Ignatius J. Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 What Qualities of Libertarianism does Bush Embody? I've seen on a number of threads that some people think that a vote for bush is the only sensible act by a libertarian. I think this is ridiculous. He seems to me to be the exact opposite of libertarian on so many issues. I think people are geared up for the last war here, since the democrats have always been the espousers of Big G. in the past. So right now, how is a socially conservative fiscally liberal guy more like the socially liberal fiscally conservative guys than a fiscal and social liberal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Taxes is the only one I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Instead of asking GOPers to come in here and lie to you about how their politicians support a smaller government just look at the results. They don't support a smaller government. They don't suppose a less intrusive government. They don't support states rights over the federal government. If you are a libertarian then vote for a thrid party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thew Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I asked this question of myself a year ago. My answer was that Bush isn't conservative much less libertarian. That Bush is the very worst in what I aspouse of the Democratic Party, fiscal insanity of the 70's. Compound this with his costing America our moral standing in the world, our leadership position in the world, and undermining the two cornerstones of American foreign policy for the last 5 decades(NATO, UN). I won't/can't support him next term. Not only that I actually gave money to the democrates this year to defeat him. Never voted Dem before, But if Bush represents where the republican party has sunk too I may never vote Republican again. That was my answer.... When I pose the question to others, The usual defense of Bush, who is undefendable is...... "Kerry would/could be worse". Better the historically bad monster you know than the potentially bad monster you don't. Doesn't seem logical to me, but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Gun Control is almost identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Welfare, taxes, energy independance. I dont expect Bush to be exactly like the Libertarian party. If he was, that would eliminate the need for it. But he certainly is closer to their ideas than Kerry would be. Look at Prescr Drug plan as an example. The Libertarian Party totally opposed it. Bush gave too much, but Kerry (and the Dems) wanted even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLusby Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Originally posted by thew I won't/can't support him next term. Not only that I actually gave money to the democrates this year to defeat him. Never voted Dem before, But if Bush represents where the republican party has sunk too I may never vote Republican again. That was my answer.... Bush is a big spender as I am much more conservative than he; however, a vote for Kerry is essentially a vote for socialism and our country's sovereignty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Cool. That definately is true. I could see how getting Kerry into office would hurt the gun control issue. Anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Originally posted by Destino If you are a libertarian then vote for a thrid party. If you are a Libertarian, vote Libertarian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I've seen on a number of threads that some people think that a vote for bush is the only sensible act by a libertarian. I think this is ridiculous. Sadly, I have to agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Originally posted by TLusby A vote for Kerry is essentially a vote for socialism and our country's sovereignty. Conservatives are developing a serious case of Chicken Little syndrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Wouldnt a better question be: Of the two candidates, which is closer to Libertarian ideals on individual issues. Then list them. Can anyone cite a Libertarian position that Kerry is closer to supporting? Would abortion be one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkyalligator Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 As a libertarian there is no way I would vote for Bush(another republican perhaps) and certainly not for Kerry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Would abortion be one? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I don't think Bush is a libertarian in the slightest. I think he was right to be against federal government intervention into the issue of gay marriage, which was somewhat libertarian in positioning, but, I think he's now right to be for that very intervention after seeing how localities flaunted state law and a single judge has largely made law for the whole country. In the end though, I don't think Bush is at all libertarian. Unlike Reagan, Bush feels there is a place for government and he's expanded it accordingly. To a libertarian or conservative this is very bad for him to have done and I, among others, still can not bring myself to vote for him because he's out of touch with the beliefs of a conservative. That said, it would, obviously, be impossible to vote for Kerry if you are a libertarian or conservative. Kerry essentially espouses a foreign policy based on U.S. subjugation and as many liberals seem to forget, the U.S. has a majority of the U.N. security council with it on Iraq, but, the unilateral, uncompromising policies of France prevented a vote since the French would have vetoed it. Yet, Kerry seems to think we should let the U.N. dictate U.S. foreign policy. This is something few people could possibly vote for if they are honest and fortunately for Kerry, very few liberals are honest, so, he'll get their votes. The greatest positive Bush has is he understand the world changed on 9/11 and liberals, led by Kerry, don't seem to recognize the fundamental change and great challenge terrorism and fanaticism pose to the world. Even after 9/11 the left wasn't ready for a prolonged fight to rid the world of this danger and we'll be exposed again for stopping the fight if Bush loses. That is largely enough to make me consider changing back to vote for him. But, again, I hold conservative values of small government and lower spending more seriously than I do even national security. Others may not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Originally posted by Art I don't think Bush is a libertarian in the slightest. I think he was right to be against federal government intervention into the issue of gay marriage, which was somewhat libertarian in positioning, but, I think he's now right to be for that very intervention after seeing how localities flaunted state law and a single judge has largely made law for the whole country. In the end though, I don't think Bush is at all libertarian. Unlike Reagan, Bush feels there is a place for government and he's expanded it accordingly. To a libertarian or conservative this is very bad for him to have done and I, among others, still can not bring myself to vote for him because he's out of touch with the beliefs of a conservative. That said, it would, obviously, be impossible to vote for Kerry if you are a libertarian or conservative. Kerry essentially espouses a foreign policy based on U.S. subjugation and as many liberals seem to forget, the U.S. has a majority of the U.N. security council with it on Iraq, but, the unilateral, uncompromising policies of France prevented a vote since the French would have vetoed it. If one were to think that voting for the party that most espouses your ideals were the most constructive thing to do, you'd be right I believe. Perhaps, though, in our electoral system, a libertarian may vote for Kerry if the libertarian believes that a Republican Congress teamed with a little-liked Democratic President would lead to gridlock and less government spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I can't see a single characteristic of Libertarianism in Bush. He is far from conservatism as well... having paved the way for his Repub bretheren to spend like drunken sailors. The tax cut would be a point of contention if it wasn't followed by out of control spending. I'll vote Bush for no other reason than I want to kick the terrorists' teeth in over there instead of over here. Any questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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