Daniel M. Snyder: Is he really a "new" owner, or just a more cunning version of the old one.

Having just spent the best part of an hour in another thread doing something I never thought I'd do 18 months or so back, defending the oft hated (with good reason) owner of the Washington Redskins, Daniel M. Snyder; from what, to me at least, is getting like a witch hunt from some on the guy no matter what he now does right; I thought I'd try gauge the fanbase's opinion as a whole the best we can on here with a public poll and discussion to see just what the true feelings are on him going into the second year of the new regime.

Below is a piece I put up defending the "new" owner as I see it when asked to do so by one of his detractors. The problem I have with the continued attacks on him for what went before, is that it's just that, 'what went before.' Why should a guy who's finally given what the majority wanted continued to be punished for his past sins? Surely you can only judge a guy on what he's currently doing. Not on what's gone before, or what may or may not happen in the future. And currently, for the past year and a half, he's done EVERYTHING we've craved for so long.

I'm curious to see how a public poll falls as to the actual members view points on our "new" owner.

(The post that lead to peaking my curiosity here, and I guess witness for the defense, so to speak):

How has Daniel M. Snyder, owner of the Washington Redskins, changed?

He listened.

It took him a decade of stubbornly thinking he knew best, and making the same repeated mistakes, but he finally listened and gave us what we've craved for so long. The football side has now been fully handed over to proper football people, with the once meddling, megalomaniac owner not so much as setting foot in Redskins Park the past year by all accounts save for coach/player introductory pressers; which if that isn't going "cold turkey" on what went before I don't know what is. No longer can the players go running to the owner and expect him to have their back over the HC down to the money they make for him. And did we hear anything from him through the media last season, through a lot of off field turmoil within the locker room?

We finally have a respectable owner, running a respectable football franchise again, at least off the field. (Patience ladies and gents. The on field success will follow in time.). I've been as critical of the owner as the next guy, and justifiably so more often than not through his tenure here. But through the 2010 season, the first of the new regime of Allan and Shanahan, I have nothing but praise for him finally "getting it", and giving us what we've wanted for so long.

Long may he continue in his new guise.

Hail.

PS There's no "future" option on the poll before someone asks as I want to try gauge just what we feel about him at this moment in time.

No idea. I'm hopeful but as the saying goes, burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me. As long it appears he's keeping his nose out of it I'll give him the benefit of the doubt (whatever that means) but it's going to take a long time before I'll fully trust that things have changed.

To early to tell.

Two of those choices are essentially the same thing. How about:

A leopard never changes his spots

Too early to tell but optimistic

Too early to tell but pessimistic

Yes, he's the next coming

'K, I get the reticence given what went before.

But as we currently stand today, are you happy with what the new way the owners going around things the past year or so? I ask as many don't appear to be, no matter what he does.

Hail.

You will regret this thread when the world ends on May 21st, 2011.

Too early to tell but optimistic

Too early to tell but pessimistic

I was looking for a "here and now" kind of reaction, but upon reflection I'd add those two options if I had a freaking clue how to edit a poll. Darn it.

Hail.

Anyone not knowing this already, GHH was speaking about me when he wrote that in yellow.

About this post way to manipulate the vote choices to gear them towards what you want to hear.

Seriously would it have been too difficult for the votes to just be a simple "Yes/NO/Too Early to tell" instead of editorializing like you did? While some may not have any problems forgiving our embarrassing owner like you do, others feel quite differently about him like I do. But with those silly votes I doubt anyone would want to vote either way.

I think your fooling yourself with the belief that the only thing that Snyders done wrong is on the football field. He's alienated tons of fans with the way he's gutted this community and turned this proud franchise into the corporate joke it is today. And the McNabb trade had nothing to do with Snyder. I do not understand your logic behind your comment that

"you can only judge a guy on what he's currently doing"

Snyder went into the shadows with Vinny because really what other choice did the man have? The fans have been complaining about how he's run this team since his very beginnings of firing Norv to replacing Brad Johnson with Jeff George to firing Marty and on and on. And they've been complaining about him off the field from his actions suing fans, to rasing the price on just about everything, to commercializing the stadium so bad its like a lifeless soul now. For 11 years we've been unhappy with this man and you suddenly expect everyone to be like you and give him forgiveness for those past 11 years? Sorry but life and reality just don't work like that.

Has he changed? Yes. Is the change permanent? I doubt it. Do I forgive him? Not yet. Can I forget and forgive? Yes but it's way too early for that

I love lamp!

It's dead Jim

:beatdeadhorse:

In all seriousness, do we really need a poll for this subject? It's just been talked to death over and over here. Please let the lockout end so we can actually talk about football again.

I think he is different on the football side. He has done what it takes to win a SB as far as giving football people 100% control. The only question is the guys who now wield the power (personally I like where we are with Mike and Bruce, mistakes and all). Same as at the franchises we point to as what we wanted.

The only problem is he has a way of coming across badly in the media. Trying to control it hasn't worked and never will. As to whether he is a **** or not doesn't bother me now Bruce is on board to be the corporate face.

how can he be considered cunning when his past method of building a winner was not cunning at all but obvious and ultimately short-sighted?

although people do love to hate, so there may be the possibility Snyder has been cunning all along and embraced the "Vince McMahon" owner persona. That's probably reaching though.

and I've said previously we won't likely really know if the "leopard changed his spots" unless the team fails but builds correctly and he sticks by Shanny or at least retains Allen as GM. If the team becomes a consistent winner and contender, then Shanny and Allen stay and the next HC hire, if Kyle doesn't inherit, will be left to Allen. IMO.

He listened.

It took him a decade of stubbornly thinking he knew best, and making the same repeated mistakes, but he finally listened and gave us what we've craved for so long. The football side has now been fully handed over to proper football people, with the once meddling, megalomaniac owner...............

GHH, its a misperception that Snyder has meddled all those years.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8200e43f/article/snyder-on-football-operations-i-dont-want-to-be-involved

Owner Daniel Snyder brought in coach Mike Shanahan and general manager Bruce Allen to guide the Redskins out of the shadows, and he has no intentions to step on their toes.

Snyder told NBC Washington on Thursday that the perception that he's hands-on -- perhaps overly so -- with football decisions is incorrect.

"You know what’s interesting ... is a little bit of a misperception here," Snyder said. "When Joe Gibbs was here for over four seasons, nobody came to talk to me about football, and the same thing now. It was very similar between Mike Shanahan and Joe Gibbs, that they take command of the football team, and I love that.

You don't have to change much in order to hire a new some new executives to replace the old. Him taking his own hands off of football ops is simply saying "I'm not doing that job anymore".

The point is that the new Snyder didn't really have to do much in order to "change".

Anyone not knowing this already, GHH was speaking about me when he wrote that in yellow.

About this post way to manipulate the vote choices to gear them towards what you want to hear.

How you figure? Besides the fact I don't much care how a poll would fall, outside of pure curiosity, there's options either way for what people think he's done to date since he gave what many had been crying out for. Which is what I was looking for. I don't see how it's swayed one way or the other.

Seriously would it have been too difficult for the votes to just be a simple "Yes/NO/Too Early to tell" instead of editorializing like you did? While some may not have any problems forgiving our embarrassing owner like you do, others feel quite differently about him like I do. But with those silly votes I doubt anyone would want to vote either way.

See above. Sorry I didn't word the yes/no options exactly to your satisfaction. And I don't totally forgive him for what's gone before. But I can't see the point in continuing to castigate a man at every verse end when he's now doing what so many asked of him. When you continue to blindly do that, you become as bad as the guy your castigating.

I think your fooling yourself with the belief that the only thing that Snyders done wrong is on the football field. He's alienated tons of fans with the way he's gutted this community and turned this proud franchise into the corporate joke it is today. And the McNabb trade had nothing to do with Snyder. I do not understand your logic behind your comment that

"you can only judge a guy on what he's currently doing"

Of course there's been bigger issues with what he's done to the football team. Nobody in their right mind would deny that. But continue to read more into things than what's actually said in countless threads on this and just pick parts to suit. I couldn't agree more he had nothing to do with any acquisitions this past year, but many still claim he did. And I think I've explained my view on "judging him on what he's currently doing", countless times. But you continue to take what you want to take from it.

Snyder went into the shadows with Vinny because really what other choice did the man have? The fans have been complaining about how he's run this team since his very beginnings of firing Norv to replacing Brad Johnson with Jeff George to firing Marty and on and on. And they've been complaining about him off the field from his actions suing fans, to rasing the price on just about everything, to commercializing the stadium so bad its like a lifeless soul now. For 11 years we've been unhappy with this man and you suddenly expect everyone to be like you and give him forgiveness for those past 11 years? Sorry but life and reality just don't work like that.

Again, we're going round in circles. I don't expect everything that went before to just be forgotten and everyone to fully forgive him. But a little adult decency when he is doing things right would be nice instead of continually throwing up his past misgivings thread in, thread out. It makes you or whomever come off as having a whole other agenda against the guy and this team.

Has he changed? Yes. Is the change permanent? I doubt it. Do I forgive him? Not yet. Can I forget and forgive? Yes but it's way too early for that

Fair enough. And I've zero problem with that, It's your prerogative and an understandably cautious approach. But again, to continually bash him for his past when he's doing the complete opposite at present is churlish in the extreme.

I was looking for a "here and now" kind of reaction, but upon reflection I'd add those two options if I had a freaking clue how to edit a poll. Darn it.

Hail.

As a fan of the team I want desperately to believe that he finally gets it. But having a brain I don't think you can see what has transpired in the past and not effect how you feel this will turn out. I'm not changing teams so I'll have to make out the best I can which sometimes means deluding myself. But put a good product on the field consistently and all will be forgiven.

None of the above.

A. Danny is still a crappy owner.

B. Even though he apparently isn't pulling strings in football like he used to. (Wait and see if Danny can stand it more than a year like w/Schottenhiemer.)

C. Untrue. People can change.

D. What?

how can he be considered cunning when his past method of building a winner was not cunning at all but obvious and shortsighted

So hiring a win now coach and a yes man GM is not shortsighted?

Every time a few stories/statements come out that kinda show that Snyder isn't that bad, I've heard stories not long afterwards showing the opposite. I won't believe it until I see it for a few years.

how can he be considered cunning when his past method of building a winner was not cunning at all but obvious and ultimately short-sighted?

I was playing around with the "cunning" line in terms of him being the same as his previous persona, but fooling everyone on the outside into thinking he's changed.

Hail.

First time in his tenure that he has hired a GM...first time in his career that he has gone more than 12 months without Vinny at his side...first time in his tenure that Snyder has done everything his detractors said he should have been doing all along.

So, yeah, I'll go ahead and buy that he has changed and is a "new" owner..."cynicism" does not equal "truth".

So hiring a win now coach and a yes man GM is not shortsighted?

Jim Zorn and Cerrato are gone.

This draft shows Shanny isn't just about "win now," and other than your conjecture, what solid evidence do you have that Allen is a yes man? I guess when you're obsessed with hating on one man to the point you'll never concede any of his positives but will over-exaggerate and fabricate the negatives then you'd come up with such a post as yours.

A purely win now coach would have drafted Gabbert instead of being patient at the QB position, a yes man GM would be allowing Snyder to have his say and would be going nuts in FA, instead of handing out reasonable contracts like Allen has been doing and not overbidding for players (like with Atogwe we made an offer, let him see what else was out there, and patiently waited to see if he would choose use, in years past Atogwe would have gotten a ridiculous contract while being wined and dined in DC).

I went with option 1, but only because I have this underlying fear like many of us do, that he can and will slip back into his old ways if patience is required....it's really a toss up with "I love lamp."

The correct answer to the poll is "I love lamp"

With that out of the way, I believe that he has realized that he doesn't know enough about football to interfere with the football operations of the franchise. The reasons that I dislike him have little to do with that however, and more to do with his off field behavior. I dont think I will ever like him, but he is starting to earn a little respect. Once the wins start to be amassed on the field then he will get more respect. It is as simple as that.

Danny is a star ****er. No other way to say it. Danny still went "big" in bringing in Shanahan and to a lesser extent Allen, whose name is royalty in this area thanks to his dad.

I'll believe Danny has changed as an owner when we have a no name GM and a no name coach and Danny stays out of the football ops. So far that trifecta has never once happened.

I also believe he will never change when it comes to being an arrogant corporate daddy's boy with a little man's complex who is a grade A prick.