Kilmer17 Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 WHERE ARE THE PASSENGERS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Originally posted by manleyistheman The thing I don't understand the hostility towards Bacculus that some of you have. Why such anger towards someone that is simply willing to question? Whether he's right or wrong, there is no need for the name calling. I'm not saying his theories are correct, but show some respect for another's point of view. It's so sad. there is hostility because he refuses to admit to some of our personal experience, to some this is not a subject we should even talk about it, sorry but my friends who worked on the cleanup would know more then this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section 130 Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 I haven't debunked anything.. The only question I ask is where are the passengers? If you truly believe that it was something other than a plane that hit the Pentagon, then you must have some kind of idea where the passengers are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Originally posted by Kilmer17 WHERE ARE THE PASSENGERS? Incinerated. Just like the rest of the plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNut73 Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Originally posted by Kilmer17 WHERE ARE THE PASSENGERS? It's just too convienient to skip over that part...isn't it Kilmer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 Henry, why is the burden off "proof" on the so-called "conspiracists"? How come this burden of poor was never actually produced by the government to debunk any of my questions to happen in the first place? I produced a link that showed a typical aircraft crash, and the resulting investigation. I have yet to see any documents, or photos, of such an investigation, into this incident. Why, again, is the burden of proof on me, a private citizen? So, the simple answer is that the fire burned the entire plane. That really does not seem credible. I do not profess to be an expert in this are, but it just does not seem very logical, when I see the images from the initial impact. Also, there's mention of hundreds of witnesses. There are also witness that stated they saw two planes, as well as the plane being closer to the size of a Cessna. And, there are also folks here, one of which is familiar with a 757, that said they saw a plane of that nature heading towards the Pentagon. I am not calling anyone a liar - people saw what they saw. I am just questioning the end result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Originally posted by SkinsHokie Fan Yes it did. My brother witnessed it LOL. This is the funniest thing ive read in my life. Some people have too much time on their hands. Almost makes me think that these people are losers or just hate Bush so much that they will do anything to get him out of the office. By the way im not a bush FAN. Not only did your brother witnessed it but so many others did as well. Do you people know the pentagon area well? How many of you actually live or around DC area? If u do , you will know what im talking about. I live in DC area and i drive by the pentagon everyday to work. Do you know that INterstate 395 is right next to the pentagon? Do you know how congested 395 gets? Do you know how many people drive to DC every morning to work? When its not bumper to bumper, the traffic is still during morning times bad. With all these people driving to work u think not one single person saw the plane hit the pentagon? Ive met people at work taht said they have witnessed it. I mean u actually think the GOV would say the plane hit the pentagon and lie about it when infact so many people commute in and out of DC. U have workers, tourist in and out of DC every day. I mean please use your head before you try to come up with the most absurd accusation ever made. I still cant stop laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Bacalus, I think you are taking this a little too far my friend. The argument that the originator (French chick - forget her name) supposed was based primary on a few photographs. Thats all - she looked at them as thought - hmmmm - something looks odd or I think I will say that the US has made all of this up - those evil Americans... When there are hundreds of people with 1st hand accounts of the Pentagon crash - and other photographs that go against her supposition....then I think I will go with the 1st hand accounts. What specifically would convince you that the US isn't covering this up? Because we have already has people speak about their friends 1st hand accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 JBooma, you can call me what you want, fellow citizen. And where did I DISMISS anyone's experience? Did I dismiss any of the folks who worked on the Pentagon site after the attack? No. It's ironic that you are talking about me "dismissing" your experiences, which I have yet to do, and yet, you are readily dismissing anything I have proposed. I guess the irony is going right over your head. Nice going with the name calling again. Thank you. So, what, want to meet on the playground during recess? BTW, I have no idea about the passengers or their whereabouts. After all, if anyone noticed, I questioned if flight 77 actually hit the Pentagon and caused the resulting horrific event. I never came to any absolute conclusions. I saw information and formulated questions that others have as well. My objective wasn't to dismiss anyone's eyewitness accounts (though I am not given this same regard), but I do have questions surrounding the scene of the crime. BTW, this page has some information on the http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/flight77/passengers.html Take it as you will. But I bet I have read more about these passengers, and who they were, actually seeing their faces, then some of those who are insulting me and telling me to basically be silent. If I didn't care, I probably wouldn't have questioned in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section 130 Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Bacalus, This question is for you and you alone. Do you honestly believe that something other than a plane hit the Pentagon? If you do, what DO YOU THINK HAPPENED TO THE PASSENGERS? Why do you keep avoiding this question? Question answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 This is almost as bad as the missle pod theory :doh: Speaking of that....if the pentagon was set up, then that means the WTC and the Penn. crash was also a farce. But why would the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania do that? If the government was in control why would it skip over all those major targets to crash in the middle of nowhere. Where are the passengers that crashed into the WTC. Did they transfer midair into another plane? Sorry to break this to you but the plane (as seen by witnesses - including some close friends on mine) went in at an angle. Not head on. Here's a couple of good explanations (though the best come from eyewitness accounts): Snopes: http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/pentagon.htm TruthorFiction: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/p/pentagoncrash.htm Rense (includes pics and other links): http://rense.com/general32/phot.htm Here's airtrafic, etc.: http://radioscanning.wox.org/Scanner/Sounds/sounds.htm If you can't find any proof that the plane did in fact hit...then you're just not looking hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 This thread should just be locked people have gotten way out of control here. Seriosuly it's one thing to get heated it's another to lose control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Originally posted by Baculus JBooma, you can call me what you want, fellow citizen. And where did I DISMISS anyone's experience? Did I dismiss any of the folks who worked on the Pentagon site after the attack? No. It's ironic that you are talking about me "dismissing" your experiences, which I have yet to do, and yet, you are readily dismissing anything I have proposed. I guess the irony is going right over your head. hmm let me see you have pictures and someone speaking, my friend was there cleaning it up after it hit, let me see whos story woud you believe by the way the other poster is right the plane i think hit between 9 and 10:30 right?? the road by the pentagon would be jammed with traffic, so of course you are going to have witnesses the fact you mentioned you don't know about fire then right there you should be quiet, you noticed that the plane that landed in pa didn't burn as much because it hit a field, this plane hit the pentagon which continued to burn for hours, the jet fuel alone plus the pentagon and all the offices it destroyed created a fire that lasted i believe a day or so, in this process all the metal would be completely destroyed from the fire sorry if i yelled at you but people i know died in it, what do you expect me to invite you over for coffee :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 The Evil Genius, really, what I listed was possibly the same photographs she examined, though I am not familiar with this French women. I do not readily accept all conspiracy theories, though some may seem valid upon further investigation. BTW, even after the WTT collapse, they did find pieces of the aircrafts involved. Obviously this board is the wrong place to ask questions or present anything out of the normal mainstream, for, per the norm, these ideas are ridiculed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 WASHINGTON (AP) -- Searchers on Friday found the flight data and ****pit voice recorders from the hijacked plane that flew into the Pentagon and exploded, Department of Defense officials said. The two ``black boxes,'' crucial to uncovering details about the doomed flight's last moments, were recovered at about 4 a.m., said Army Lt. Col. George Rhynedance, a Pentagon spokesman. Rhynedance said the recorders were in the possession of the FBI, and that officials from the National Transportation Safety Board were providing technical assistance in reading any data they contain. Dick Bridges, deputy manager for Arlington County, Va., said the voice recorder was damaged on the outside and the flight data recorder was charred. But he said the FBI still was confident the data can be recovered from both. Bridges said the recorders were found ``right where the plane came into the building.'' Earlier, a fire that flared in the debris had set back search efforts following the crash of American Airlines Flight 77. Government authorities said 190 people -- a combination of military and civilian employees on the ground and the passengers in the plane -- were believed to have died. Rescuers worked to stabilize unsteady parts of the still-shaking building, said Jerry Crawford, leader of a Memphis, Tenn., search team. The instability prevented Pentagon intelligence workers from trying to gather classified papers and other information strewn throughout the rubble. ``We have the FBI with us and nobody is touching anything they're not supposed to touch,'' Crawford said. He said that when rescue workers ``see something marked secret or sensitive, we leave it alone.'' A flare-up late Thursday sent black smoke billowing hundreds of feet into the air over Washington, but firefighters put out the blaze within 20 minutes. Human remains pulled from the Pentagon were being taken to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware to be identified. The first two helicopters carrying remains arrived at the base Thursday afternoon. During a Pentagon service Friday morning, men and women wiped tears from their cheeks as they sang ``God Bless America.'' A women in her camouflaged field uniform sang hymns and another played the piano. A civilian worker wore a tie that looked like the American flag, while another simply pinned a flag to her blouse. Army Maj. Gen. Robert Van Antwerp Jr. sat with a Bible on his lap until it was his turn to speak. ``My heart pains for you and I pray that God will comfort you,'' Van Antwerp, assistant chief of staff for installation management, told an auditorium packed with some 250 people in the first of three services planned Friday. Van Antwerp said his secretary and administrative assistant were killed in the attack. ``I am experiencing some of the same emotions that many of you are,'' he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASMTrainer Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Is this the same Baculus from the ESPN Redskin boards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Bac, Don't go away with your feelings hurt...its just that 1) we have already discussed this and 2) the conspiracy theory in this case is sickening to many (and just not really a conspiracy). The arguments that are made in it do not pass muster in my book. Nor do I see any potential benefit from faking a crash into the Pentagon. Why waste hundreds of million of dollars? For what cause? To cover up a rogue missile or something? Not plausible...and I am usually a sceptic (since I work for the government)...lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 Skins24, that was an interesting link, which comes from http://rense.com. Ironically enough, I saw some articles on from this page that stated the exact opposite of what was in the article you included. BTW, did you actually look at the front page of http://rense.com? If you think *I* am a conspiracy crazed person, you should look at that site a bit deeper. Some of the theories offered on that site was a bit much for me. That link did offer more of a credible response. THAT is more of what I wanted to see, since it has different images and more eyewitnesses accounts. (BTW, again, this is so far, inspite of its source, the only site I have seen that shows anything that resembles a crashed 757.) Again, I am not looking for material that supports MY viewpoint - I want to see what's out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 Skin-N-NY, yeah, this is the same Baculus from the ESPN Skins board. :-) It has been ages since I have been there, but I still remember a lot of folks from that board, so I should stop by and say hello. :-) I left that board due to, at that time, the number of 'Skins haters that frequented the board. (I was tired of too many battles with them!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Originally posted by Baculus The Evil Genius, really, what I listed was possibly the same photographs she examined, though I am not familiar with this French women. I do not readily accept all conspiracy theories, though some may seem valid upon further investigation. BTW, even after the WTT collapse, they did find pieces of the aircrafts involved. Obviously this board is the wrong place to ask questions or present anything out of the normal mainstream, for, per the norm, these ideas are ridiculed. Dude, do yourself a favor and just go away. You need to read everybody's post. Skins24 provided u with pieces of the aircraft in the pentagon. U stress that there arent any pieces on the ground but why would there be when a plane flies 200-300 mph in an angle staight trhough the building? the pieces would follow through and would be all in the building. i dont think pentagon had some sort of air machine that would blow everything back out on to the field where u pointed out with an arrow saying "golfers..." LOL still funny though. Youve made my day though. I laughed so hard reading your posts. Too damn funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 People saw it sheering off Light poles as it came in. My mother - in - law felt it in the house and was scared to death... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkatz Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 Jbooma and Kilmer, I have tried not to post anything while listening to this debate get more and more heated but I just cant stop myself from saying something. I completely disagree with Baculus's radical conspiracy theory and I am also very sensative about the 9/11 issue. But the way you both lashed out at Baculus is childish and im simply at a loss. Booma, your snotty remarks got worse and worse - that is mind boggling to me. He has presented what he believes to be evidence in a kind and non-malicious way. He is only trying to shed some light on what he believes to be a valid story. I think its just as outlandish as you but why attack him personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Actaeon Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 I was in the parking lot that day and I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted August 19, 2004 Author Share Posted August 19, 2004 Dude, do yourself a favor and just go away. Unless I piss so many folks off and get banned for troll-like behaviour...then no, I won't. If you don't agree with me, ignore this and dismiss me. As I have stated, I never offered any absolute conclusions. BTW, did you see the initial photographs with the smaller hole in the Pentagon? While I never said it was IMPOSSIBLE that the entire plane was destroyed mostly on impact and couldn't have produced this smaller, initial hole, then it *is* strange. But I never offered that this was an improbable affect of a plane impact. It just didn't...seem quite right. BTW, I have watched impact footage of planes stricking concrete walls (these were USAF tests) and damage DID fly backwards - have you seen this same footage? Also, the question was how the entire plane would have disappeared into that initial smaller hole. It has been demonstrated that aircraft aluminum can vaporized in extreme heat, but it just seemed surprising. I am glad my post made your day - you must have been having a slow one if that was the most exciting thing so far you've seen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 excuse me? I think you need to chill out and point specifically to where I went after anyone personally? But my guess is that little tirade of yours is going to earn you a timeout from the mods. Well deserved I might add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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