The Atlantic: The Myth of Working Your Way Through College

[Elessar78]

11 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

 

I'd say enlist or set up some sort of non-military national service program for post-HS kids that helps pay for college. 

Isn't there a GI Bill from post WW2 that does this already?

[Weganator]

2 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

Isn't there a GI Bill from post WW2 that does this already?

There is, but I believe you have to assess the costs of school and make the decision to do so prior to enrolling in school. Also, it gives added responsibilities to the students while they are at school.

 

I think this was more of pitching out there for a 'whoops I messed up, my degree is worthless and I have mountains of debt' fallback plan.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

How long do you think it takes to get an AS and then a masters degree while working full-time?

 

Even if you weren't working full time it's a minimum 5 years, and more if you have any struggles or are in an exceptionally hard major (like engineering or something.)

 

She started right out of high school. As did my boss.

 

I started right out of high school but am in a much different situation than both of them, and screwed up a lot along the way, so my story isn't really applicable except for the fact that I worked full time through a lot of it, and at one point was taking 6 classes while working two jobs so people who tell me it isn't possible can shove it. It is possible. I did it. My wife did it. My boss did it.

 

I've worked 40+ hours a week since I was old enough to work (exception being in high school during the school year, right under 30 by law and 32-40 during college).  I earned a BSME, it took 5 years, yes I had student loans and some help.  I know how long it takes to earn a degree.  I also know that it is not impossible to pay your way, just extremely hard to do and coming out debt free.

 

You said she got an associates degree, that's a 2 year degree.  So yes, its very possible to earn a 2 year degree while paying your way.  Then you said she got a job at the hospital and they offered assistance with the tuition towards her masters degree.  She still had some assistance from her job, which is fine, it's a benefit, but it's also not what the article is about.  

 

The article is about how it would take 48 hours a week work at minimum wage for a student to pay their way through college to come out debt free, just on tuition costs, not including other fees (books, room/board if on campus, etc.) or if off-campus rent/bills/etc.  With no financial aid or family resources.  

 

Also, I don't know what your wife's associates degree is in, but a lot of masters programs require a bachelor's degree, which is another 2-3 years of undergrad studies.  You leave out some key info like what college did she attend to earn her associates degree (community college, etc.) and what was that degree in?  Where did she get her masters from and in what field of study?  And thats fine if you don't want to get into that detail, but it does factor in when talking total cost.  

 

Edit:  before you rant, I'm not talking down to you, your wife, or anyone.  I went two years to community college, then transferred to UNCC.  I did have student loans and worked 32-40 hours during school.  I always encourage anyone I talk to about college to look into those options and let them know there is nothing wrong with that path, it's the end result that matters.  I'm applying your story to the context of the article, which is basically only talking about going off to college 4 years and being able to pay it off debt free without any financial help or family help as compared to the 60s-70s, etc.  

 

 

 

[Destino]

Having people work their way through college doesn't benefit banks.  We can't have that.  Everything must be made to serve the interests of banks.  Huge debt from high school graduation all the way to retirement where a reverse mortgage takes it all back.  

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

1 hour ago, Elessar78 said:

Respectfully disagree. 

 

For example, you end up with writers who don't have the exposure to write about technical matters. You produce engineers who don't have an appreciation for the value of aesthetics (before the counter rant—note how many buy "sweet looking" cars or how sleek their gadgets are). An awareness of history matters so you don't put wannabe dictators at the head of the world's greatest Democracy. 

 

This feeling that (higher) education is only a utilitarian device (to make money) is a very new thing. We are more than how much we make and our quality of life (outside of work) matters much more than the contemporary American gives it credit.

 

Sure, you can take those classes outside of college, but many don't. Just the reading itself, is invaluable practice and training and critical thinking for say a lawyer. 

 

So that's my argument for the necessity of the "bull****" courses. 

 

My degree was in mechanical engineering, but I never got a job in that field, so no counter rant bruh.  

 

I'm not saying that history, English, Lit, etc isn't important, I'm saying being forced to take those classes again in college is pointless unless that is what your field of study is, imo.  You already took those classes through 12th grade, there is no extra added benefit (based on your major) to take them again (again my opinion).

 

And I've had that opinion that those electives and required classes (outside of your major) you are forced to take are a money making device since I was in college taking them (1993-98).  I sat in those classes and each day thinking what a waste of my time and money taking this class that will not help me in my field after graduation.  Now, I of course won't discourage anyone (especially children/kids) from going to college based on that belief and I only share that with adults in conversation when brought up from time to time.

 

I've always thought that they really should replace the BS classes with more core classes and related classes so it better prepares you for a job once you graduate.  Those electives/BS classes did nothing for me personally.  I don't sit around the house with the wife discussing The Iliad or Aristotle and Plato.....though it does help ones trivia game at the bar.

[zoony]

42 minutes ago, Destino said:

Having people work their way through college doesn't benefit banks.  We can't have that.  Everything must be made to serve the interests of banks.  Huge debt from high school graduation all the way to retirement where a reverse mortgage takes it all back.  

 

Sounds like you're one step away from the Rothschild dealio 

[Renegade7]

Knew a chick who insisted on not having a car, living in an efficiency apartment, and taking several years doing part-time classes so she could pay her way through college to be a dentist.  I'm sure it's possible, but incredibly unrealistic.  Parents were renting a room, so staying with them wasn't an option for me, but there's no way I could've afforded to pay for my courses at my technical school outright at time I started without job skills for well enough paying job.  Hate to agree with Destino, but I feel like the system is intentionally set up to get as many people in debt as possible for as long as possible.

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, Elessar78 said:

Isn't there a GI Bill from post WW2 that does this already?

There is the Montgomery GI bill and then the Post-9/11 GI Bill.  Each have their own pro's and con's.  Everyone that has joined in the last 10 years or so and from now on will have the 9/11 GI Bill.

1 hour ago, Weganator said:

There is, but I believe you have to assess the costs of school and make the decision to do so prior to enrolling in school. Also, it gives added responsibilities to the students while they are at school.

 

I think this was more of pitching out there for a 'whoops I messed up, my degree is worthless and I have mountains of debt' fallback plan.

No it doesn't.  You just have to pass.  And you can actually drop out if you aren't going to pass so you don't get charged. 

 

As for your "whoops" plan, if you have a degree you can attempt to join as an officer.  There are all sorts of special programs to get assistance paying off loans when you join the military.  There are also programs where the military will pay for you to go to school full time instead of doing military duties.  If anyone wants to know more about these, let me know.

[Destino]

4 hours ago, zoony said:

 

Sounds like you're one step away from the Rothschild dealio 

There isn't a need for conspiracy theories.  The Holder Doctrine is more infuriating than any of the bizarre stories about secret banking cabals ruling the world, but it's so much more boring.  Secret villains are interesting and can be combated by those that know the truth.  A hero need only expose it and open the eyes of the people!  It's no surprise people want to believe stuff like that, books and movies have been leaning on that plot device for ages.  It's fun!

 

CDOs are boring.  Housing policy is boring.  Banks aligning with short term political interest for long term gain, without any meaningful opposition, is a boring news story that isn't going to trend on Twitter.  The occupy movement fell on its face because there was no bumpersticker sized slogan that worked to oppose the influence of banks and no immediate short term gain to offer the people.  Environmental groups offer cleaner air and water.  Who doesn't want that?  The occupy movement could offer you what?  More regulations for financial instruments, that no one has ever heard of, and loans that are much more difficult to get?  Small wonder that movement failed as it did.

 

Hell, we can't even agree that the people managing our retirement accounts should have a fiduciary responsibility to us.  Trump rolled that rule back and no one gave a damn.  One of Trump's idiots mentioning Ivanka's clothing line got more press.  You'd think the guy managing your money being able to intentionally lie to you for his company's benefit would be something people cared about.  Nope.

 

So no conspiracies and no fancy foil hats.  Just grim reality and a bunch of nuts buying gold.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Bozo the kKklown]

2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I would add (and kudos to your wife @tshile ) that just because someone can do it with a ton of hard work, should it be that tough to get higher education? It's wonderful for those who make it through the process that has been described. I'm sure it builds character, etc. But why should it be such a daunting test? 

bingo