Regarding those who toss personal insults at Joe Gibbs (mega-merge)

[G-Prime]

Lets talk about loyalty for a moment and let me start by saying I agree with you I think PR has been loyal to the club when when a lot of guys would have bolted by now. But let me ask you this where does your loyalty lie is it with the Player or the team. Because what I´m sick of is reading all these post saying that Coach Gibbs lied to Ramsey, which is totally untrue. He said that Patrick would be the starter and he started. Thats it! plain and simple. Patrick on the other hand has not shown any evidence that he can run this offense the way Gibbs wants it to be run, and thats mistake free or as close as possible. Now I personally think Patrick is a more exciting player than Brunell but is he a better system fit for Gibbs? I´ll leave that one for the coach to decide on.

With team..

Not with Ramsey, Brunell or Gibbs. I don't care if Vince Lambardi himself came back from the dead and coached this team. I'm still a skins fan. I look for Brunell to manage the game conservatively against Dallas.

Sad thing is, managing a game conservatively works in the 4th quarter when your protecting the lead.. It doesn't work in the first quarter when your still trying to win.

[TODD]

But yet somehow hes in the top ten all time in passer rating. Somehow he took an expansion team deep into the playoffs. These are all things Mr. Interception have done right? He was hurt bad last year and never used it as an excuse, so he has character as well. The few situations Ramsey has been in we have heard trade demands.

Okay, well I think we'd all sure as hell change our tune if Mark was still in HIS PRIME!!!! C'mon! Do you really think he's the same Mark Brunell he was in 2002? He's played 12 games in two years. He'll be 35 next week. He amassed the bulk of his stats in the late 90's. If we went by this logic, bring back friggin' Deion (I'm sure the Ravens would give him up after Sunday Night), bring back friggin' Dana Stubblefield (defensive player of the year in 1994... DUH!), and bring back Terry Allen.

Give me a break!!

[TODD]

. The last time I checked the only thing that mattered was a win.

And last year, he did it 30% of the time against a very, very (very) soft schedule. Not acceptable.

[TODD]

It cant be any worse then killing a drive with a red zone pick can it?

Atleast he gets the damn ball down there and makes things happen for the team. You play to win, not to NOT lose.

[TODD]

Somehow he took an expansion team deep into the playoffs.

Are. You. Kidding. Me.

?????????????????????????????

[myzhi]

Beginning to think PR got played. If he wasn't name the "main man" or told QB competition is open again any point before the 1st game, does anything think he would have came back this year?

Deep down, Joe knows MB going to get hurt at some point, and thus, need a decent / cheap backup. Why look further then your bench. The Rookie won't cut it yet. Thus, string PR along to satisfy everyone, but at right time, pull the switch. PR can't do / demand crap while we are in season. PR will be gone next year, but that's where Campbell comes in.

[Skins24]

Sorry, this isn´t "last year". and I think everyone will agree here was a pretty good QB until arriving to washington last year....

In the last 16 games Brunell has played (dating back to 2002). He has surpassed 125 yards passing only 5 times. He clearly isn't on the upswing of his career. One of the goals coming into this year, I thought, was to improve our passing game. We even got two new recievers to stretch out the field.

There is no reason to believe that our passing offense will improve under Brunell.

[bobzmuda]

Preseason is NOT a true test of skill. Offenses are toned down and Brunell was going up against backups and willbecuts. Brunell's mechanics look better and he's got a little zip on the ball in preseason.. I didn't see it Sunday however.

If Preseason is not a TRUE test of skill, what does that say about PR who averaged about 2 turnovers per 60 minutes of gametime in the preseason? That he'd turn it over more in the regular season?

PR's been getting most of the time with the first team in practice.. Now that Mark will be getting that time, he could come out against Dallas and light it up. I don't think so though, his arm just looks really weak.. We have these speedy receivers to get the ball down field and we put in a guy, to no fault of his own, can't get them the ball.

I guess you didn't get to see the pre-season games. Brunell was able to get the ball downfield accurately much more than Ramsey. Brunell looked night and day from last year and much better than Ramsey, regardless of who was catching the ball (or attempting to catch the ball-sup Antonio) or blocking.

[LiveStrongSkins]

Preseason is NOT a true test of skill. Offenses are toned down and Brunell was going up against backups and willbecuts. Brunell's mechanics look better and he's got a little zip on the ball in preseason.. I didn't see it Sunday however.

PR's been getting most of the time with the first team in practice.. Now that Mark will be getting that time, he could come out against Dallas and light it up. I don't think so though, his arm just looks really weak.. We have these speedy receivers to get the ball down field and we put in a guy, to no fault of his own, can't get them the ball.

Look no one is trying to attack you. All im saying is yes we can all agree Brunell had a bad year last year. But did you really think his arm looked that weak when he hit that pass to Cooley or when he threw the ball to Moss 15 yards as we was going backwards and being pressured. The guy can get the job done and I just think we should support him. He's the starting QB now.

[alli]

With team..

Not with Ramsey, Brunell or Gibbs. I don't care if Vince Lambardi himself came back from the dead and coached this team. I'm still a skins fan. I look for Brunell to manage the game conservatively against Dallas.

Sad thing is, managing a game conservatively works in the 4th quarter when your protecting the lead.. It doesn't work in the first quarter when your still trying to win.

Last year was conservative definitly. The coaching staff has even admit it. Let´s see how the next game fairs out. This was after all a pretty good defense the skins were up against.

But you have to admit the o-line looks better and so does Portis

Gothimus, after Dallas if it still looks conservative, I´ll fess up.

:dallasuck

[TODD]

I guess you didn't get to see the pre-season games. Brunell was able to get the ball downfield accurately much more than Ramsey. Brunell looked night and day from last year and much better than Ramsey, regardless of who was catching the ball (or attempting to catch the ball-sup Antonio) or blocking.

You look a lot better going up against Ravens backups than Chris McAlister and Samari Rolle. Goes for every team, and every game in the preseason.

[LiveStrongSkins]

Okay, well I think we'd all sure as hell change our tune if Mark was still in HIS PRIME!!!! C'mon! Do you really think he's the same Mark Brunell he was in 2002? He's played 12 games in two years. He'll be 35 next week. He amassed the bulk of his stats in the late 90's. If we went by this logic, bring back friggin' Deion (I'm sure the Ravens would give him up after Sunday Night), bring back friggin' Dana Stubblefield (defensive player of the year in 1994... DUH!), and bring back Terry Allen.

Give me a break!!

No, I know he isnt in his prime. But he has accomplished alot and still has alot of football left in him. Gannon did it, Trent Green is doing it, as well as plenty other of QB's. My problem is people are acting like Mark Brunell is the backup JV QB at your local high school. Meanwhile, they are talking up Ramsey and he hasnt done a damn thing since being here.

[alli]

In the last 16 games Brunell has played (dating back to 2002). He has surpassed 125 yards passing only 5 times. He clearly isn't on the upswing of his career. One of the goals coming into this year, I thought, was to improve our passing game. We even got two new recievers to stretch out the field.

There is no reason to believe that our passing offense will improve under Brunell.

Would you rather have the chance of having 2-3 turnovers a game with PR. because the stats are there concerning the chances of winning a game when being on the downside of the turnover ratio.

[Epistopheles]

Guys, neither of these QBs have shown he's good enough to be the starter. But I'll be cheering as hard as anyone for the Skins whoever is under center. I would like some wins, ESPECIALLY AGAINST DALLAS, sometime before we hand the team over to Campbell in (ideally) 07 or 08.

[zoony]

It's funny that a lot of you clowns who claim "Gibbs is washed up" base this on ..

1. Last year.

We stunk for a variety of reasons, but one of the overriding things that happens when a team is on a coaching carousel is whoever takes over has to play with a bunch of guys drafted by other people.

In our case, we have guys drafted for teams built mostly by Marty Schottenheimer and Steve Spurrier,, two philosophies that are as different as night and day.

So of course, it stands to reason Gibbs will be able to mold that motley bunch into a champ overnight,, or some would have me believe.

and 2.

This decision on Ramsey.

It also seems to me that the overwhelming number of people posting this kind of drivel are people who are barely old enough to remember Gibbs ever coaching a game prior to last year.

Anyway, the point is, YOU bozos claim Gibbs is done based on this very short window of what you've seen, yet you are the same clowns who are criticizing him for making a decision based on (what you believe) is a very limited opportunity for Ramsey.

So, tell me how much sense that makes? It's ok for you to have knee jerk reactions, but then you criticize him for doing (what you believe) is the same thing.

Nevermind Gibbs has been in attendance of Every Ramsey practice and play for nearly 2 full years now. That couldn't possibly factor into his thinking, now could it?

Nah, it's just easier to ***** and complain and pretend we know what we're talking about. Nothing makes me feel better than seeing some 22 yr old or 17 yr old dope pretending to know more about what is going on than Joe Gibbs.

Frankly, I think alot of you should turn in your playbooks and go hang out in Dallas.

No wonder our stadium is a haven for opposing fans.

Sell your tickets, you fair-weather ****s.

Get lost.

~Bang

Bang you are my hero, man. :notworthy :notworthy

[TODD]

No, I know he isnt in his prime. But he has accomplished alot and still has alot of football left in him. Gannon did it, Trent Green is doing it, as well as plenty other of QB's. My problem is people are acting like Mark Brunell is the backup JV QB at your local high school. Meanwhile, they are talking up Ramsey and he hasnt done a damn thing since being here.

LS,

You can't discount what Mark did last year. He played the worst 10 games of any QB in the NFL last year. Even if Brunell was slightly better, he would not be even CLOSE to being good enough to start on this team or any team. Mark has not given us any indication that he has a lot of football left.

Under Gibbs, Ramsey started games have left us with a 4-4 record. Brunell started games, we have gone 3-7. And Ramsey was subject to a much more difficult schedule. If I may quote you from this thread, the "only thing that matters is wins."

[TimFolk]

This is unreal. People bashing Gibbs is completely stupid right now. None of us are coaches. From Day 1 everyone on this site saw Gibbs does not want Ramsey as his starting QB. It is not Gibbs fault people have a love affair with Ramsey on this site. When are you going to realize that Ramsey was picked by Spurrier to throw the ball foolishly downfield in the one and done...oops i mean fun and gun. Gibbs cannot stand turnovers. Of coarse he is going to be politically correct and give Patrick his vote of confidence while he was the man. However, if you havent seen the writing on the wall on this one then you need help. The picks, fumbles, and un nessasary blind side hits from holding the ball too long are all things that we all know Gibbs hates. Stop acting surprised and stand up and support YOUR Redskins. Joe Gibbs doesnt have to answer to anyone. Brunell didnt play bad at all and he didnt demand that he play, stop bashing Brunell. Yall bash Gibbs and Brunell all you want, I'll be cheering louder then ever come monday night.

:notworthy :applause:

[LiveStrongSkins]

LS,

You can't discount what Mark did last year. He played the worst 10 games of any QB in the NFL last year. Even if Brunell was slightly better, he would not be even CLOSE to being good enough to start on this team or any team. Mark has not given us any indication that he has a lot of football left.

Under Gibbs, Ramsey started games have left us with a 4-4 record. Brunell started games, we have gone 3-7. And Ramsey was subject to a much more difficult schedule. If I may quote you from this thread, the "only thing that matters is wins."

TODD, I admit I have gotten pretty defensive in this thread. If I came off like that on you then I apologize. I actually like Ramsey, although I do believe he is severely turnover prone. My thing is, we really have no choice but to hope Brunell can regain his old form and give us a good season or two. I mean if we didnt, we would be wishing our own season down the drain. The whole Screw Ramsey/Screw Brunell thing is getting out of hand, and I admit I was guilty of it as well. It's just time to rally around Brunell instead of hoping he fails and bringing up the past.

[Sebowski]

Line forms here guys

I think you can be skeptical about Brunell, and still acknowledge the basic truth of what Brother Bang is saying.

Gibbs has proven himself again and again. No one, and I mean NO ONE else on this team has proven jack.

And that bill is a fact.

There is one other guy on this team that has proven a lot. A QB. MArk Brunell has proven he can no longer be counted on to manage an offense. He proved it last week, and he proved it in 8 weeks last year.

Another thing that Gibbs has proven is that for some reason he is obsessed with having Brunell succeed. I think his judgment is clouded.

[LiveStrongSkins]

There is one other guy on this team that has proven a lot. A QB. MArk Brunell has proven he can no longer be counted on to manage an offense. He proved it last week, and he proved it in 8 weeks last year.

Another thing that Gibbs has proven is that for some reason he is obsessed with having Brunell succeed. I think his judgment is clouded.

Huh? Dude he led us to three field goals and managed the game well with no turnovers. TODD, if you read this... this is what I'm talking about. It's ok to be mad about Ramsey not getting his shot, but to say Mark didnt manage the game well doesnt really make sense to me. He came through in the clutch with a big pass to Moss to keep the drive alive, and committed no turnovers. This is between Ramsey and Gibbs, but to me Mark Brunell absolutely did his job.

[Sebowski]

70 yards against the Bears with mostly real short fields is not managing the game well. Niether is 9 points, 6 of which were missable FGs. We got lucky we were playing the Bears. 28 teams in teh league would have beaten us last week with Brunell in there. I love the win, and am ecstatic to be 1-0, but I am not as optimistic about the season as I was one week ago.

[Clark84]

Consistency?

You mean like Ramsey's consitent ability to turn the ball over?

A Hypocrite and a liar?

You do realize that a football coach's job is to try to win games, right? Not protect feelings? If a guy isn't getting it done, he's got to go. The bottom line is the W, not some ideal of perfect harmony between players and coaches and fans.

Out of touch, eh? Looks to me like we have a dominant defense and a very powerful running game. Let's see,,, how many teams have ridden that recipe to the super bowl? Hmm.. I wonder.

What we need at this point is a game manager. Ramsey seems to have a hard time managing a game, unless you've seen something I haven't. We need a guy who won't throw INTs.. another thing Ramsey has a hard time doing.

Because Ramsey was drafted by Spurrier, a guy who never DID have a touch of pro football.. Gibbs is somehow obligated to give him the long rope?

I ask a simple question. Why? Simply because he SAID SO? This is football. Perform or be replaced.

When this team wins with it's outstanding defense and powerful running game, I expect you to give us either

A/ an apology thread

or B/ your resignation as a fan of the team.

Enough of this crap. Ramsey is a professional football player. It's his fourth year. He's a big boy. Coaches don't "lie" to football players. Every player that there is realizes his job is contingent on performance. If your performance is not up to snuff, you gotta go, plain and simple. Every starter in the NFL with few exception is playing with the knowledge that he can be replaced.

It's the nature of the game.

Enough of this "Gibbs is a liar" junk. Seriously,, pretend you know a little bit about how this game works.

~Bang

Awesome post Bang. I support either Brunell, Ramsey or whoever else plays QB. I want to win. As diehard fans we have supported the likes of Jeff George, John Friesz, Heath Shuler, Tony Banks and many more over the years. Why? Because we love the Redskins. I can't believe how many times I dreamed that Gibbs would come back and now that he is back people want to bash him. I trust in his judgment moreso than anyone on the outside looking in. I like Patrick, I want to see him do well here, and I cannot say I agreed with the quick hook but eventually those turnovers are going to get us in trouble. Not to say Brunell won't do it either but he is more careful with the ball.

[LiveStrongSkins]

70 yards against the Bears with mostly real short fields is not managing the game well. Niether is 9 points, 6 of which were missable FGs. We got lucky we were playing the Bears. 28 teams in teh league would have beaten us last week with Brunell in there. I love the win, and am ecstatic to be 1-0, but I am not as optimistic about the season as I was one week ago.

I think it is very unfortunate for Ramsey what happened. I can understand why people can be upset. I just dont see the point in certain people (not saying you) having to bash Brunell. He came in and did a good job against the Bears. I think that you still have alot to be optimistic about. Trent Dilfer wasnt a world beater and the Ravens just used his ability to manage the game properly and get the W's. We have an awesome defense and one of the best 1-2 RB combos in the league. We have wideouts who have great hands and great attitudes and a special teams unit that is much improved. :2cents:

[zoony]

You look a lot better going up against Ravens backups than Chris McAlister and Samari Rolle. Goes for every team, and every game in the preseason.

The point was made that Brunell did not have the armstrength.

BobZmuda dispelled that notion... Brunell was slinging it all over the field in the preseason.

Who is covering has nothing to do with armstrength... or am I missing something?

[terpfan44]

Were fans, not sheep. We don't have to agree with everything that this organization does, having an opinion is not a bad thing. You act like Brunell's never turned the ball over. (Flashback to Raven game last year, ring a bell?) How quickly people forget how bad he played last year. I bet half of you were calling for Brunells head as well. Gibbs is a hypocrite and a liar, it's just another stupid move by a organization that is out of touch with football. It's sad really, for a moment, I thought we had some complacency, but leave it to the skins to totally blow that out of the water. I know I shouldn't be typing, cause I'm pissed right now, but damn some consistency would be nice.

a liar and a hypocrite?..

you seem scorned..so name-calling is okay?..if pat moved the #1 offense to

more than the 2 paltry tds..since training began..your opinion

would seem rational..but it now sounds petty and child-like to me.