88Comrade2000 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- August 31, 2004 CONFRONTATIONS Protesters' Encounters With Delegates on the Town Turn Ugly By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD utside a hotel in Times Square, delegates to the Republican National Convention were swarmed by protesters dressed in black and swearing at them. Blocks away, delegates engaged in shoving matches with protesters seeking to spoil their night at the theater. And outside "The Lion King" on 42nd Street, a delegate was punched by a protester who ran by. Although the organized protests yesterday and Sunday have been largely peaceful, there has been a starkly different tone to smaller incidents in Midtown and elsewhere: angry encounters and planned harassment of convention delegates as they go out on the town. Sometimes the delegates answer back in toe-to-toe, finger-pointing shouting matches. Other times the police, who are guarding delegate gatherings, have dispersed protesters, who move on to other locations to taunt other delegates. The harassment of delegates came as organized protests continued to draw thousands of people. The Still We Rise march by advocates for social issues was peaceful, and a Poor People's March, a column several blocks long, proceeded from the United Nations to the Madison Square Garden yesterday after the police decided to let it go ahead without a permit. When marchers approached the Garden, a police detective was knocked off his scooter. He was then repeatedly kicked and punched in the head by at least one male demonstrator, the police said. The detective, William Sample, was listed in serious condition at St. Vincent's Manhattan Hospital, where Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly both visited him, the police said. There was no immediate word of an arrest in the assault, but as of 9 p.m., the police said there had been 11 protest-related arrests. The heavy police presence at the Garden apparently inspired the coordinated plan by anarchists and other radicals to strike out at the delegates at their hotels, breakfasts, parties, and on the streets. The incidents are the result of months of planning by opposition groups, who report that they have obtained copies of plans and addresses for delegates' parties, caucuses and other gatherings outside the Garden. Their efforts are aided by a support network that uses cellphone text messaging. Text message was also used extensively in a bike protest on Friday night and during demonstrations in Times Square on Sunday. "CT delegation breakfast everyday @ Maison (7th ave & 53rd) from 7-8:30. Can we get some dissenters?" said one text message yesterday, apparently referring to the Connecticut delegation's plan to gather at a Midtown restaurant. "Maison has outdoor buffet. It would be direct contact with delegates." One Internet discussion list used by protesters posted an advisory about where some delegate buses would be idling in Midtown every morning. Another message included phone numbers and e-mail addresses for convention officials and advised that delegate hotels would be busiest in the morning and evening. The police are bracing for another round of unsanctioned demonstrations today, which protesters have designated a day of "nonviolent civil disobedience and direct action." Among the parties expected to be a target is the Tennessee delegation's gathering at Sotheby's. A group calling itself the Man in Black Bloc plans to protest it, saying it is angered that the convention intends to honor the late country singer Johnny Cash. Yesterday, Jamie Moran, who lives in Brooklyn and describes himself as an anarchist and helps direct the rncnotwelcome.org Web site, was roaming Times Square with a band of protesters shouting at delegates. "These people are in a bubble," he said. "This is absolutely better than standing outside the Garden and shouting to let them know they are not welcome here." As delegate buses arrived at the Garden yesterday afternoon, protesters who had gathered for a demonstration screamed obscenities and gestured rudely at them. When the police spotted Pete Coors, a Republican candidate for Senate from Colorado, walking near the group, they swiftly steered him away. Clearly, the protesters were not deterred by entreaties by former Mayor Edward I. Koch that New Yorkers be nice and an offer by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg to give peaceful protesters buttons and shopping discounts. Adam Chase, 23, who said he came from Michigan for the protests, said that while he believed demonstrators should not be violent, "I think it is quite unfair for the R.N.C. and the delegates to tell us we should not be telling them we think they are exploiting the fears of the people." Mindful that delegates are targets, police officers guard their hotels and ride aboard their chartered buses around town, and several receive police escorts to various events. "New York City is a fortress, and I love it," Joseph Kyrillos, the New Jersey state Republican chairman, said yesterday at a delegate breakfast. "We need to thank the New York police for all the protection." Leonardo Alcivar, a spokesman for the convention, said officials recommended that delegates not respond to heckling and taunts, which he said have been "few and far between." Still, he said, "Our delegates understand the old adage, do unto others as they do unto you." The tensest encounters between delegates and protesters so far occurred Sunday evening when large groups of demonstrators moved through the theater district while delegates were attending shows under arrangements prepared by convention planners. Several protesters were arrested for trying to block hotel and theater entrances, and face-to-face standoffs abounded. Outside "Bombay Dreams" demonstrators shouted at and videotaped people standing outside for intermission. At "Aida," a group of protesters unfurled a banner and hurled invective at delegates leaving the show. Some looked nervous, but a few shouted back, "You're sick, sick." Delegates lined up to see "Phantom of the Opera" ended up in a sing-song, tit-for-tat with protesters. One protester shouted, "The phantom dies at the end." Flora Rohrs, a delegate from Colorado, burst into song, "This is my country," with bits of "God Bless America" thrown in. She said, "What is going on here is we are still going to get George Bush re-elected." For some, there was no escape even at dinner. "A person came by and used an explicative and stuck his finger in our face," said Deb Etcheson, an alternate delegate from Iowa. "But I don't blame that on New Yorkers. I just love this city." Some delegates seemed perplexed, even hurt, not because they did not expect protesters to be here, but because they did not expect them to get personal. "They were using foul language, getting real ugly," said Kim Kirkwood, a delegate from Amarillo, Tex. Her husband, Jim, said he could not understand it. "I have friends who are Democrats in Texas, and we talk about things, agree to disagree." Reporting for this article was contributed by Anthony Ramirez, Marc Santora, Mary Spicuzza and Jennifer Steinhauer.<<< I wonder what the reaction would have been if republican right wingers did the same thing to democratic delegates during the Democratic convention. Think this shows which extreme is more crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OURYEAR#56 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Shoot Bush show which extreme is craziest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by OURYEAR#56 Shoot Bush show which extreme is craziest! You need more sleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I have no problem with protestors, but your freedom of speach ends at my person... You can not run by and punch someone... You can not point you finger in my face and shout the f bomb or Nazi or some other racial/obcene word... I'd turn and walk away 99% of the time... I'd warn anyone about the lil woman or the kids though.... they are not fair game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I have a great idea. Why don't some of these people get a freakin' job!! Maybe then they wouldn't have so much energy, and would stop running around and punching people, or wasting hours sitting outside of theaters so that they can get in shoving matches. Do they actually think this kind of crap helps their cause? I'm very much in the middle on this election, but j/o's like this push me to the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Some delegates seemed perplexed, even hurt, not because they did not expect protesters to be here, but because they did not expect them to get personal. "They were using foul language, getting real ugly," said Kim Kirkwood, a delegate from Amarillo, Tex. Her husband, Jim, said he could not understand it. "I have friends who are Democrats in Texas, and we talk about things, agree to disagree." I continue to be puzzled by this activity as well as the almost uncontrollable rage and hate some of these people have for the President. What has become of civil discourse when concerning the political direction of our land? It seems that we usually all agree on the goals of our country but then differ over how to achieve those goals. Why must these disagreements over "methods" rot into hateful name calling and even violence. Now I am not naive enough to think that there was some idyllic time when such discussions never got heated or out of control. But it just SEEMS like it is getting worse. Yes lets discuss the issues. Yes lets have protests. Yes lets fight hard to get our voice heard and our plan enacted. All healthy forms of participation in our government that will only serve to make the product better. But in the end, somone has to win and we then move on. But even still that doesn't mean the discussion has to stop. It does however need to be free of the self-consuming hate and rage that has no place in this arena. As was stated before, there just comes a time when we have to agree to disagree. On a purely partisan note, I think the actions of these dolts and thugs will only help the President as middle America will not want to be associated with that type of behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Just imagine, if it was the early 19th century after the shenanigans of the election Bush and Gore would have settled it with a duel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by Burgold Just imagine, if it was the early 19th century after the shenanigans of the election Bush and Gore would have settled it with a duel. Nice. But at least there was a definitive and clear cut ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Cry me a river. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashback Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 "Go **** yourself." --Dick Cheney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyster Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by Destino Cry me a river. Nice analysis. At least you didn't try to justify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I don't remember this in Boston, now I do hope Bush wins just to shut up this people once and for all :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by troyster Nice analysis. At least you didn't try to justify it. You want my analysis? Here you go: For some reason the great uniter George Dubya Bush pisses off more people then any president in US history. Can anyone name a US President that inspires more protests then Bush? Anyone? Honestly it's one thing to call yourself a uniter and be partisan, it's another to claim it and be so polarizing that a quarter of a million people protesting you becomes common place. Are the protesters jerks? Of course. They all are. I make habit of going to every march I can in DC, and yeah that includes the pro-life ones. I do it to see it, because I may not always live here and get another chance. Trust me when I say protesters once formed up into a mob, are never NEVER nice to people that represent the opposing view point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by Destino You want my analysis? Here you go: For some reason the great uniter George Dubya Bush pisses off more people then any president in US history. Can anyone name a US President that inspires more protests then Bush? Anyone? Honestly it's one thing to call yourself a uniter and be partisan, it's another to claim it and be so polarizing that a quarter of a million people protesting you becomes common place. Are the protesters jerks? Of course. They all are. I make habit of going to every march I can in DC, and yeah that includes the pro-life ones. I do it to see it, because I may not always live here and get another chance. Trust me when I say protesters once formed up into a mob, are never NEVER nice to people that represent the opposing view point. these are the same fools who protest the world bank and INC (what ever it is) we should take away their vote for their foolish actions, the republicans acted with class in Boston compared to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by jbooma these are the same fools who protest the world bank and INC (what ever it is) we should take away their vote for their foolish actions, the republicans acted with class in Boston compared to this How do we know these are the same people? I've been to both protests in DC and I didn't think the crowds were the same. The INC protests had a very different feel to it then the anti-war protests did. The INC people are angry, lots of anarchists, lots of people that I wouldn't classify as leftists. The anti-war marches were filled to the brim with socialists and communists. Some dude even set up speakers blaring comunist trash instructing people to over throw the government. Had this guy been at the world bank protests the crowd would have turned on him, those folks were frightening. BTW - When I went to ask the communist dude why he's such a damn idiot he tried to sell me some pot, case closed. Also the protestors at the DNC convention were mostly anarchists and radical leftists from what I heard. Having said all that, it's still impressive that Bush has managed to motivate so many so often to come out and protest. That's not a easy thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by Destino You want my analysis? Here you go: For some reason the great uniter George Dubya Bush pisses off more people then any president in US history. Can anyone name a US President that inspires more protests then Bush? Anyone? Honestly it's one thing to call yourself a uniter and be partisan, it's another to claim it and be so polarizing that a quarter of a million people protesting you becomes common place. Are the protesters jerks? Of course. They all are. I make habit of going to every march I can in DC, and yeah that includes the pro-life ones. I do it to see it, because I may not always live here and get another chance. Trust me when I say protesters once formed up into a mob, are never NEVER nice to people that represent the opposing view point. Well, that's not really a fair assesment. Number one, hardcore liberals tend to enjoy a good protest/riot. Number 2, Bill Clinton enraged many people (aside from those on the left), and I have many friends that are conservative that hated the very mention of his name. The simple fact is, moderates and right wingers (aside from the pro-lifers) tend not to protest as robustly as left wingers. I think the DNC vs RNC proves my point. Either way, it makes for interesting news;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by herrmag Well, that's not really a fair assesment. Number one, hardcore liberals tend to enjoy a good protest/riot. Number 2, Bill Clinton enraged many people (aside from those on the left), and I have many friends that are conservative that hated the very mention of his name. The simple fact is, moderates and right wingers (aside from the pro-lifers) tend not to protest as robustly as left wingers. I think the DNC vs RNC proves my point. Either way, it makes for interesting news;) I disagree. You trigger enough outrage and anyone will show up with signs. For example, had Bill Clinton raised taxes high enough there would have been millions of people milling around the mall declaring their hatred. Had he declared abortion not only legal but a great way to show you love america (or something along those lines) there would have been crowds as far as the eye could see. Outrage is motivational. Bush is triggering outrage in these whackos and he's doing it consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by Destino Outrage is motivational. Bush is triggering outrage in these whackos and he's doing it consistently. nothing wrong with a president to stir the pot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdru Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by Rdskns2000 And outside "The Lion King" on 42nd Street, a delegate was punched by a protester who ran by. I got a nice clean blow in on him too. That prick. Although I wasn't protesting. I was trying to get into the show. He was scalping tickets and tried to rip me off--the b*stard. I ended up just going to the Phantom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdru Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by jbooma nothing wrong with a president to stir the pot or smoke it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Protesters drive me crazy, yeah they should have the right to do it, but do they ever accomlish anything? They want to be heard more than they want there ideas heard, they know want they don't want, not what they want. They are crazy loons who will use violence to protest violence. Those moes are CRAZY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by docdru or smoke it! i think we are getting to an age where anyone running for president would have smoked it, and no not just exhaled it :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by panel Protesters drive me crazy, yeah they should have the right to do it, but do they ever accomlish anything? They want to be heard more than they want there ideas heard, they know want they don't want, not what they want. They are crazy loons who will use violence to protest violence. Those moes are CRAZY. lets drop all the crazy protesters in Iraq and see if they feel loved there :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Originally posted by Destino I disagree. You trigger enough outrage and anyone will show up with signs. I don't know about that, some people, like a lot of the guys who are out there now, enjoy protest, like it is a way to define themselves. Some people find other ways, if you make an old person made, they will right you a letter, I wouldn't want to be in a protest, if I were real made about someing, I'd send an E-mail. Some people are the protesting type, and some aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Protesting is a piece of fiber in the thread of this country... all have the right. The point that it becomes personal and abusive... in this case.... than it's unacceptable. Shouting obsentities inside a person's personal space and physically abusing delegates is disgusting. I think the fervor and hatred of Bush is due to a) the 2000 election results that outraged the left and 8 years of bleeding heart liberalism brought to us by Clinton. When we begin to stand up and not cowtoe to international opinion and defend our soveriegnty... the Left goes beserk. Let's hope the defending of America continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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