dfbovey Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Some people just can't see the forest past the trees. :doh: Brunell and Ramsey spent alot of time together in the offseason, and I believe Ramsey himself was quoted as saying that Brunell has given him alot of valuable advice. Think about it logicly for a few seconds. Mark Brunell has been in the league a long time. He knows a few tricks of the trade. Despite his poor performance so far, he has been a good mentor for Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Chachie This is a Joe Gibbs team, not a Mark Brunell or Patrick Ramsey team. The Super Bowl winning teams of the 80s/90s were Joe Gibbs teams as well. They all took time to blossom and if this team is going ANYWHERE, it will also take time to blossom. The QBs had to wait their turn back then and it paid off. We have to understand that Joe's gonna make Patrick wait his turn. Hopefully, it'll pay off as well. Gibbs the GM I don't know about. Gibbs the coach I can deal with. Brunell is a mistake period. It won't be the 1st time Gibbs has missed on a QB. He admitted before that he shoulda never cut Stan Humphries. Sometimes a coach and GM bump heads but a coach can be coach without trying to GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by tvan History shows that QB's developr best behind a clipboard rather than center.:logo: Im sure Carson Palmer, David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Ben Rothlisberger will all agree with you :doh: Dammit Gibbs start grooming your QB of the future instead of making us endure an aging veteran that wont lose games for us but in return wont win games for us either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BleedinBurgundyandGold Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by DCMONEY Gibbs the GM I don't know about. Gibbs the coach I can deal with. Brunell is a mistake period. It won't be the 1st time Gibbs has missed on a QB. He admitted before that he shoulda never cut Stan Humphries. Sometimes a coach and GM bump heads but a coach can be coach without trying to GM. I definitly agree, however, I dont doubt for a second that his GMing in any way affects the he coachs. Brunell is still starting because Gibbs feels he needs a veteran QB and Ramsey hasn't shown him enough, NOT because he went out and signed Brunell to a huge deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by dfbovey Some people just can't see the forest past the trees. :doh: Brunell and Ramsey spent alot of time together in the offseason, and I believe Ramsey himself was quoted as saying that Brunell has given him alot of valuable advice. Think about it logicly for a few seconds. Mark Brunell has been in the league a long time. He knows a few tricks of the trade. Despite his poor performance so far, he has been a good mentor for Ramsey. Things like "Pat, when you are past your prime its important to sign a long term contract....look for coachs who are also GM, they love paying up"? Regarding Brunells knowing the tricks of the trade, I am sure he does, he would have a lot more time to write them down for Pat if he was standing on the sidelines with the clipboard. Thats what I dont get, people say Ramsey can learn from Brunells wisdom and experience... Brunell would be able to give Ramsey better advice if he was watching Ramsey instead of playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BleedinBurgundyandGold Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Oldskool Im sure Carson Palmer, David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Ben Rothlisberger will all agree with you :doh: Dammit Gibbs start grooming your QB of the future instead of making us endure an aging veteran that wont lose games for us but in return wont win games for us either. Maybe we should ask Steve McNair.....he started 6 total games in his first two years in the league and that was only because of injury to the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by BleedinBurgundyandGold Maybe we should ask Steve McNair.....he started 6 total games in his first two years in the league and that was only because of injury to the starter. Or Payton Manning, oh wait....he started right away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by BleedinBurgundyandGold Maybe we should ask Steve McNair.....he started 6 total games in his first two years in the league and that was only because of injury to the starter. Originally posted by Skinsfan1966 Or Payton Manning, oh wait....he started right away exactly. Even McNugget only waited a year to start all 16 games. McNair was the exception and he even started more games by this time than Ramsey has. McNair played in 16 games his first 2 years and started 6 of them. Thats on the job training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbovey Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Skinsfan1966 Regarding Brunells knowing the tricks of the trade, I am sure he does, he would have a lot more time to write them down for Pat if he was standing on the sidelines with the clipboard. Thats what I dont get, people say Ramsey can learn from Brunells wisdom and experience... Brunell would be able to give Ramsey better advice if he was watching Ramsey instead of playing. [/b] And that's probably why you aren't coaching this team and Gibbs is. Brunell gives this team a better chance of winning on Sunday. As bad as he's looked, Ramsey has looked worse. The minute you put Ramsey in, you are basicly telling the rest of the team that you are preparing for next year. I don't think that's the message that Gibbs wants to send only 6 weeks into the season. But that's besides the point. The point is that Brunell has been a good mentor for Ramsey, and Ramsey will be better in the long run having had a mentor like Brunell, and coaching from Burns and Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by dfbovey And that's probably why you aren't coaching this team and Gibbs is. Brunell gives this team a better chance of winning on Sunday. As bad as he's looked, Ramsey has looked worse. The minute you put Ramsey in, you are basicly telling the rest of the team that you are preparing for next year. I don't think that's the message that Gibbs wants to send only 6 weeks into the season. Thats horse*hit and you know it. If you throw Ramsey in youre telling the team that you know the future is now, that the defense can only carry us so far and its time to right to light up this offense. Besides we've seen Ramsey once and he almost won us a game that Brunell was less than useful in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbovey Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Skinsfan1966 Or Payton Manning, oh wait....he started right away Or Pennington, since he started right away... This list could be split about 50/50 and go on all day. Bottom line is that Ramsey isn't any of these guys. He's not Manning, he's not Pennington and he's not McNair. Different situation entirely. And in this situation, I trust Gibbs 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by dfbovey And that's probably why you aren't coaching this team and Gibbs is. Brunell gives this team a better chance of winning on Sunday. As bad as he's looked, Ramsey has looked worse. The minute you put Ramsey in, you are basicly telling the rest of the team that you are preparing for next year. I don't think that's the message that Gibbs wants to send only 6 weeks into the season. But that's besides the point. The point is that Brunell has been a good mentor for Ramsey, and Ramsey will be better in the long run having had a mentor like Brunell, and coaching from Burns and Gibbs. How can you say that Brunell is a good mentor? since he arrived Ramsey has played horrible (according to you) I think Coach Gibbs is a great coach but a sub par GM, he has to play Brunell given what he paid Brunell. You are wrong if you think putting Ramsey in tells the team you are giving up on the season; putting Ramsey in does tell everyone that Brunell was a mistake though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by dfbovey Or Pennington, since he started right away... This list could be split about 50/50 and go on all day. Bottom line is that Ramsey isn't any of these guys. He's not Manning, he's not Pennington and he's not McNair. Different situation entirely. And in this situation, I trust Gibbs 100%. If Brunell was lighting it up I would agree, If Brunell was even dimly lighting it up I would agree. But he isnt.... he is the worst qb in the nfl with at least 6 starts this season, and our record reflects that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Actually Dfbovey I don't think the team would interpret it as us preparing for next year by playing Ramsey. They've seen Brunell sucking big time. They've also seen Ramsey play quite well last season. I think they'd interpret it as Gibbs trying another QB to see if we can get a little more production than 80-100 yards out of the passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbovey Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Oldskool Thats horse*hit and you know it. If you throw Ramsey in youre telling the team that you know the future is now, that the defense can only carry us so far and its time to right to light up this offense. Besides we've seen Ramsey once and he almost won us a game that Brunell was less than useful in. No, I don't know it and neither do you. But what I DO know is that I trust the opinion of Joe Gibbs more than I would any fan on this message board. That's not a slight against you or anything, but seriously. And while Ramsey could have won that Giants game, he didn't. Instead he threw 3 INTs in one half of play and contributed to the loss. He's looked no better than Brunell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman44 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 You can argue about this all you want, but both ways can work, some qbs started right away and had success in their 1st year or 2nd year (P Manning, Leftwich, MacNabb), others sat for a year or two and then were successful, (Brady, McNair, Farve). Either way, you can succeed if your talented. The issue to me is I would rather roll the dice with Ramsey, because Brunnell has played terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbovey Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Skinsfan1966 How can you say that Brunell is a good mentor? since he arrived Ramsey has played horrible (according to you) So do you think Ramsey is lying when he says that Brunell has given him alot of valuable advice? I think Coach Gibbs is a great coach but a sub par GM, he has to play Brunell given what he paid Brunell. No, he doesn't. If Ramsey had won the starting job in the preseason money wouldn't have mattered. Or do you think that splitting the reps and playing time in the preseason was a total fabrication? If Gibbs was resigned to playing Brunell he would have given him more reps to build chemistry with his wide outs. Instead Ramsey had equal time. The money thing is total BS. Gibbs plays the players that he thinks will give him the best chance at winning on Sunday. That is a coaching thing not a GM thing. You are wrong if you think putting Ramsey in tells the team you are giving up on the season; putting Ramsey in does tell everyone that Brunell was a mistake though [/b] I don't think I'm wrong at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakofthesouth Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Even though the title doesn't suggest it...I knew this huge thread would be about the QB controversy. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Anyone else tired of talking about Brunell? Why not talk about all of them? Banks George Mathews Weurfeul(?) Green.......... Get the point. Brunell is better than anything we've had lately even if he doesn't throw for over a 100 yards. Give it time people. Obviosly Gibbs is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Wingman44 You can argue about this all you want, but both ways can work, some qbs started right away and had success in their 1st year or 2nd year (P Manning, Leftwich, MacNabb), others sat for a year or two and then were successful, (Brady, McNair, Farve). Either way, you can succeed if your talented. The issue to me is I would rather roll the dice with Ramsey, because Brunnell has played terrible. Ramsey sat for a year too.... Farve played his second year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by wildbill Anyone else tired of talking about Brunell? Why not talk about all of them? Banks George Mathews Weurfeul(?) Green.......... Get the point. Brunell is better than anything we've had lately even if he doesn't throw for over a 100 yards. Give it time people. Obviosly Gibbs is. Actually... Brunell is right there with your above list, at least as far as QB ratings are concerned. But you are right they (and i include Brunell) all suck except trent greene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I've said from the beginning that Brunell shouldn't have been brought in here for what the Skins paid. If he was making around 1 or 2 mill, there's basically no discussion. I can't blame Brunell for taking the money, but we all could see his better days had passed him. Why give a 3rd rounder and give him nearly 9 million up front. That alone means he has to at least be average. He shouldn't need time to be average. If Brunell is a bust then the Skins failed miserably sigining him. He sucks so far. Gibbs is sticking with his decision because he's the one who lobbied so hard for him. Believe me if Brunell was making the veteran minimum he woulda been yanked by now. Funny thing is that Rasby and Kenyatta Jones have been demoted and cut for their lack of production. If I'm them, why in the hell is Brunell still starting. At least in Ramsey 16 total starts, he was damn good #'s all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins4Life Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 In all seriousness here folks, its all about keeping the faith in the system that Joe is trying to build here. This is exactly why I am so sick of this "we must win now" mentality that parity has brought to this league. Its obviously excessively high with the people on this board as well. There are some of us who don't necessarily feel the sudden urgency to "win now at all costs", especially when we definitely need a few pieces more (and which its obvious to everyone). Would I like to win this game against Green Bay?! Hell yes!! Would it completely alter my world if we didn't (unlike the Dallas game?) no, not really. And the urgency in my opinion to "win now at all costs" just doesn't justify the bigger picture that Gibbs is trying to build in this team. In time, the winning will come. And then we all will enjoy the fruits of our labor later, and it will be all the more sweeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan1966 Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by Redskins4Life In all seriousness here folks, its all about keeping the faith in the system that Joe is trying to build here. This is exactly why I am so sick of this "we must win now" mentality that parity has brought to this league. Its obviously excessively high with the people on this board as well. There are some of us who don't necessarily feel the sudden urgency to "win now at all costs", especially when we definitely need a few pieces more (and which its obvious to everyone). Would I like to win this game against Green Bay?! Hell yes!! Would it completely alter my world if we didn't (unlike the Dallas game?) no, not really. And the urgency in my opinion to "win now at all costs" just doesn't justify the bigger picture that Gibbs is trying to build in this team. In time, the winning will come. And then we all will enjoy the fruits of our labor later, and it will be all the more sweeter. Brunell got brought in because of the win now attitude, how do you build for the future with a guy who has already had his good days... Its not a need to win now, we wont win now or in the future with Brunell....dont you guys get that? Brunell isnt helping build a team, he is holding a team back Coach Gibbs should coach his young QB and get him in the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Originally posted by tvan History shows that QB's developr best behind a clipboard rather than center.:logo: If Ramsey doesn't play I'll be disappointed.......If he doesn't sit back for a year and learn the system I'll be disappointed. Both are good for him, I'll play along with anything gibbs wants to do. Everyone needs to stop thinking Ramsey is a vet and act like we just drafted him. Spurrier stunted his growth, let gibbs start over with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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