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KDawg

Chalk Talk: Defensive Line Play

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Albert Haynesworth can realistically come here and get 0 quarterback sacks and still be successful. If he allows our linebackers to make plays in the backfield, whether it be in the way of tackles for loss, balls batted down or quarterback sacks and pressures on blitzes, then he did his job. Would it be nice to see him get some sack numbers himself? Sure, but that's bonus. His main job is to close gaps against run and open up blitzing lanes when a blitz is called. If no blitz is called, and we're looking to pressure with four men, then it's his job to make a play.

Good stuff. :applause:

Sadly, I expect a "Haynesworth has 0 sacks = bum" thread sometime this year.

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This is a great thread. I appreciate the shared football knowledge on this forum (when it is actually shared). I only played in the passing game (WR, CB, FS), so my knowledge of the DL/LB/OL/RB is pretty limited.

Thanks for the info. It reminds me of the West Coast Offense thread someone posted last year, breaking down a lot of the details of how the offensive system works.

I didn't see too much pressure on Tom Brady, but after Moss' second TD, it did seem like our adjustments were perfect for stopping their passing game. Plus, people were worried about Orakpo playing the run and he made a picture perfect LB/DE play on the right side of the field (from the def perspective) on one of the Pats outside the tackle run plays. I was cheering for that play alone, and the one where Haynesworth pretty much did a belly flop on Brady, oh and Smoots diving defense on a pass.

I think our DL got some good pressure after the adjustments.

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KDawg, its funny how alot of what you've outlined is what i've already known of, but not from a technical sense. Basically, it came from just a basic knowledge and observing the game for so many years. The way you break it down makes it really clear and understandable. Good job my man!

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Absolutely awesome post. I'm excited to see if Haynesworth/Griffin is a better combo than the Williams wall. I think the potential is definitely there.

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What we saw against the Gaytriots is our Dline....Much Improved,but no where near being dominate yet..

Did you even read the first post?

And to KDawg: I love these threads. How long have you been coaching? Thanks for actually taking the time to learn us a thing or two about real football. :D

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Did you even read the first post?

And to KDawg: I love these threads. How long have you been coaching? Thanks for actually taking the time to learn us a thing or two about real football. :D

so what are you saying we are dominate?:doh:

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so what are you saying we are dominate?:doh:

No I'm saying no one mentioned the Patriots game. If you didn't read the first post I think you should cause it's a nice read.

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21forlyfe isn't posting in this thread anymore because apparently he just doesn't get it. Now. Back to chalk talk.

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I know it is only gonna look like I'm throwing this one out there with no source...and I kinda am, but I have read interviews with a couple different NFL coaches that have quoted them saying the sack stat is one of the most overrated stats in the league.

It kinda is funny how some people hold it in such high regard, because clearly it isn't the most important thing for a D linemen. People will actually make the Hall based on their sack total.

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Thanks KDawg. This was a good D-Line 101 write-up. I look forward to your more advanced D-Line chalk talk!

No problem :)

Thanks for the info. It reminds me of the West Coast Offense thread someone posted last year, breaking down a lot of the details of how the offensive system works.

Check the link Mark The Homer posted, I posted a series of WCO threads last year. I believe Oldskool posted a WCO thread as well.

KDawg, its funny how alot of what you've outlined is what i've already known of, but not from a technical sense. Basically, it came from just a basic knowledge and observing the game for so many years. The way you break it down makes it really clear and understandable. Good job my man!

I didn't even get all that technical, but thank you for the props man!

Great thread KDawg! Can't wait to read more like this. Keep up the good work!

Thank you, sir :)

Absolutely awesome post. I'm excited to see if Haynesworth/Griffin is a better combo than the Williams wall. I think the potential is definitely there.

Not sure if they'll be better, but I'm sure they're going to be able to get the job done. Thanks for the kudos :)

And to KDawg: I love these threads. How long have you been coaching? Thanks for actually taking the time to learn us a thing or two about real football. :D

Fifth year coaching. You're welcome. Thanks for reading!

I know it is only gonna look like I'm throwing this one out there with no source...and I kinda am, but I have read interviews with a couple different NFL coaches that have quoted them saying the sack stat is one of the most overrated stats in the league.

It kinda is funny how some people hold it in such high regard, because clearly it isn't the most important thing for a D linemen. People will actually make the Hall based on their sack total.

Nope, you're absolutely correct. That said, guys like Bruce Smith and Reggie White got the job done both with sacks and in their support roles. Definitely true hall of famers :)

Thanks for reading.

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As basically a rookie to these forums i love reading informative posts such as these. Great post K-Dawg, I have learned much today Thank you:D

You're welcome :)

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I'm the 7th/8th grade head coach and the varsity defensive line coach and assistant offensive line coach. I pull double duty. :)

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.....Many here have the perception that defensive line play is purely all about quarterback pressure, tackling the running back and sacking the quarterback. It's not, far from it.......

STANCE/STARTS/STAY LOW

Besides a good stance, two of the most important things for a defensive lineman to do are to get off the ball quickly (the instant the ball is snapped, the DL should be moving towards the LOS) and staying low. If a defensive lineman stands straight up, they are sure to be driven backward. It's all about leverage, and the lower you are, the better off you are.......

I am not disagreeing with your post (and I really appreciate them!)

There are transitional duties during a rush like Containment and Pass Blocking that require a more upright position

pass blocking? d-line doesn't pass block. and containment doesn't require a more upright position.

i think maybe you're saying pass rush, so just let me clarify....a d-lineman doesn't stay hunched over. what k-dawg is saying, accurately, is that a d-lineman has to fire out and stay low thru any contact. sure, if a de is pursuing a qb after getting past a block, he will be more upright.

My point was when a DL rush is not successful in putting pressure on the QB they can transition to

a) containing a delayed run/short pass

B) block a pass or make it harder for QB to pass

Staying low would not be beneficial at this stage of the play

But I should have used the term "blocking a pass"

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My point was when a DL rush is not successful in putting pressure on the QB they can transition to

a) containing a delayed run/short pass

B) block a pass or make it harder for QB to pass

Staying low would not be beneficial at this stage of the play

But I should have used the term "blocking a pass"

You're still missing the point. You need to remain low through contact. Once contact is made and you've shed the blocker, or were unable to beat the blocker, then you need to make a read. If you read pass your way, hands need to go up and your pad level needs to rise.

Containing a delayed run (are you referring to a draw?) you would be able to do from a low position.

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You're still missing the point. You need to remain low through contact. Once contact is made and you've shed the blocker, or were unable to beat the blocker, then you need to make a read. If you read pass your way, hands need to go up and your pad level needs to rise.

Containing a delayed run (are you referring to a draw?) you would be able to do from a low position.

Make a read = Transition

We agree for the most part

Delayed run could also be a QB with no open receivers

and

Situational awareness is enhanced with distance and height from your oppositional lineman

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We agree for the most part

I'm not sure what you're arguing then, to be honest, as this is what both Maj and I have said in this thread :P

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another thing that is often discussed that not everyone knows is defensive-line techniques. kind of misleading, as it refers to WHERE the d-lineman lines up pre-snap,

Different programs have different ways of numbering techniques. Major's is one that I have seen.

Another good thread, K-dawg, but man its a complicated topic to sum up in a small space.

I thought people might get a better idea of how the assignments and gaps work if they see how Blache uses our D-line.

Correct me if i'm wrong on a typical 1st down our DL assignements are as such:

Carter-5 tech=C

Haynesworth-1/1.5=A gap

Griffin-3=B gap

Daniels-5=C plays more like a tackle then an end

Haynesworth commands the double

Griffin quick penetrates

Carter rushes tries to beat his man around the corner but not too wide

Daniels controlled rush/more like a DT then an end

A few plays on the clip below gives a good look at the DL:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/frz1q4 Size: 6MB

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Good read KDawg and we all know Haynesworth seals gaps like a gasket when he's not rushing the passer. He gets such a big push up the middle. Big things on the way.

HTTR

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Good stuff KDawg!

Maybe you can answer this for me;

I've noticed on some 3rd downs, our D looks to be in full blitz, but the CB's are playing 8 yds off the receivers.

I know i'm not crazy, but i've seen them before, when it was a full press blitz, with CB's dead frontof the receivers, chucking them at the snap, disrupting the timing.

Why do they not do this anymore? it seemed to be pretty successful before...

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