@DCGoldPants Posted June 30, 2005 Author Share Posted June 30, 2005 http://www.rushonline.com/visitors/linkconfirmed.htm whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Bufford http://www.rushonline.com/visitors/linkconfirmed.htm whoops! I guess Rumsfield doesn't listen to Rush... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 No one needs to disagree Saddam probably aided groups like Hezbollah and Hamas. Isreal has always been on Saddam's "things to do list". But that terror conflict should have nothing to do with us. It's Isreal's problem. Or should we have any direct involvement in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict? Or any say in the Rwanda/Congo conflict for that matter, since our goal here is ultimately human rights against terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Bufford, 42 percent 9 months ago is about where I thought it would be. Today that number would be even lower. And in either case it's not as high as the left claims. Second, the Matthews interview is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of what Im talking about. He spouts a number, but doesnt have actual polling data or fact to back it up. THATS A PROBLEM. And the Rush poll? I have no doubt that 99 percent of his audience believes that Saddam did it himself. But that's hardly scientific dont you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Kilmer17 He spouts a number, but doesnt have actual polling data or fact to back it up. THATS A PROBLEM. Totally agree with you. The media (Fox news included) is about the lowest thing on Earth IMO. They are manipulators, all of them. I don't believe there is a liberal media conspiracy, I just think the media in general is irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by codeorama I guess Rumsfield doesn't listen to Rush... Hurrah for Rumsfeld. Now for the rest of his listeners, talk about brainwash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 30, 2005 Author Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Kilmer17 Bufford, 42 percent 9 months ago is about where I thought it would be. Today that number would be even lower. And in either case it's not as high as the left claims. Second, the Matthews interview is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of what Im talking about. He spouts a number, but doesnt have actual polling data or fact to back it up. THATS A PROBLEM. And the Rush poll? I have no doubt that 99 percent of his audience believes that Saddam did it himself. But that's hardly scientific dont you agree? I'd believe that if anything more than 10% of American's who are paying attention to this, think there was a connection. Then something is going wrong. 42% 9 months ago is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Youre flaw is assuming people are paying attention. We, on this board, are in the small small minority. Most people couldnt tell you who the Vice President is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Kilmer17 Most people couldnt tell you who the Vice President is. LOL... I just know he's a Dick... :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 30, 2005 Author Share Posted June 30, 2005 so, they know enough to say there is a connection, but are idiots about everything else. ugh..... I believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Bufford ugh..... I believe it. I believe it too. It's amazing how so many people are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 30, 2005 Author Share Posted June 30, 2005 I think I saw them CSPAN diagnoising a woman from a video tape. wait...... that's something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 We're gutless and we're soft. The majority of this thread makes me want to puke.The fact that any of you can deny the justification for Operation Iraqi Freedom -- it makes my head swim. Those of us who oppose the war at this time aren't gutless and soft. You may THINK that, but that ain't the truth. It takes courage to be in a war, but it also takes courage to speak when it isn’t popular to say "I do not agree!" There's courage in words, too. Gutless and soft is staying silent while the Bush administration is less then truthful, being servile and supporting your president, right or wrong, It is so easy to simply assert that Saddam may have done this and done that, and yet, we have thousands of dead people and billions and dollars spent, simply because of a fear. And that is why we are in Iraq, because of a fear, and not a reality. We have heard this all before: “If Vietnam falls, the rest of South East Asia will become communist.” This was commonly known as the Domino Theory. Not only did Asia not become communist, but Vietnam is going to be one of our future trading partners in that region. And now, this same fear has propelled us into Iraq. Never mind the reality of the situation, that Saddam, while being an evil thug, probably did not even pose the threat that Iran and North Korea pose to this nation. Ok. What was the fear in the situation when we invaded Iraq? That Saddam would give chemical or biological agents to terrorists? Let me ask those who support the invasion based upon that fear. Do you feel that Bin Laden, Al Queda, or any other terrorists can cause great harm using methods other then anything that Saddam could have provided to these groups? If your answer is yes, then it shows the short-sighted fear of what Saddam may have provided or supported to these terrorists. Bin Laden didn’t need Saddam for 9-11. He needed manpower and airplanes, not WMDs. The fear of the WMDs being used as agents of terrorism is overlooking the fact that terrorists do not need such weapons to cause great damage or spread fear. We are getting so wound up about WMDs that we are forgetting what was used on 9-11: box cutters (or so it was claimed at least). That’s your WMD, folks. Several people in this thread have pointed to the connection between Saddam and terrorists as a justification for an invasion. The thing is, not one of the folks who support the invasion and occupation has responded to my assertions that the U.S. has more ties to Saddam and Bin Laden then practically anyone. Is this fact simply ignored by the war supporters? Does any of the war supporters care that we may have helped create this situation, and we are doing nothing to change this policy, seeing how we are supporting dictatorships in central Asia simply for the sake of airbases and convenience? What about our own ties to terrorists? Another thing that seems to be ignored by those who support the war is the deception and lies that the Bush administration has been purveying before, during, and after the war. Are Bush and War supporters so willing to turn a blind eye because they support the cause? Does it become a matter, to them, or does the end justify the means? What does it take for folks to recognize that everything ain't what it's cracked up to be? Are we so hung up on our fears that we forget all sense of reason, that an “anything goes” spirit begins to permeate us? According to some on this thread, we have now entered the age of Perpetual War. Some assert that we NEEDED to invade Iraq becuse of the possibility of what Saddam may do. Most agree that Saddam wasn't involved with 9-11, and even though the War on Terrorism started with 9-11, here we are in Iraq, while we continue to fight the Taliban in Afghanistan. And to those of us who currently do not support the war, we just do not think an invasion to dismantle and rebuild and entire nation was worth it, simply because Saddam "may have joined with terrorists and attacked the United States." You're talking about a lot of bloodshed for a "What if scenario." You're talking about a lot of money spend on a future possibility that we'll never know. I hope to god we don't start running this nation on the philosophy if why we are in Iraq. Oh wait, we are, it's called the Patriot Act. Fear is the order of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Baculus All war is a "what if" scenario. The outcome is never certain, and neither are the possible actions of other nations involved directly or indirectly, or even just nearby. While I am not a Bush supporter, I do support this war. And yes, fear is rampant, but it's also justified. almost 4000 people died in a single morning as a result of the actions of the people we are trying to defeat. I'd say that's pretty damn scary. Read my post on the page before.. perhaps it will show another viewpoint than the usual political view that is assigned to this issue. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Bang almost 4000 people died in a single morning as a result of the actions of the people we are trying to defeat. Or someone who kinda looks like them, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Kilmer17 That's my point Code, you may THINK that, but the left is claiming it as fact. And then using that "fact" to slam the President. I think a poll today would show less than 30 percent of people think Saddam was part of 9/11. But I bet 80% would say he was linked to terror groups. Harris poll, March '05 Study proves Bush supporters live in Dream World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gichin13 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Kilmer17 Because the people who were responsible for 9/11 are cut from the same cloth as Saddam. That is on the money. Only issue I have is you could easily say the same about a LOT of other people. Syria. Iran's new President. N. Korea. That is in 5 seconds, we could keep this list growing for quite a while. I think it is a slippery slope for justification for war. Regardless, spilt milk time is over. We are over there and we damned well better end with a W. As such, my view is time limits are silly, we stay until we are done now that we are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gichin13 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by jpillian We're gutless and we're soft. The majority of this thread makes me want to puke. Is there a direct link between 9/11 and Saddam? Who the he11 cares? The reason why most people MAY think there is a link is because (I hope) most are smart enough to realize "where there is smoke, there is FIRE!" Saddam was a bad man in the middle east that hated the US. Osama was a bad man in the middle east that hated the US. Let's get a couple more armies, wipe out the Syrians, Pakistan (nuclear proliferation), North Korea, and Iran. While we are at it, let's stick it to China and really make Russia worry we are coming after them as well. After all, they are bad people and have done bad things and many of them hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gichin13 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Kilmer17 I think we should go to S.A. next. I do have a question I heard on the radio last night (cant recall which show). Can someone show me a poll showing that a significant number of Americans actually think that their is a connection between Saddam and 9/11. Not a piece talking about it, but an actual poll showing it? Point being, I dont think it exists. I think it's a talking point used by the left and the left media to somehow say "SEE BUSH LIED AGAIN!" Here is an interesting polling link. Basically, 20% of respondents thought Iraq was directly involved, another 35% or so thought Iraq was giving significant aid and support to Al Qeida. http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Iraq/Media_10_02_03_Report.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gichin13 Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Originally posted by Kilmer17 That's my point Code, you may THINK that, but the left is claiming it as fact. And then using that "fact" to slam the President. I think a poll today would show less than 30 percent of people think Saddam was part of 9/11. But I bet 80% would say he was linked to terror groups. I think you are giving a lot of folks too much credit. I would certainly agree with Saddam being a horrible human being, and also obviously supporting some terror groups, just not involved with 9/11. I also think Bush and his supporters, especially Cheney, have attempted to imply a connection constantly and that is likely the main source for these misconceptions. On another level, I saw Colin Powell the other day with John Stewert and I still have some faith in his credibility. When he says that based on the best info that was given to him, he believed there was a credible threat, it is a lot easier for me to swallow. I really wish he was in charge the last couple terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Baculas: I agree. I disagree with your analysis of the situation, but i agree with your stance... You are an American and have every right to disagree with me an what is going on. You also have the right to disagree with the money spent.. You also have the right to disagree with the soldiers lost. You also have the right to disagree with the soldiers injured. You also have the right to disagree with the intent pushed. I think were right on track.. but... this is the U.S. and yes we have differing opinions... ANY suppression of that is dictatorish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Originally posted by E-Dog Night Claptrap propaganda at its finest. Shame on you if you bought it. Apparently,quite a few people have bought it.:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Thiebear and Bang - I also understand your prospectives, which I do not agree with as well. But, as Thiebear pointed out, it's America, and thankfully, for the time being, we can discuss these matters in a civil manner: "ANY suppression of that is dictatorish." Sadly enough in some parts of the country this has happened, which weakens us all a little bit at a time. And this pertains to whether it's dissent against Bush and the War, or the use of God in a college paper. While many won't necessarily agree with my stances, I hope you understand that I strive to be truthful in my opinions. And when I present information and links, it is my hope that I will at least provide a little bit of food for thought, since things aren't always what they appear on the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted July 1, 2005 Author Share Posted July 1, 2005 "ANY suppression of that is dictatorish are you talking about the Denver Three? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I wasn't talking about the Denver Three, but their case is an interesting situation. I think some folks in this nation, with an "anything goes to wn the War on Terror And Against America's Enemies," feel they can bully around others in the name of patriotism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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