Buck812 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Gibbs has already stated that if he thought it was as simple as a QB change issue, he would have already changed QBs, but he feels the problem is bigger then that, and there are problems Ramsey couldn't single handedly fix. I wonder if Ramsey would miss some of those passes so badly. Especially the one where coles was open deep and Brunell threw it 10 yards out of bounds or of the ones that hit the recievers feet. I just dont think its possible for any other qb to play as badly. Hell, I didnt think it was possible for Brunell to play this badly. Now my personal preference has been Ramsey, since day one, and I still would like to see him in there, but then again there is a reason I am not a 3-time superbowl winning coach. I certainly dont claim to be a 3 time superbowl winning coach either. I also never claimed to be a mechanic, but when a car has a flat tire I know to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Let me be the 1st to say I hope the Skinz turn the season around. This team however isn't being built for the long haul. You don't sign people to major major contracts in todays NFL and say in the future we'll get better. The Skins signings this past off season indicated that their ready to win right now. If they finish with a losing record, Ramsey being on the bench serves no purpose to me. Look at all the young QB's around the league putting in work getting experience. They make bone head misktakes from time to time. Ramsey for what its worth as a starter of 16 games over 2 years had over 3000yds 23td's and 17ints. This despite getting beat up. Ramsey can't play any worse than Brunell. And if he does, I'd rather it be him (Ramsey) rather than Brunell. Brunell has been a complete bust thus far. A 3rd round pick and 45 million dollar contract. The Beagles, Patriots and Ravens have core players they drafted along with a few sprinkled free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by tvan History shows that QB's developr best behind a clipboard rather than center.:logo: Which history are you talking about? P Manning? D Culpepper? D Carr? J Harrington? B Leftwich? D McNabb? Rothlesburger? All of them were starters either their rookie season or by the begining of their second year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerpsEagles Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 How many draft picks do you guys have next year ? I'm not trolling.... just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dexter's Better Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin Um, so he's going to put in Ramsey to develop him right? No Ramsey needs to sit on the sidelines for at least the rest of this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dexter's Better Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by TerpsEagles How many draft picks do you guys have next year ? I'm not trolling.... just curious I believe we only have 5. 1st 3rd 4th 6th & 7th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by NoCalMike I know in today's NFL culture, every team expects to win every year, but listening to the Joe Gibbs show and his reasoning behind letting Kenyette Jones go, I am convinced that Gibbs is content on with building this team for the long run and is willing to sacrifice winning NOW, for that goal. He said they like the two young tackles, and want to develop them and it was something as an organization they needed to to(letting Jones go) in order to further their development as a team. This has got me excited, because we have tried to build a winner through FA the last five years and it hasn't produced squat....THANK GOODNESS FOR JOE GIBBS. In 3 years the team he is building will have serious cap problems due to his building efforts. If he was building for the future he didnt need to overpay a old QB, he should have got a young one and saved the draft pick. Building for future years is a excuse, we have been doing that for a decade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaadin123 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by arkowi Ramsey is on the bench, not becase he is not ready for the offense. Gibbs is waiting till the offense is ready for Ramsey. Interesting point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbovey Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin No, I didn't. Palmer still looks like a rookie and he SAT THE ENTIRE YEAR behind a much more effective QB. What's odd about this situation is that I feel Ramsey would be the more effective QB with all the reps and the starter's role from Day One, and Brunell is playing(and terribly.) Look at Carr, harrington, Leftwich, etc...they all played almost from the beginning. While you're at it, look at Chad Pennington, Steve Young, Steve McNair and a host of other QBs who sat and learned a little while before being thrown to the wolves. Take a look at Gibbs' success with grooming QBs. He knows what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riggins44 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by tvan History shows that QB's developr best behind a clipboard rather than center.:logo: Grasshopper, when you can snatch the pebble from my hand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbovey Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Skinsfan1966 In 3 years the team he is building will have serious cap problems due to his building efforts. If he was building for the future he didnt need to overpay a old QB, he should have got a young one and saved the draft pick. Building for future years is a excuse, we have been doing that for a decade He's building the team the way he always has, letting his young QBs learn behind a smart veteran QB. Ramsey never had a mentor and was poorly coached his first two seasons in the league. He was battered and beaten on a weekly basis and it's not going to hurt him to sit for a while and learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinnedAussie Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 So, signing a 10-year vet to back-up a 41 year old is looking to the future? I wonder how much influence Mr. Snyder had in that decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by dfbovey He's building the team the way he always has, letting his young QBs learn behind a smart veteran QB. Ramsey never had a mentor and was poorly coached his first two seasons in the league. He was battered and beaten on a weekly basis and it's not going to hurt him to sit for a while and learn. Coach Gibbs didnt build the team he had in the past.... the GM did and in that era there was no salary cap. So Ramsey is going to learn behind a woefully inept QB? Get real, what is Ramsey going to learn from a QB whose QB rating is only better than 2 starters? I know that there are people who think supporting Brunell is a good way of showing their support for Gibbs but Brunell was a mistake; a 7 year $42 mil contract? A 3rd round pick for a guy that was going to get cut? You cant tell me there were not better, cheaper options. I can think of several off the top of my head, Warner, Garcia, Collins, Griese, Testaverde. All were free agents or were cut by their teams, all are cheaper in relation to the cap, all are performing better on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbovey Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Signing Brunell and at the same time keeping Ramsey was an attempt to not only win NOW, but also keep the team set up for the future. I don't know why that's so hard to see. It's this philosophy that helped Gibbs win 3 Superbowls with 3 different QBs. He also groomed other QBs that went on to the Superbowl with other teams (Stan Humphries). The guy knows what he's doing. Brunell hasn't played as well as he probably thought he would, but the season is still relatively young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Oh, there are those who see the Big Picture out here. In fact, some of us write about it once a week. We just tire of writing about it 50 times a day, like the Screw The Big Picture, The Only Thing That Matters Is To Win This Week's Game seem compelled to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 That Gibbs is one stupid ass coach (sarcasm) He hasn't got a clue, (sarcasm again) he should console with the coaching gurues on this site (once again,................. sarcasm). I know its good for conversation, but honestly, who would you rather have at the helm running this show?............. he knows what he is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbovey Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Skinsfan1966 Coach Gibbs didnt build the team he had in the past.... the GM did and in that era there was no salary cap. He's still building the team the way he used to as much as possible given the Salary Cap. So Ramsey is going to learn behind a woefully inept QB? Get real, what is Ramsey going to learn from a QB whose QB rating is only better than 2 starters? His performance aside, you don't think that Brunell has knowledge to pass on to a guy like Ramsey? He's played how many years in the NFL at a high level? And you don't think he has knowledge to pass on to a young guy? You cant tell me there were not better, cheaper options. I can think of several off the top of my head, Warner, Garcia, Collins, Griese, Testaverde. All were free agents or were cut by their teams, all are cheaper in relation to the cap, all are performing better on the field [/b] Hindsite is always 20/20 and Monday Morning QBs are always right. At the time, ALL of the guys you just mentioned had even more questions about them than Brunell did. Also at the time, not all of those QBs were available to Gibbs. Brunell was definately the best choice at the time. I will agree that we gave him way too much money though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Skinsfan1966 Brunell was a mistake; a 7 year $42 mil contract? A 3rd round pick for a guy that was going to get cut? Backloaded contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Om Oh, there are those who see the Big Picture out here. In fact, some of us write about it once a week. We just tire of writing about it 50 times a day, like the Screw The Big Picture, The Only Thing That Matters Is To Win This Week's Game seem compelled to. Maybe I just dont see the same "big picture" you guys do... I think Coach Gibbs was hoping to win this year...and thats why he brought in Brunell, he cant pull him, it would be a admission that Brunell was a mistake. What is the long term impact of bringing Brunell in? Is Ramsey learning anything from him? If so, what? Maybe to throw the ball away but what else? How to throw check down passes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgunner Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 What a concept develop our O line first then put PR in there. I like it. The waiting in the meantime is killing me watching, Bruny take us all down.:puke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by barefoot Originally posted by Skinsfan1966 Brunell was a mistake; a 7 year $42 mil contract? A 3rd round pick for a guy that was going to get cut? Backloaded contract. The draft pick wasnt backloaded nor was the signing bonus, the last 3 years are voidable that means he is a 1.9 mil cap hit this year, 3.2 mil next year 5.2 mil in 2006 and 7.6 mil in 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by barefoot That Gibbs is one stupid ass coach (sarcasm) He hasn't got a clue, (sarcasm again) he should console with the coaching gurues on this site (once again,................. sarcasm). I know its good for conversation, but honestly, who would you rather have at the helm running this show?............. he knows what he is doing. He needs a good GM, I think all Coachs do, to manage the cap, run the scout teams etc Bobby Beathard built the teams that Coach Gibbs took to those 3 superbowls. Should Coach Gibbs have input? Of course, should he have the final say? Nope, there are bigger considerations, like the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbovey Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Maybe you should wait more than 6 games into the season to question how Gibbs is building this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 This is a Joe Gibbs team, not a Mark Brunell or Patrick Ramsey team. The Super Bowl winning teams of the 80s/90s were Joe Gibbs teams as well. They all took time to blossom and if this team is going ANYWHERE, it will also take time to blossom. The QBs had to wait their turn back then and it paid off. We have to understand that Joe's gonna make Patrick wait his turn. Hopefully, it'll pay off as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 The difference is that the QB's that waited in line back then were there because the starter was still productive and won games that they wouldn't. Thats not the case here. Ramsey would have to really suck and we would be drafting a QB next year if he was worse than Brunell. He could learn much more from Brunell with Brunell on the sideline. Whats Brunell teaching him anyway? "Did you see that 3 yard throw at Coles feet on 3rd and 8? Thats what you need to do Ramsey" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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