Amnesty International: "Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time"

[ntotoro]

I'd personally find these comments extremely offensive if I were a survivor of or a relative of a survivor of the Russian gulags. It seems these groups have nothing better to do than make huge, splashing soundbytes like this. Maybe they should concentrate more on making sure that Islamic groups stop detaining people and sawing off their heads or shooting down helicopters, then gunning down the lone survivor. That might actually help.

Link

Amnesty Takes Aim at 'Gulag' in Guantanamo

By PAISLEY DODDS, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 51 minutes ago

LONDON - Amnesty International branded the U.S. prison camp at Guantanamo Bay a human rights failure Wednesday, calling it "the gulag of our time" as it released a report that offers stinging criticism of the United States and its detention centers around the world.

The 308-page report accused the United States of shirking its responsibility to set the bar for human rights protections and said Washington has instead created a new lexicon for abuse and torture. Amnesty International called for the camp to be closed.

"Attempts to dilute the absolute ban on torture through new policies and quasi-management speak, such as 'environmental manipulation, stress positions and sensory manipulation,' was one of the most damaging assaults on global values," the annual report said.

Some 540 prisoners from about 40 countries are being held at the U.S. detention center in Cuba. More than 200 others have been released, though some have been jailed in their countries; many have been held for three years without charge.

"Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time," Amnesty Secretary General Irene Khan said.

A spokesman for the

Department of Defense declined to comment on the report, saying he had not seen it. But Navy Lt. Cmdr. Joe Carpenter said the U.S. government continues to be a leader in human rights, treating detainees humanely and investigating all claims of abuse.

At least 10 cases of abuse or mistreatment have been documented and investigated at Guantanamo. Several other cases are pending.

"During the year, released detainees alleged that they had been tortured or ill-treated while in U.S. custody in

Afghanistan and Guantanamo. Evidence also emerged that others, including Federal Bureau of Investigation agents and the International Committee of the Red Cross, had found that such abuses had been committed against detainees," the report said.

The Geneva-based ICRC is the only independent group to have access to the Guantanamo detainees. Amnesty has been refused access to the prison camp, although it was allowed to watch the pretrial hearings for the military commissions. The commissions, which could try 15 prisoners facing charges, were stalled by a U.S. court's decision that is under appeal.

"There's a myth going around that there's some kind of rule of law being applied," said Rob Freer, an Amnesty official who specializes in detention issues.

Amnesty acknowledged the human rights deficiencies came with a rash of terrorist actions, including the televised beheadings of captives in

Iraq.

Still, the group said, governments forgot many victims in the fight against terrorism.

Khan singled out Sudan as one of the worst human rights violations of last year, saying that not only had the Sudanese government turned its back on its own people, but that the

United Nations and the African Union acted too late to help.

She also said the African Union needed to do more about speaking out against human rights abuses in Africa, singling out Zimbabwe. She talked about human rights failures being compounded by big business' complicity.

Amnesty's report also pointed to Haiti, saying human rights violators were allowed to regain positions of power after armed rebels and former soldiers ousted former President Jean-Bertrand Aristide last year.

Amnesty said Congo's government offered no effective response to the systematic rape of tens of thousands of women and children and warned of a downward spiral of lawlessness and instability in Afghanistan.

In Asia, the report said violence and discrimination against women was rampant last year, ranging from acid attacks for unpaid dowries in Bangladesh to forced abortion in China, rape by soldiers in Nepal and domestic beatings in Australia.

Amnesty also said the ouster of the conservative Islamic Taliban regime in 2001 by U.S.-led forces did little to bring relief to women.

In the western Herat region, Amnesty reported that hundreds of women had set fire to themselves to escape violence in the home or forced marriage.

"Fear of abductions by armed groups forced women to restrict their movements outside the home," Amnesty said. Even within families, "extreme restrictions" on women's behavior and high levels of violence persisted, it said.

While criticizing the detention mission at Guantanamo, Amnesty said one sign of hope was the

U.S. Supreme Court's decision in June that let prisoners challenge the basis of their detention. It also said it was encouraging that Britain's high court lords ruled on the indefinite detention without charge or trial of "terrorist suspects."

"The challenge for the human rights movement is to harness the power of civil society and push governments to deliver on their human rights promises," Khan said.

[Baculus]

Compared to the gulags, that may be a bit of a reach, but Camp X-Ray isn't exactly a shining example of American justice. Which is sad, really - all in the name of the War on Terror. We have hundreds of folks that have been held and released, with zero due process, after being held for years.

Oh yeah, if you mention the idea that such a camp is counter to American ideals, somehow, YOU'RE the traitor, right?

Personally, I am embarrased when I think about Camp Guantanamo. I remember, as a Boy Scout, being taught about American fair play and values, and this does not seem like it.

[dreamingwolf]

a bit of a reach? you guys are really amazing

[Kilmer17]

GitMo is a prisoner of war camp. They are treated as such. If they didnt want this kind of treatment, they should have thoght twice about taking up arms against the US.

[ntotoro]

Originally posted by dreamingwolf

a bit of a reach? you guys are really amazing

I hope you mean Amnesty International is really reaching here. I'd be offended if I were someone with more than just a passing knowledge of the Russian gulags.

Nick

[dreamingwolf]

ya ntotoro not you

[ntotoro]

Aight, mang...

[portisizzle]

Originally posted by Baculus

Compared to the gulags, that may be a bit of a reach, but Camp X-Ray isn't exactly a shining example of American justice. Which is sad, really - all in the name of the War on Terror. We have hundreds of folks that have been held and released, with zero due process, after being held for years.

Oh yeah, if you mention the idea that such a camp is counter to American ideals, somehow, YOU'RE the traitor, right?

Personally, I am embarrased when I think about Camp Guantanamo. I remember, as a Boy Scout, being taught about American fair play and values, and this does not seem like it.

Dude, these people are pigs that attach explosive to their bodies and kill innocent lives. They are animals.

PLUS, they are getting better food, better treatment, better Koran copies then they EVER got out of their pitiful lives as sheep in the middle east. WTF do you want? Denny's breakfast and fresh serta mattresses.

Or better yet, lets send them back home so they can be part of the resistance in the middle east.

C'mon PS. That's a little much, dontcha think? -Henry

[Larry]

Originally posted by Kilmer17

GitMo is a prisoner of war camp. They are treated as such. If they didnt want this kind of treatment, they should have thoght twice about taking up arms against the US.

No, it isn't.

PoWs aren't allowed to be removed from their country of capture. (Don't remember the exact wording.)

(It's that whole Geneva Convention that doesn't apply to the "new kind of war" thing, remember?)

They're also allowed to communicate with their families. (Subject to monitoring, to make shure they're not sending coded messages.)

The capturing country is required to make timely notification that they've been captured.

[Kilmer17]

Originally posted by Larry

No, it isn't.

PoWs aren't allowed to be removed from their country of capture. (Don't remember the exact wording.)

(It's that whole Geneva Convention that doesn't apply to the "new kind of war" thing, remember?)

They're also allowed to communicate with their families. (Subject to monitoring, to make shure they're not sending coded messages.)

The capturing country is required to make timely notification that they've been captured.

If that is true, I'd like to see proof, then I'll readily change my opinion.

There's a different argument to be made for ignoring the Geneva convention, but lacking that, we need to adhere to it for now. So if we cant remove them from the country of capture, then this is a serious problem.

[E-Dog Night]

Originally posted by Kilmer17

GitMo is a prisoner of war camp. They are treated as such. If they didnt want this kind of treatment, they should have thoght twice about taking up arms against the US.

Except not everyone there is guilty of "taking up arms against the US." They are being detained for much longer than is allowed according to US law without trial. Many of them have been held over two years without so much as a hearing. They are presumed guilty until proven innocent - and many of them are in fact innocent.

See, this is exactly what the terrorists wanted. We are circumventing our own ideals, laws and principals to imprison people who are not terrorists!

It is quite ironic that so many people who wrap themselves around the American flag in support of George Bush welcome these totally un-American practices, and that Bush spews his hollow rhetoric about freedom while denying freedom to so many who deserve it.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1406987,00.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/16/60II/main573616.shtml

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/americas/03/12/ret.guantanamo.detainees/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_X-Ray

http://www.guantanamohrc.org/

http://www.prisonerswithouttrials.net/

[SkinsHokieFan]

Originally posted by E-Dog Night

They are presumed guilty until proven innocent - and many of them are in fact innocent.

See, this is exactly what the terrorists wanted. We are circumventing our own ideals, laws and principals to imprison people who are not terrorists!

/[/url]

I am just curious either A) how you know they are innocent and how they are not guilty

Basically these fools were caught on the battlefield and brought to GITMO

And as long as they are where they are they are not breeding and manipulating other people in Afghanistan like Mullah Omar would want them to do

[Kilmer17]

Originally posted by E-Dog Night

Except not everyone there is guilty of "taking up arms against the US." They are being detained for much longer than is allowed according to US law without trial. Many of them have been held over two years without so much as a hearing. They are presumed guilty until proven innocent - and many of them are in fact innocent.

See, this is exactly what the terrorists wanted. We are circumventing our own ideals, laws and principals to imprison people who are not terrorists!

It is quite ironic that so many people who wrap themselves around the American flag in support of George Bush welcome these totally un-American practices, and that Bush spews his hollow rhetoric about freedom while denying freedom to so many who deserve it.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1406987,00.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/16/60II/main573616.shtml

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/americas/03/12/ret.guantanamo.detainees/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_X-Ray

http://www.guantanamohrc.org/

http://www.prisonerswithouttrials.net/

US laws dont apply to prisoners of war.

Larry may have a good point about us violating the Geneva Convention (although I cant find a link to prove it), but there is no violation of US law.

[dreamingwolf]

nm

[Predicto]

As Americans, we like to think that our sh*t don't stink. We can do no wrong.

Sorry, we are a great country with great ideals that has accomplished great things and is entitled to defend itself... but what is going on at Guantanamo still stinks and it is not unpatriotic to say so.

[Kilmer17]

Originally posted by Predicto

As Americans, we like to think that our sh*t don't stink. We can do no wrong.

Sorry, we are a great country with great ideals that has accomplished great things and is entitled to defend itself... but what is going on at Guantanamo still stinks and it is not unpatriotic to say so.

SPEICIFICALLY, what is "going on at GitMo" that stinks?

[Fatty P For The Pulitzer]

Questions: Are we forcing the prisoners to do hard, physical labor? How many of these prisoners have died because of the "horrible" conditions? And these conditions, would they be considered inhumane? Gulag is not a term that should be thrown around at a prison with bad conditions. Sh1thole? Yeah, I'll buy that. But these thugs who are there are the scum of the Earth, and those who are released are not exactly innocent. We didn't just grab random Afghans and Pakistanians off of the streets. All of these prisoners were pulled off the battlefields. Those who were released maybe weren't actively attacking our troops, but they were associating themselves with terrorists. They should've considered the consequences before they were caught with terrorists.

As for the gulags, they had extremely hard, forced labor, inhumane conditions (sleeping outside with no shelter in Siberia), and some of them had death rates around 80%. X-Ray is like a Holiday Inn compared to the gulags.

[redman]

Amnesty International discredits itself when it takes shots at the U.S. like this, especially given its relative silence over ongoing Chinese atrocities towards prisoners, etc. There are literally tens of millions of prisoners worldwide, many of whom are imprisoned and tortured for what they believe rather than what they have done, who have it far worse than the 500 terrorst a-holes in Guantanamo who are getting 3 squares a day, prayer mats, and neverending apologies over desecration of the Koran.

[Baculus]

I read The Gulag Archipelago, by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, so I am a little familiar with these camps. But it's not a good idea to say "because X isn't like y, then it's ok!"

And there have been instances where some of the prisoners at Camp X-ray were folks who were caught up in sweeps. We immediately assume that everyone in this camp is an enemy combatant of some type, when we do not know.

If this is a POW camp, and we are in a war without end, since there has never been a cease of hostilities with a specific nation, then what do you do with them? Just simply keep them for years and years? You're assuming that everyone in the camp is simply a terrorist: Painting everyone as the enemy and in absolute black and whites. That's the same way that jihadists think, too.

Is war harsh and unfair sometimes? Yes. Does that mean we can't make mistakes? No. And does that also mean that these mistakes may be sitting in Camp X-ray. Yes.

[Ghost of]

You're not allowed to take POWS out of their country of capture? Huh?

Why were German POWs held in the US, then?

[The Evil Genius]

Ghost,

Were they German POW's or German American people rounded up in "protection camps"?

[The Evil Genius]

If anyone has time..here is the Article of the Geneva convention that speaks about POW treatment.

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm

[Ghost of]

TEG

No, actual German soldiers.

[codeorama]

Actual German Soldiers were held in the US, I remember seeing a History channel show about it. There were German Troops held in England as well... I just watched a HC show on the Hurricane that Saved London and they showed the gravesites of some of the Germans that died in captivity.

[The Evil Genius]

Thanks - did not know that!

As for the Geneva convention - there is this article which I think the US has been negligent so far on...

Article 103

Judicial investigations relating to a prisoner of war shall be conducted as rapidly as circumstances permit and so that his trial shall take place as soon as possible. A prisoner of war shall not be confined while awaiting trial unless a member of the armed forces of the Detaining Power would be so confined if he were accused of a similar offence, or if it is essential to do so in the interests of national security. In no circumstances shall this confinement exceed three months.

Any period spent by a prisoner of war in confinement awaiting trial shall be deducted from any sentence of imprisonment passed upon him and taken into account in fixing any penalty.

However, I am not sure if the people currently being held at Getmo are actually classified as POW's. I remember reading somewhere else that "terrorists" are not afforded POW status. Suspecting that those at Getmo are classified by the U.S. as "terrorists".