Bulldog Apologies To Brunell Posters

[O.S.F]

Is it just me, or are our current QB's the worst that Gibbs has had to work with?

This pretty much remind me of Joe T. in '81. He was happy like a kid in the candy store when he heard about Joe Gibbs coming from teh Air Coryell's Passing Academy. Well the first half of the season he looks as lost as Ramsey right now... (I'm trying to pull his stats using the database...). I dont know if you remember, but there was a story that Theisman came to Gibbs' house during the mid season to "clear the air"...

Coach put in the running game, get Joe to roll out of the pocket more. And the rest is history.

Give him more time w/ Ramsey and Brunell. He will observe what they do best, maximize their strenghts and minimize their weakness, and I'll bet that they will look as good as anyone that we remember.

JMHO

[bulldog]

Gardner is becoming an increasing liability. We seem to be depending on him more and he seems to be becoming even less reliable. One great catch followed by two drops on routine balls.

It's a shame McCants refuses to run full speed and with conviction in practice, because I think we could use his size and athleticism on the field on Sundays.

But Gibbs isn't going to activate and start McCants the way things stand now unless there are a wave of injuries.

[codeorama]

IMO, here's everything in a nutshell....

Ramsey is clearly more talented and has a huge upside, but letting him play now MAY cost the team wins, how many is unknown.

Brunell is over the hill, but I'm guessing that Gibbs doesn't want to go through growing pains with Ramsey. Again, just my speculation, but I'm sure Gibbs feels (or felt) that Brunell would make fewer mistakes than Ramsey and that the team could rely on the running game and defense while Ramsey learns the offense better.

What Gibbs thinks now, I don't know, but if Ramsey is going to be the starter, people need to be prepared to lose some games with some bone headed errors. Maybe that's best in the long term, maybe not, I don't really know, but that's why Gibbs gets paid the big bucks.

[bulldog]

the key is the mistakes. if the Redskins could continue to win these games ugly with Brunell making a Trent Dilfer like contribution (ie without the mistakes) then I agree that he will likely survive to the end of the season as the starter.

but his hamstring injury is bound to play into the decision-making. his limited arm needs the shifting pocket/rollouts to gain a clear field/line for his passing.

without that he is even more limited.

what's ironic is that since Ramsey arrived, everyone has tried to replace him with somebody else in the lineup, Spurrier with the ex-Gators and Gibbs with Brunell.

and yet Ramsey, like a rolling penny, keeps ending up on the field as the other qbs fail to impress.

[jbooma]

What hurt Brunell was all those dam reverse plays, we didn't have one of our starting tackles and Gibbs was trying to be tricky, which wasn't a good time to be doing it.

[bulldog]

as a sideline, didn't you get a chuckle out of Parcells and that short-snapped punt to Dexter Coakley?

Parcells is all tough talk and old school on the surface, but in games he is at times a real gambler.

[jbooma]

Originally posted by bulldog

and yet Ramsey, like a rolling penny, keeps ending up on the field as the other qbs fail to impress.

after 3 ints in less then 2 quarters you might see mr Tim getting ready

you know Gibbs will have a short leash on Ramsey if he starts, curious if Ramsey just wants out of DC after this offseason

[jbooma]

Originally posted by bulldog

as a sideline, didn't you get a chuckle out of Parcells and that short-snapped punt to Dexter Coakley?

Parcells is all tough talk and old school on the surface, but in games he is at times a real gambler.

it is obvious though Dallas has no running game and Parcells is just airing Vinny out

[bulldog]

the embarrassing thing would be for Parcells to ride the geriatric crew of Vinny, Eddie George and Meshawn to a better record than the Redskins in 2004 given their relative LACK of investment in these players and our GREAT investment in ours.

[Destino]

People keep ranting about Ramsey's mistakes. These same people seem to forget that Brunell has had his share of turnovers and perhaps more importantly anyone that's been paying attention knows Brunell has been incredibly lucky. He's thrown more then his share of lame ducks that have bounced out of DB hands.

The bottom line is Brunell has looked nothing short of horrible when trying to go downfield. Worse still he seemed to give up on the long ball in the Giants game and ignored his deep receivers that weren't standing still and looking at him. That allowed the Giants D to pile up on the line.

I've also noticed almost every pass he throws is caught by a receiver that isn't moving. When he throws accross the middle the slashing receiver stops to make the catch. Same thing on the side lines. That's inaccuracy folks, you have to hit them in stride to make a play and I don't see that happening at all.

Perhaps he makes less mistakes, I don't think this is the case I think he's been more lucky then good, but I don't see him giving us much of a chance to win. If this injury slows him down, he'll have no feet and no arm against a fast aggressive cowboy defense.

[chiefhogskin48]

Originally posted by bulldog

the embarrassing thing would be for Parcells to ride the geriatric crew of Vinny, Eddie George and Meshawn to a better record than the Redskins in 2004 given their relative LACK of investment in these players and our GREAT investment in ours.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what has happened for the past 4 years.

Teams with lesser "paper" talent end up with better records. I do think our defense is overperforming right now given our dearth of "paper" defensive line talent. I'm not sure how far we'll get with smoke and mirrors, however.

The offense is somewhat of a mystery. I think what has been overlooked is the poor runblocking of our offensive lines. We rarely create any holes. Dockery looks clumsy and mediocre, Randy Thomas has bee downright invisible, and Samuels has not runblocked as well as his pedigree would indicate. Friedman is what he is: a journeyman who would be a backup on many teams. This group, as it is now, seems better suited to passblock than runblock, which is surprising.

Portis is not the "Davis" type back who can create his own yards. All he needs is a seam, and so far the offensive line has not been moving well enough to provide them.

[codeorama]

Originally posted by bulldog

what's ironic is that since Ramsey arrived, everyone has tried to replace him with somebody else in the lineup, Spurrier with the ex-Gators and Gibbs with Brunell.

Ramsey was a hold out rookie. How did Spurrier try to replace him?

Ramsey was named the out and out starting QB at the end of the season.

If anything, Spurrier tried to get Ramsey up to speed as fast as possible and have him ready to play.

[bulldog]

I disagree on that last point, Code. Spurrier was all too ready to trade Ramsey because he figured on going to battle with Matthews and Wuerffel in 2002. In fact after the team traded for Wuerffel Spurrier indicated he got one of the players he needed to be successful in 2002. I think the pick of Ramsey was a Snyder move after attempts to trade up for Donte Stallworth and Albert Haynesworth failed to bear fruit.

Given the fact he had his Gators, I think Spurrier would have probably been happier drafting someone else.

I think you will see Portis' productivity decline if teams see on film that the qb position on the Redskins carries with it no threat of the forward pass

Portis ran well in week 1 in part because there were no films on the tendencies of this team.

now there are. coordinators are starting to see that Brunell is belabored in this system, either because of rust, diminishing skills or scheme.

and they are taking advantage by stacking the line and refusing to let Portis beat them.

given this strategy on a team with strong runners, even average qbs in the past such as Trent Dilfer have been able to make just enough big plays to keep people honest.

we have not yet shown the ability to do that.

what Coughlin seemed to say yesterday in the way the Giants defensed Brunell is that Mark can no longer be a playmaker in this league and that Portis is the only Redskin on offense that can hurt us.

[codeorama]

Originally posted by bulldog

I disagree on that last point, Code. Spurrier was all too ready to trade Ramsey because he figured on going to battle with Matthews and Wuerffel in 2002. In fact after the team traded for Wuerffel Spurrier indicated he got one of the players he needed to be successful in 2002. I think the pick of Ramsey was a Snyder move after attempts to trade up for Donte Stallworth and Albert Haynesworth failed to bear fruit.

Given the fact he had his Gators, I think Spurrier would have probably been happier drafting someone else.

Ok, I didn't realize that you were going back to the draft, I thought you were just talking about the season itself. Once the season started, Spurrier didn't seem to care who the qb was, he just wanted production.

But you can compare Spurrier's mindset to Gibbs.

Spurrier thought Wuerffel could be successful despide his sqiurt gun arm, which is what Gibbs is clearly thinking with Brunell.

For me, the bottom line is that Ramsey COULD clearly be the starter, but he has repeatedly failed to show up.

[jkam]

Bulldog you are 100% right in this thread. Sonny and Sam were saying on the radio yesterday that the Giants were stacking 8 men in the box to stop Portis, and that it wouldn't change unless the passing game got going. When Patrick came in everything began to open up. Ramsey reminds me a lot of Mark Rypien in 88-89. Big arm, plenty of stupis throws. But Gibbs worked with him and he became an MVP in 91. We're going to have to bear with him this year if we want to have any offensive success. I always liked Brunell, but there is no question that he simply cannot go downfield with the ball. Remember what Parcells did with Hasselback last year. If Brunell starts next week it could be ugly.

[Dan T.]

A positive that I got out of Ramsey's play yesterday -- and it's a telling thing -- is that there was no sign of the problems that plagued him during preseason - tentativeness and lack of confidence.

He played with confidence yesterday bordering on ****iness. He stood strong in the pocket a made tough throws. And he moved the team.

So you can argue he's shed one problem and inherited another - not protecting the ball. But this too is solvable. Patrick is an extremely smart player. He'll learn that when throwing a corner route into the end zone, for Godssakes put it over your guy's shoulder so only he has a shot at it. He'll eat the ball on the roll out when you've only got one receiver out, he's doubled, and you've got two guys running at you.

Despite the disasterous performance, I saw a spark in the offense. As a starter, he won't have the underlying notion that it's do or die, which is how he probably perceived his role yesterday, and which cost him. If we have to go with Ramsey, I think he'll be okay, and so will the team.

[Whiskeypeet]

But you can compare Spurrier's mindset to Gibbs.Spurrier thought Wuerffel could be successful despide his sqiurt gun arm, which is what Gibbs is clearly thinking with Brunell.

You can compare all you want but in reality they are quite different.

SS implemented a pass first offense and expected Wuerffel to win games throwing the ball. Gibbs does not expect that from Brunell. JG will want to run the ball first and expect his QB to take what is given to him by the opposing defense.

I realize that overly simplistic but it really shines to the differences between Gibbs and Spurrier.

[Chachie]

Originally posted by Cskin

Here is the hammer striking the nail on the head. Had Ramsey just came in and moved the chains and taken care of the football, including taking what the defense gave him in terms of intermediate and deep routes, he would have shown Gibbs he's capable of moving the offense and playing within the system.

Instead, he tried to make plays out of nothing and threw two horrible interceptions via poor decision making.

For the record, I don't see what you guys see in Brunell. I see a guy not comfortable in the offense, but I see an experienced vet capable of moving the team. The deeper routes open up the more times Portis gains +5 yards a carry and starts gashing defenses. That occurs when Portis gets in sync with the blocking rhythms of the OL.

Patience guys... Patience.

Good post, but for me there's more to it. Moving the chains and taking care of the football, including taking what the defense gave him was what I expected Ramsey to be learning from a guy like Mark Brunell. So much time was spent in the preseason on the QB competition that the things Brunell SHOULD have been brought in for weren't happening.

I can't speak for the coaching staff (helloooo? obviously) but what I really wanted to see this year is a situation where Mark is here mainly FOR helping Patrick become the starting QB. The preseason showed that Ramsey wasn't (isn't) ready so I like Mark taking over for the early weeks. However, if we don't have a situation where Mark is used as the "model" or "example" by which Patrick learns, then Gibbs either has no future plans for Ramsey or he's not looking at 2 years down the road for his offense.