocre football, and Gibbs will now have all the excuses he needs to leave this guy in the game for the rest of the season.

[Lil Kenzo]

Look...I don't care who starts. As long as we are winning, it does not matter.

[hail2skins]

People bring up the Giants game last year where Patrick looked horrendous in throwing the INTs, and that game has to be one that scared the living crap out of Gibbs and which made him wait so long to pull Brunell. But: 1) In order to throw those INTs in the red zone, Ramsey at least moved us down the field, which is more than you can say for Brunell last year; 2) I remember a QB named Mark Rypien who threw three red-zone INTs in a playoff game in San Francisco in early 1991. The next year Rypien was Super Bowl MVP.

I'd prefer to have Ramsey in there but we'll see if the end of the Dallas game will spark the offense under MB. I agree with footballhenry.....the first game that we lose and the offense sucks, you're gonna see more flip-flopping here than occurs at a political convention.

[helluvaskinsfan]

ramsey showed he's tough,but has never been consistent,we need someone better than that if we ever wanna get anywhere,hes definitly a good back-up,i dont feel brunell played well last year,but he's looked better than ramseythis year

[helluvaskinsfan]

I really didn't think that we had this many 'Flip-Flop' Redskin fans. Its as if any decision the team or Gibbs makes should be applauded and praised. Thats not the way it works. Of course Gibbs knows more than any of us can even dream of knowing but the man is still human. Some of you act as if Gibbs is God, and it really sickens me. In my honest opinion he is one of the perhaps two or three greatest coaches in all of football, ever. That still doesn't mean that he can't be wrong or make mistakes. He was wrong for getting Brunell, and he was worse for sticking with Brunell through half of last season. The way this organization has treated Ramsey is shameful. Look at Texans, Lions, Bengals, etc. and see how they are treating their young QB's even when they perform vastly below expectations. Its because they know it takes time for young QB's to perform well in this league. I challenge any true objective, knowledgable, football fan to explain to me how Ramsey has already been given his 'chance' as so many seem to spout.

The fact that Gibbs is Gibbs gives him that much more credibility and for that we all give him the benefit of the doubt. However he screwed Ramsey over, period. I mean good grief guys, he gave him THREE series and yanked him after he got INJURED. Thats pretty low if you ask me. If I was Ramsey I wouldn't want to be a Redskin either anymore, not after the way hes been treated here. Especially by some of the 'fans' here calling for him to be traded, 'he sucks', etc, etc...

Even after my rant, I still hope Brunell can prove me wrong bc if he does that must mean well be winning football games.

brunell looks better this year,[at least so far]and the reason people like me treat gibbs like god is because i'm old enough to remember his first go round,yeah,he can make mistakes,but its plain to see that brunell has played better this year,especially the pre-season,i thought he should have started brunell from day one

[Buck812]

blah blah blah he treated Ramsey bad...it wasn't fair wahhhh...

This is Pro sports...you screw up you sit..who said it was fair? In HS sports this happens, as it should. You screw up not once, not twice, but multiple times, you are benched. I think it sends the right message to all of them. including the pre-season 7 ints...if I were Gibbs, I'd be a tad gun-shy using Ramsey too.

Then why isnt he gun shy with Boonell????? God...Boonell is the absolute worst QB starting in the league unless the Jets could possibly be in worse shape then we are and I really dont see how.

[footballhenry]

Out of curiosity why do you apologize for Ramsey so much?

Let's look back to last year, week 2 the Giants game. Ramsey comes in to the game in relief of an injured Mark Brunell. He goes on to throw 3 INT's and we lose the game.

Situations like this make me wonder... Why does Brunell not get the same respect and admiration that Ramsey does?! Brunell came in for an injured Ramsey, we WIN the game against Chicago, then we WIN in Dallas yet people are still calling for Ramsey?

It doesn't make sense to me.

Please explain.

Is this a serious argument? Im not trying to denigrate your position but wow, I am surprised out of all the arguments you 'could' have produced that this one came to mind. Your using Ramsey's performance in relief at the beginning of last season as justification for him riding the bench this season, or at least attributing partly to his benching? Lets see, with Brunell we dont move the ball in that game and we go do Ramsey comes in after were down by alot and starts to 'move' the offense, that means he has to throw deeper and more often. Yes he made some bad throws but he also put us in a position to win near the end. You talk about that game is if Ramsey lost if for us but he wasn't the QB that fumbled the ball in the beginning of the second quarter giving the Giants a td score. Oh and Brunell also threw the pick right to Robbins that led to another Giants score I beleive. So enter Ramsey down 20-7. He brings us back, at least, yet its his fault we lost?

Hmmm...interesting logic here. So Brunell has had TWO good games as a Redskin, both against Dallas, both QB ratings in the mid 90's I beleive. Ramsey had THREE 100 QB rating performances in his last five starts last season. Hmmm, okay lets also not forget that Ramsey is only 26. Ahh, whatever...

This stuff has been rehashed ad nauseam (sp?). Lets just hope Brunell can perform 'adequately' against the Seahawks at least.

[Chris Lamb]

Try with Ramsey, Keep Brunell warm though. If Ramsey dosent get a chance then how will anyone know if he has what it takes to get the job done. But I also say that we cant risk the season by giving chances and coming up short (i.e. Kyle Boller of the Ravens).

[Diehard Otis]

I have firmly supported #11 since day one & have never wavered (even when he's looked Terrible!). That being said, let me also say this;

• I fully support any decision Coach Gibbs makes regarding our team. Of course I don't always agree, as in this case, but our head man is a living legend. Nuff said.
  
• #8, as far as I was concerned, was simply old & washed up, & that's why we got him for a song from Jacksonville. However, Monday Night was a huge character win for us & could propel the squad to bigger & better things this year. I am optimistic, although tentatively so.
  
• #11 has never got a fair shake under Coach Gibbs (I was very disappointed in Coach Gibbs with the way he benched him). But knowing the long odds against #8 finishing the season healthy, the mental state of #11 is still key!
  
• Lastly, I truly believe that when given the opportunity, #11 will shine! I believe he has the intangibles, the ability, the intelligence, & the necessary leadership skills to make a damn fine starting QB. But it doesn't look like that will likely happen for him in DC.
  

Of course, all that matters is that we WIN! If we go 10-6 (or better), Jeff George could be the QB & it wouldn't really matter, would it?

[RamsTheMan]

Ramsey is a playmaker. He has the ability to throw the ball and open things up on the offensive side of the ball.

Its slightly on the side of ridiculous to even side with 'Scott' because he played a meanlingless 55 minutes and a beautiful 5. Its been proven Scott is washed up. He got beat out by a rookie, and he had been out of the game a year when we signed him.

Jon Kitna would have been a better alternative.

Ramsey still deserves the start. I watched a piece on Rich Gannon the other day, and it showed how he just wanted the Trust of a Coach in him. If Ramsey could just get that trust, I'm sure he could perform well.

[Boss_Hogg]

I always will be a Ramsey supporter, any man who takes as much physical punishment as that guy did and still played his a REAL ball player in my book.

[six4g]

I can't beileve that I'm contributing to this thread. These things are like "crack", they just keep drawing you in even when you no there's no benefit to it.

I'm a Ramsey guy, however I'm a Skins fan first. That said, as long as we win, like most of you, I'll ride the wheels off the car that's steering this thing.

However, take away 5 glorious minutes, and this is 2004 all over again. Anyone noticed that under Brunnells guidence, this offense has yet to sniff the red-zone? Why is it that no one seems to make a big deal about the INT that MB threw? If PR throws the same INT there would be 17 threads about how bad a throw it was.

Gibbs has made the call that PR's not his QB, but what happens as we travel back down the road of 2004. The defense has played lights out in shutting down the GURLZ and DA BEARS, but can we rely on that for 16 games. Some would say yes, the Ravens used that formula to win a SB. I'm guessing that Coach is hoping that MB is his Trent Dilfer. Unfortunately, I think he's got the wrong idea. Portis is not J Lewis and we can't pound the ball down the other teams throat like that Ravens squad.

Giving Coach credit in realizing that we need to stretch the field; 55 minutes against Dallas says that MB's not the guy to do that. Doesn't this sound familiar to any of you Brunnell supporters? Game after game of this team not scoring over 20 points. It killed us last year until PR, and it'll kill us again this year. Not to mention wasting the efforts of one of the best defenses that the Capital has ever seen.( "Capital Defense"- think we've used it before, but I still love the sound of it.)

'Hawks defense should not be able to hold us under 24 points. However I'm a pessimist so here's my guess for Sunday:

16-14 Skins win ( that's 3FG's and 1TD)

If we score 3 offensive TD's I'm done bashing Brunnell. If not............it'll be a loooooooooong season.

All I ask for is one solid game from start to finish with the O moving the ball; just one game, Mark!

[skinpride1]

:logo: I want what ever will get us the wins!!!!I will go with Brunell for now!!Sure I want to see better play from Brunell.The first place to start!! Get rid of the twenty step drops from snap.What in the world is that?Drop back twenty roll left and get sacked!!!Stay in the pocket Brunell and limit the steps to seven.I think the old man can still play but he has to get rid of his old habits.

[footballhenry]

Yeah, some really really good posts in here. GREAT piece six4g.

[footballhenry]

Doesnt all this talk though get you excited about the game!!!! #e

[Leonard Washington]

looks like the night owls are making thier move for broonell

[JimmiJo]

looks like the night owls are making thier move for broonell

I told you back on page two what it would end up like.

[illone]

For all you guys who still want to blame our offense (mainly Brunell) for not putting us in the red-zone AND in proper scoring position, please read this thread: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117247

Interesting take on things but I'm sure most of you missed it.

[Oldfan]

illone wrote... For all you guys who still want to blame our offense (mainly Brunell) for not putting us in the red-zone AND in proper scoring position, please read this thread: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117247

Interesting take on things but I'm sure most of you missed it.

I can't speak for all fans who think our offense stinks, but I previously read that thread and came to the conclusion that the argument would be considered valid only by fans lacking a firm grasp of statistics or those who are reaching for excuses out of loyalty to a revered coach.

In order to measure a factor, it must first be isolated from all other factors. A poor starting field position average might be caused by poor special teams play, poor defensive play, by poor offensive play on the previous series, or a combination of the three.

Essentially, you are suggesting that we deny what we saw with our own eyes in favor of a two-game sample of a useless statistic.

Here's a stat that I find interesting. In 29 games for Denver, Clinton Portis racked up 29 TDs. In 17 games for us, he has 5. Who gets the blame for that severe dropoff?

I think Brunell, Ramsey, and Portis would all have better performance stats in an aggressive and innovative offensive scheme.

[fansince62]

Interesting argument OldFan....as one with substantial experience, at one time, with econometrics.....I would aver that the problem is that your mnotion of offensive efficiency/effectiveness only includes what you see with your eyes. There are a whole slew of relevant variables that you DO NOT see. That has been the argument all along.