RunPortisRun Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by big z Ramsey has all the tools except touch, accuracy and the ability to make quick reads. Other than that? He's just like Tom Brady. That was pretty funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAVENS_SUCK_HUN Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by Califan007 What's the difference between touch and accuracy??... Ummmmm.......Touchdown passes, playoffs & Superbowls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by Califan007 What's the difference between touch and accuracy??... Accuracy is self-explanatory, but I always view touch as being able to actually deliver a ball more softly when it's thrown three yards than when it's thrown 20 yards. Ramsey does throw a hard ball and he throws the shorter passes just as hard as the longer ones, even though it's not necessary. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by ross3909 This may just be Pattens way of throwing a little confidence Patricks way. However, Casey Rabach and Clinton Portis both responded when asked what they found to be the biggest surprise in Minicamps was Patricks poise and confort in the huddle and making throws. They both mentioned that he showed strong leadership and confidence while taking control of the offense in practices. So I would not be surprised to see Patrick come out surprising people with his accuracy and leadership this year. He is a very smart guy with a great attitude and a strong desire to succeed. agreed. i think that people are really pushing ramsey, and i hope he answers all the nay sayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by GAVENS_STINK_HUN Ummmmm.......Touchdown passes, playoffs & Superbowls? You'll excuse me while I move on to posts which actually attempt to give a someone intelligent response...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halter91 Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Same thing was said a few years ago when Cole's came to town. Reminded him of Pennington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Accuracy is self-explanatory, but I always view touch as being able to actually deliver a ball more softly when it's thrown three yards than when it's thrown 20 yards. Ramsey does throw a hard ball and he throws the shorter passes just as hard as the longer ones, even though it's not necessary. Nick So, does the term "touch" apply to passes thrown 40 or 50 yards??...Seriously, only trying to understand the difference.. I always saw "touch" as being defined as a QBs ability to accurately place his passes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAVENS_SUCK_HUN Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Accuracy is self-explanatory, but I always view touch as being able to actually deliver a ball more softly when it's thrown three yards than when it's thrown 20 yards. Ramsey does throw a hard ball and he throws the shorter passes just as hard as the longer ones, even though it's not necessary. Nick Agreed. But, look were the short ball got us last year. Gibbs is changing. LOOK OUT FOR THE LONG BALL THIS YEAR!! PREDICTION: We will sweep the Eagles this year. REASON: Eagles don't have hands, they have talons. Redksins have arms, legs, bows and arrows. It's a simple scientific fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by Califan007 So, does the term "touch" apply to passes thrown 40 or 50 yards??...Seriously, only trying to understand the difference.. I always saw "touch" as being defined as a QBs ability to accurately place his passes... I guess it depends on the QB. I can see the QB's accuracy sufferring if he has to use poor form to get a harder touch on his passes. OTOH, an NFL-level QB shouldn't have such problems. The main questions about Ramsey's arm have been his accuracy on the long throws and his touch on the short ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaBeachSkinzFan Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by skinsfan93 Of course, Patten is going to say good things about his starting QB....otherwise the balls won't be coming his way I don't see how anyone can compare Ramsey to Brady. They are entirely different QB's. One is mobile, has smarts, has touch and has shown the ability to lead his team. The other one hasn't done much since being in the NFL except show some tangibles. I know...all you Ramsey lovers can crucify me now. Wait I'm confused. Are you saying that Brady is Mobile??? I'm not saying that Ramsey compares to Brady. But Mobility is probably the one area where he does compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red zone Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by halter91 Same thing was sais a few years ago when Cole's came to town. Reminded him of Pennington. I would have to think Patten's word carries a bunch more credibility in light of recent events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Prime Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by Califan007 So, does the term "touch" apply to passes thrown 40 or 50 yards??...Seriously, only trying to understand the difference.. I always saw "touch" as being defined as a QBs ability to accurately place his passes... Touch is the ability for the QB to know when to take a little velocity off the ball.. Unlike Jay Schroder<sp> who "gunned" the ball as hard as he could all the time no matter if his receiver was 5 yards away or 50. Patrick has the ability to throw long, but touch is the ability to know when to take a little off for the sake of accuracy and placement.. And touch lob over the shoulder for instance. It's a long pass but a touch one ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro I guess it depends on the QB. I can see the QB's accuracy sufferring if he has to use poor form to get a harder touch on his passes. OTOH, an NFL-level QB shouldn't have such problems. The main questions about Ramsey's arm have been his accuracy on the long throws and his touch on the short ones. I get you now...that makes sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 What's the difference between touch and accuracy??... Accuracy is being able to throw a ball in a certain area that is desireable. You can throw a ball through a tire hanging from a tree at 15 mph or 100 mph and if it goes through you are accurate. Example: a player is running a 10 yard button hook. When he turns around the ball should hit him in the chest. If the receivers are consistently getting the ball between their waist and head - I'd say they are playing with an accurate QB. Touch refers more to throwing a ball that's "easy" to catch, run through and pick up extra yards. Montana was the all time greatest at this. His anticipation (leading a WR), placement and ball speed was just perfect for allowing a receiver to catch it and rack up YAC. Brady is probably the best in the game at this right now. He's just so smooth. Think Kurt Warner in his prime also. You'll find that it's easier to make the "great catch" when a QB has great touch. Even the errant passes can be completed. Jeff George used to have good accuracy but poor touch. Matt Hasselbeck is a contemporary example. Favre comes to mind though he's been known to take a little something off at times. McNabb to a certain extent. These players have good arms but throw heavy balls. It's like catching a bowling ball - you have to brace yourself for the impact before turning it upfield and getting yards. Whereas with Brady, it's like catching a loaf of bread. Unfortunately, I see Ramsey lacking touch and I'm not sure if it's something he can acquire. Think how many times a player has caught one of his passes (that wasn't a screen) and picked up an additional 15-20 RAC yards? I can't think of too many times. Even his deep balls fall into the WRs hands and they get tackled right away. He's also had a tendency to feel the rush coming. A great QB needs to always keep his eye downfield and make the first pass rusher miss. Dan Marino had NO scrambling ability but he was able to sense the rush and step up or side step the first guy to allow for another 1 to 1.5 seconds in the pocket. That's an eternity and will shave off 20 sacks. Brady is the best in the game at this right now. Personally, I don't see much similarity at all with these 2. I think the best we can hope for with Ramsey is to be Mark Rypien-esque. Not bad and a player who can lead the troops but certainly not MVP caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by Gothtimus Touch is the ability for the QB to know when to take a little velocity off the ball.. Unlike Jay Schroder<sp> who "gunned" the ball as hard as he could all the time no matter if his receiver was 5 yards away or 50. Patrick has the ability to throw long, but touch is the ability to know when to take a little off for the sake of accuracy and placement.. And touch lob over the shoulder for instance. It's a long pass but a touch one ;p After reading your definition (and ntotoro's), it would apply to, say timing passes in the back corner of the endzone while in the red zone, too, right??...touch and accuracy = placment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by Dirk Diggler Accuracy is being able to throw a ball in a certain area that is desireable. You can throw a ball through a tire hanging from a tree at 15 mph or 100 mph and if it goes through you are accurate. Example: a player is running a 10 yard button hook. When he turns around the ball should hit him in the chest. If the receivers are consistently getting the ball between their waist and head - I'd say they are playing with an accurate QB. Touch refers more to throwing a ball that's "easy" to catch, run through and pick up extra yards. Montana was the all time greatest at this. His anticipation (leading a WR), placement and ball speed was just perfect for allowing a receiver to catch it and rack up YAC. Brady is probably the best in the game at this right now. He's just so smooth. Think Kurt Warner in his prime also. You'll find that it's easier to make the "great catch" when a QB has great touch. Even the errant passes can be completed. Jeff George used to have good accuracy but poor touch. Matt Hasselbeck is a contemporary example. Favre comes to mind though he's been known to take a little something off at times. McNabb to a certain extent. These players have good arms but throw heavy balls. It's like catching a bowling ball - you have to brace yourself for the impact before turning it upfield and getting yards. Whereas with Brady, it's like catching a loaf of bread. Unfortunately, I see Ramsey lacking touch and I'm not sure if it's something he can acquire. Think how many times a player has caught one of his passes (that wasn't a screen) and picked up an additional 15-20 RAC yards? I can't think of too many times. Even his deep balls fall into the WRs hands and they get tackled right away. He's also had a tendency to feel the rush coming. A great QB needs to always keep his eye downfield and make the first pass rusher miss. Dan Marino had NO scrambling ability but he was able to sense the rush and step up or side step the first guy to allow for another 1 to 1.5 seconds in the pocket. That's an eternity and will shave off 20 sacks. Brady is the best in the game at this right now. Personally, I don't see much similarity at all with these 2. I think the best we can hope for with Ramsey is to be Mark Rypien-esque. Not bad and a player who can lead the troops but certainly not MVP caliber. Good definition of the two terms... And by the way, watching Doug Williams in the Super Bowl on the DVDs I "won" in the contest (I say "won" because I didn't deserve to win..lol), he had phenomenal touch on his passes (most of 'em, anyway)...it was scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunPortisRun Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Watching our QBs play I can understand why we dont have a clear understanding of the differences between touch and acc. we rarely see the two displayed. Our savior Jason Campbell will teach us. I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAVENS_SUCK_HUN Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by RunPortisRun Watching our QBs play I can understand why we dont have a clear understanding of the differences between touch and acc. we rarely see the two displayed. Our savior Jason Campbell will teach us. I believe. WORD!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by skinsfan93 Of course, Patten is going to say good things about his starting QB....otherwise the balls won't be coming his way I don't see how anyone can compare Ramsey to Brady. They are entirely different QB's. One is mobile, has smarts, has touch and has shown the ability to lead his team. The other one hasn't done much since being in the NFL except show some tangibles. I know...all you Ramsey lovers can crucify me now. I'm not a huge Ramsey fan myself. but.... I think Patten is qualified to make judgements about Pat more so than you or I. Plus, he didn't compare him to Brady of today, he compared him to Brady of four-five years ago. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by skinsfan93 I'll be happy if he just performs solidly....throw a few deep balls and limit his int's. He's going to do more than just perform solidly. He's going to have a breakout season. Originally posted by RunPortisRun All Pat needs to do is hand off to Portis. A QB that loses the starting job to Brunell does not all of a sudden become great. ~RunPortisRun Pat was lost last preseason, but so was the whole offense. This year will be a different story. Hate all you want, but Ramsey has NEVER really had a chance to develop. He's finally going to get some protection and support. He's going to be a very good player for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drex Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by illone I'm not a huge Ramsey fan myself. but.... I think Patten is qualified to make judgements about Pat more so than you or I. Plus, he didn't compare him to Brady of today, he compared him to Brady of four-five years ago. Big difference. The only problem is that 4 or 5 years ago, Brady was a rookie and Patrick is heading into his 4th season. Comparing Patrick at this point in his career to a player who 4 or 5 years ago, was a rookie, isn't exactly something to be extremely proud about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Complete Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by Drex The only problem is that 4 or 5 years ago, Brady was a rookie and Patrick is heading into his 4th season. Comparing Patrick at this point in his career to a player who 4 or 5 years ago, was a rookie, isn't exactly something to be extremely proud about. Exactly. I was thinking the same thing. He's really just saying what everyone else has said, that he's confident, and has the tools but just needs to put it all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red zone Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by Gothtimus Touch is the ability for the QB to know when to take a little velocity off the ball.. Unlike Jay Schroder<sp> who "gunned" the ball as hard as he could all the time no matter if his receiver was 5 yards away or 50. Patrick has the ability to throw long, but touch is the ability to know when to take a little off for the sake of accuracy and placement.. And touch lob over the shoulder for instance. It's a long pass but a touch one ;p I appreciate your attempting to describe "touch" Gothimus. However, lob one in the NFL and it's going the other way. Lob should be stricken from Patrick's vocabulary. Patrick's primary problem is not his lack of touch, it is holding on to the ball to long. By holding it to long, he has no other option but to gun it. Once he gets comfortable and quick in his reads, the touch will start to improve. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by Drex The only problem is that 4 or 5 years ago, Brady was a rookie and Patrick is heading into his 4th season. Comparing Patrick at this point in his career to a player who 4 or 5 years ago, was a rookie, isn't exactly something to be extremely proud about. Never said I was proud of it, but that doesn't seem like a problem to me. Comparing a rookie QB who went on to win 3 SB's in 4 years just doesn't seem like a bad thing IMO. Plus I really see Pat as a 2nd year guy. Again not a big fan of his but I feel that gibbs has had to re-teach him so many things that basically he started over. If Pat brings us 3 rings in the next 4 years I don't care if you call him Doug Elway:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB44 Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro I guess it depends on the QB. I can see the QB's accuracy sufferring if he has to use poor form to get a harder touch on his passes. OTOH, an NFL-level QB shouldn't have such problems. The main questions about Ramsey's arm have been his accuracy on the long throws and his touch on the short ones. Well Said! This is the area Patrick has to improve on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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