wit33

Nah, one could say it’s out of pocket for him to tell Haskins to do that. I haven’t personally witnessed a QB become the ultimate teammate post getting benched in a game.

An individual swallowed up by the moment and everything going on his life. Young could’ve told him to do five cartwheels then high five Taylor and he would’ve done it. I have Compassion for the dude and hope he finds some internal peace with it all.

Wild, a DE is the reason for legit hope to win next week. I actually expect him to force a TO in the game. Wild.

I haven’t watched enough, maybe 8 quarters or so, but I still see elite/unique power running ability from the QB spot and an ability to extend plays. Nothing I can stand-on if someone were to present a wealth of information to the contrary, but I still see ability and not afraid of QBs entering early to mid 30s as others are (even a mobile QB, especially with Newton being a power runner versus quickness guy—power ages much better than quicks/burst). The scheme Turner runs seems to really align with the skill set of Newton and the team has weapons to support him. The run and short game would be dynamic. It’s also a lot to do with cost for me, he won’t cost much more than 3-7mil (my guess). Extremely low risk with potential for high rewards.

Cam Newton remains in play for me: will be supremely cheap, great history with the staff, and dual threat ability. This can take place while keeping Allen and drafting a young guy. Need legit options and cupboard full of average level QB play and potential for something better. Newton is an option if Alex Smith does not return.

Became the most impactful and important player on offense, in my view. The offense flirts with being dynamic at times with him on the field.

I thought the last few games he was turning into the offenses most important and best player. In my view, he’s the key to this years team being dynamic at times. And critical to Smiths success: Recently I gave thought to QBs being better than others on certain downs. I wonder if certain QBs are better than others on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd downs. My hypothesis is that Smith is a great (Maybe even elite) first down QB, but requires a multi talented RB, which Gibson was becoming, especially early in downs due to his unique power and catching ability (just started to scratch the potential of him catching). Smith had Frank Gore in SF, Jamaal Charles in KC, and now Gibson in Washington— all guys who do it all well. Obviously, Gibson has a long ways to go to be those guys, but the talent and production are there. So, all that to say, Gibson is the key to making a SB run

He’s somehow old, but will most likely start for another 7 years. I don’t care to trade assets to obtain his services though.

Cousins would agree with this point of view as well and a reason why (IMO) he will always struggle to consistently be a playoff type QB. It’s always been about his process and what’s good for him— The antithesis of Alex Smith. Dudes can be successful when wired this way, but you better be damn near if not elite. Work to get an above average to good young guy while providing stability at the spot is the direction I think the team is headed next year. Alex Smith and Kyle Allen are a package of Smith returns next season. Hope it’s at half the rate he’s paid now.

If you play with Alex you’re going to have an opportunity to be in 80-90% of games, win 65% of the time, have an opportunity to showcase your talent in meaningful situations consistently that leads to extensions or money elsewhere (this is what players care most about— their livelihoods) and being genuinely nice dude is the topper. Plenty of nice guys at QB that teams have turned against, you have to produce and provide consistent results.

If Ron and company decide to ride with Alex, then it must include Kyle Allen. Almost treat those two as 1a and 1b and draft a young dude. I think that’s the easy solution.

All this nuanced discussion about QBs. Love it. Should be an interesting off season at that spot.

I was thinking something like 20 to 3 or 4 pick . It’s at minimum two #1s and a lot added to it, maybe an additional two #2s??

Say the team is is pick 19-23, what are you giving up to move to 3 or 4? Only reference trade I can think of is when Falcons moved up to get Julio. What are some other examples of teams moving up that far into the top 5? My guess it would cost 3 first round picks and a couple 2s. I’m with you on being aggressive if they LOVE one of the top tier QBs in the draft.

Smith’s mobility played a significant role in why he was a winning QB and separated himself from the crop of average QBs. QBs today outside of the dying breed of dinosaurs (Brees and Brady) must be able to extend, create and at minimum make throws outside of the pocket at times. It’s not to say he can’t do the job, but at what level at cost? He will continue to be safe with the football and manage games which has value in the league, but he did always have mobility as his “ace in the hole”.

Exactly lol. I agree breaks often take place, but that’s a non controllable and cannot be predicted. Sure, it most likely will happen to either side... I agree. Though, the “breaks” don’t have a preference to victimizing the elite or average. Above average or below average aren’t moving the needle much for me unless they have some playmaking ability and are at a good cost (4-10% of the cap for the above average). Don’t even really like going that high for the above guy and only will entertain if he can make plays in and outside the pocket. I can’t argue this and would stomach the cost if it meant the team would be in the playoffs and a potential contender. Im losing it for Smith without his legs, this was the case for me before his recent poor outing. Thought the Steeler game was very close from getting ugly due to poor play by the offense and Smith in the 1st half. I’m not romantic or married to any one way of doing things. The value is ever moving depending on the interdependent variables involved for that particular season or window. If the argument is having an elite guy, then I’m all in financially for the blue chip stock. Kodac in the 80s and 90s though or if you were in on it before this last summer @ $2 it would’ve been the equivalent to a SB win. I’d still be up for having Dalton compete for the job next year 5-7mil. Only upside in a situation like this, no risk. The model above is achievable and controllable, where as you’re hoping for the next elite guy. Obviously, if you’re arguing from a position of I prefer elite over average, you got me. We agree that getting average to good play from a guy on his rookie deal is the holy grail, due to it being very feasible. I think you’d also agree securing a cheap beaten down stock of a veteran isn’t mutually exclusive getting a young guy. Do both. My guess is you can go back in a few of those games and find incredible fickleness in those losses. Admittedly, I don’t put too much stock into playoff records for QBs due to the many variables involved and sample size data being so small. For example, Ryan Tannehill has a winning playoff record and completed 15 total passes in the two games combined. I think there’s many of these arguments for either side, which makes the data unreliable in many ways, IMO. The value diminishes dramatically for the average to above started at a great pay rate if the team isn’t solid to good around them. Keenums value to the Vikings was immense at 2-3mil that season, with a good team around him and a system he knew very well. Keenum would be on the low end for me in terms of value guys, in large part because of his physical limitations. I like guys who were solid with previous teams and have good to great baseline level of talent. Mariota is a name I like for next year, combined with a high rookie investment.

Would need a breakdown of what lucky is to the average QB versus the great or elite. In my view they all require a great deal of luck outside of Mahomes these days. Failed logic, in my view. What is an impressive win percentage for a QB in the playoffs? Hoping to catch major breaks? Who even thinks this way as a team. I agree it’s a top priority, no doubt. I wouldnt want to overpay an average guy, but I do understand the logic of securing that spot with competence. I absolutely think you can win a SB with an average guy, but he must have some ability to create and extend plays. Not sure who at this stage, but we’ll see how the off season shakes out. Id like Kyle Allen to be retained and compete with whomever they bring in or Alex Smith and draft a young guy. Sam Darnold is a guy I like, but that’s getting into subjective discussion. For example, I’d rather pay Darnold 7 mil than retain Smith at 22mil. Darnold, Allen and rookie battling out at a cost of around 10-14mil sounds good to me.

Not seeing the Stafford angle, maybe if he was 3 or 4 years older, but a new regime can realistically plan the next five years with Stafford in mind. No interest in paying an average starter 20mil or a Dak Prescott 30 plus.... yuck. Save the money to get talent on offense and keep ALL the defensive guys together for the next 4-5 years. I can roll with attempting to be the exception by having an elite defense and average starter to compete for SB.

Im trending in direction of exploring other options than Alex. I’d entertain it if he agreed to slice his deal in half. I just hope the team doesn’t give him $20mil just because that’s the going rate for a veteran starter. Offer him $10 and go from there. $10mil let’s the team go and take a gamble on a veteran WR for next year without assuming much long term risk or whatever else. I really thought Kyle Allen was dynamic in the short game with his timing, arm angles, ability to move and create unique passing lanes within the offense, but have zero confidence in his ability to manage a game or understand when and when not to make throws down field. Let Allen and Smith battle it out for the job and draft a rookie might be the way I go, only if the money makes sense on Alex.

Is Sweat far off from how impressive this dude is!?! Unbelievable these two dudes are playing at this level in year 1 and 2 of rookie deals. A truly unique window is opening for this team.

Clear to me Gibson is the X factor on offense and he’s needed back desperately. The offense has lost physicality out of the shotgun set. I understand it’s easy to jump on this point after the effort today, but you can see that the offense is working with a more limited playbook with him out.

Will be interesting to see how the FO (or unfortunately with Smith potentially out, Ron wants to do at QB). Wonder if he has an idea or is letting the season play out. If the defense continues its trend upward to close the year there’s no reason not to expect to be in contention next year and a rookie QB doesn’t fit this 2 year type window to go all in with young talent on rookie deals. Trending in direction of retaining Smith, but still want to see a bit more from him. I remain slightly worried what his baseline will be without his pre injury mobility. His mobility was critical in complimenting his ultra conservative approach to games, as it provided him opportunities to make plays off schedule or run for critical 1st downs— this is pretty all gone from his game. The Steeler game was close to getting out of hand in the first half due to ineptitude of the offense. As I’ve mentioned previously, fascinated to see if he makes the necessary changes to transform his game and increase his comfort level in the pocket (he’s always been jumpy and jittery, IMO). It’s my belief the ability for classic old school pocket QB to keep up with today’s QB they must have the ability to go empty set, change and manipulate tempo, and audible and checking and out of plays— it seems Smith is providing these keys (no evidence he has the ability to audible, but when watching it appears he does). The potential golden nugget is his ability to operate comfortably out of empty sets, so critical against the better defense to put them in space and require them to cover more areas.

They may have unlocked something with empty sets and Alex Smith. I can envision some early down empty set motions from Mckissic with Smith having some choice to motion and audible in and out of run or pass.

Size and power matters, especially early in downs when the priority is to keep the defense honest. I grew to really appreciate Gibson’s ability to provide a power style of running to the Shotgun set— his ability to churn his legs and get 2-4 yards consistently was huge to creating and sustaining positive momentum on early downs. Obviously, he seemed to be on the cusp of adding a consistent big play ability, which is truly unique. I believe Mckissic will have some success, but worry there may be more 2nd and 9, 10, or 11s with him. My guess is they give Barber 80% or so of Gibson’s role and let Mckissic continue to do his thing.

From college tape I thought an undervalued physical trait was his initial burst or short area quickness in relation to his size. The team lacks this at WR spot number 2. A big ask in year 1 but hope he can be a guy that can use his size for slants and outs to compliment his jump all ability.