3DaysLatr Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 The reason that I care about his cap number is because he sucks and takes up space that could be used to build quality depth along either line. One thing that I'm struggling with right now is this, if he's so stoudt against the run why can't he hold contain against misdirection plays, bootlegs or play-action? The answer is because he is not stoudt against the run, he is not competent in any facet of his play and if the Redskins are going to cut Trotter and Armstead then I would think that Wynn's inflated cap number would place a well deserved target in the middle of his overpaid chest and send him into Free Agency as well. For those that say we can't get a player of equal value off the FA market I say that's BS. Any player that can anchor and hold contain is a step up from Wynn at this point, for that matter Upshaw at least has the outside capability to push the pocket. Since Wynn doesn't shore up against the run anyway Upshaw is not a step down in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by 3DaysLatr The reason that I care about his cap number is because he sucks and takes up space that could be used to build quality depth along either line. One thing that I'm struggling with right now is this, if he's so stoudt against the run why can't he hold contain against misdirection plays, bootlegs or play-action? The answer is because he is not stoudt against the run, he is not competent in any facet of his play and if the Redskins are going to cut Trotter and Armstead then I would think that Wynn's inflated cap number would place a well deserved target in the middle of his overpaid chest and send him into Free Agency as well. For those that say we can't get a player of equal value off the FA market I say that's BS. Any player that can anchor and hold contain is a step up from Wynn at this point, for that matter Upshaw at least has the outside capability to push the pocket. Since Wynn doesn't shore up against the run anyway Upshaw is not a step down in my opinion. If we cut Wynn then not only do we lose another DE, but we lose depth in the d-line. Period. Show me a FA still avaliable that can do a better job then Wynn, and I might understand your arguement. If we are going to do anything thru d-line, it should be through trading, not waiting for a premire play to fall out of the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankRizzo Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Man, you guys are harsh! I personally think Wynn has done ok. The role he plays isn't flashy, I think he more than does his job though. I sure hope you guys bashing wynn aren't the same guys that praise Iffy over Bowen. Iffy has looked awful out there at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skin_finatic Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I HATE WYNN..... He sucks very very very bad. He is absolutley horrible on the pass rush and run. And I dont want to hear he is good at the run because he isn't. He is extremely horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 How many really good d-lineman has Gibbs ever needed to have good defenses? I can think of Manley, Butz and Mann as very good lineman but they're all that comes to mind. If Wynn has any talent we'll see it this year under the new regime. I think a lot of our defensive players underachieved because of how poor the whole team played. The new system will excite them and motivate them more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by Art Wynn is the only lineman we've had the last two years who can be said to do his job. Bruce Smith did his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by panel Bruce Smith did his job. Bruce begged Snyder for playing time and was the only DE we had that could give anything close to a reasonable pass rush. Bruce is a jerk and is unemployed. They came to play, so ya, I guess you could say they did their job. Jeff George did his job, by the way. So did Micheal Westbrook. If Wynn can help this team, then he's staying. Smith, George, and Westbrook didn't help this team. Hence they are all gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLSKINSFAN Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by panel Bruce Smith did his job. When Bruce wasn't getting buried, he would limp straight up the field in search of a sack (which he rarely found). In turn the offense wound run a draw or delay right at him and he would miss the ball carrier completely. Wynn at least tried to play the pass and the run. You can't say the same for Bruce Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diego1115 Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by 3DaysLatr I've been thinking about this and the way I see it is like this. Renaldo Wynn is terrible, he is not worth anything near what we are paying him yet still he comes out smelling like a rose. He doesn't shore up the line against the run, he doesn't create a rush from the edge nor does he slide inside in nickle or dime sets to become an interior pass rushing tackle. He doesn't do anything but occupy cap space. I liken this to the Bengal's Head Coaches for years. Remember when Shula and Coslett just kept getting to lead their teams to 6-10 or worse records. It went on forever. Why is Wynn still on this roster, other teams see that a guy was a bust as a signing and release him. What does Wynn have on the management, is this like some kind of weird conspiracy thing? We gave him like a 3.5 million doillar signing bonus two years ago, so since his cap number for the season is more than 3.5 million we save against the cap with his release. Why is he still taking up space on our roster? Trotter's getting the axe and he's been no worse than Wynn. Armstead got released and he's been arguably our best defensive performer over the past two seasons. I'm perplexed by the Wynn situation. Please enlighten me, but please, please refrain from the "we don't get better by releasing him" company line. He doesn't offer anything that an OFA wouldn't so I don't see atriting him as a problem as far as what he contributes to the team. WOW...im glad someone agrees with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DaysLatr Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by Renegade7 If we cut Wynn then not only do we lose another DE, but we lose depth in the d-line. Period. Show me a FA still avaliable that can do a better job then Wynn, and I might understand your arguement. If we are going to do anything thru d-line, it should be through trading, not waiting for a premire play to fall out of the sky. I'll take Ahanatu, Brackens, Bratzke or Holmes of those currently out there and they'll likely count less against our cap than Wynn does right now. These are those that are out there right now, more will be available come June 1st and two very likely candidates are Joe Johnson and Hugh Douglas, either of which I would gladly take for even up money with that of Wynn. Though they will probably sign for less than Wynn's salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by 3DaysLatr I'll take Ahanatu, Brackens, Bratzke or Holmes of those currently out there and they'll likely count less against our cap than Wynn does right now. These are those that are out there right now, more will be available come June 1st and two very likely candidates are Joe Johnson and Hugh Douglas, either of which I would gladly take for even up money with that of Wynn. Though they will probably sign for less than Wynn's salary. Ahanatu- 4 sacks and is in his 13th season Brackens- 6 sacks in 15 games 8 year player Season ending knee injury in 2002 and had a left knee microfracture last year. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/3533/injuries.html Brackens reason for being cut also had to do with his large hit on the cap Bratzke- 3 sacks and is his 12th season Holmes- I can understand that. I should've said everyone except him because I want to sign him too. But... http://www.kffl.com/popuphotw.php?id=160610 Redskins | Holmes Not Offered - from www.KFFL.com Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:12:39 -0800 The Washington Post reports the Washington Redskins did not make an offer to free agent DE Kenny Holmes (Giants), according to sources familiar with the situation. Holmes took a physical on Wednesday, March 17. The first 4, besides maybe Holmes because he had 5.5 sacks in 9 games last year(which could've been a 10 sack season), would be less expensive then Wynn. That I'll admit. But they're old enough to go to the raiders for cryin out loud. Not impressed, and I'm not going to expect much being left in the tank for those three. Johnson- 6 games and 0 sacks last year. 5 games and 0 sacks the year before. Both due to injury, and he's going into his 11th year pro. Being cut for salary cap reasons as well... http://www.kffl.com/article.php/2752 Douglas- Nice idea, but he won't be making less then Wynn. And unless he shows up like he did while in philly, we'll still be better off with Wynn. By the way, he's going into his 11th year pro, and had 3.5 sacks last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple6mafia Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 he's not that bad and he'd be even better if he renegotiated his contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DaysLatr Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by Renegade7 Ahanatu- 4 sacks and is in his 13th season Brackens- 6 sacks in 15 games 8 year player Season ending knee injury in 2002 and had a left knee microfracture last year. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/3533/injuries.html Brackens reason for being cut also had to do with his large hit on the cap Bratzke- 3 sacks and is his 12th season Holmes- I can understand that. I should've said everyone except him because I want to sign him too. But... http://www.kffl.com/popuphotw.php?id=160610 Redskins | Holmes Not Offered - from www.KFFL.com Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:12:39 -0800 The Washington Post reports the Washington Redskins did not make an offer to free agent DE Kenny Holmes (Giants), according to sources familiar with the situation. Holmes took a physical on Wednesday, March 17. The first 4, besides maybe Holmes because he had 5.5 sacks in 9 games last year(which could've been a 10 sack season), would be less expensive then Wynn. That I'll admit. But they're old enough to go to the raiders for cryin out loud. Not impressed, and I'm not going to expect much being left in the tank for those three. Johnson- 6 games and 0 sacks last year. 5 games and 0 sacks the year before. Both due to injury, and he's going into his 11th year pro. Being cut for salary cap reasons as well... http://www.kffl.com/article.php/2752 Douglas- Nice idea, but he won't be making less then Wynn. And unless he shows up like he did while in philly, we'll still be better off with Wynn. By the way, he's going into his 11th year pro, and had 3.5 sacks last year. The deal is this, I think Wynn sucks completely and you don't. That's cool, a difference of opinion and all, but what I'm saying is this...... Stats don't say much to me since it's not like Wynn is throwing them up either and regardless of age Wynn isn't a cornerstone for our future. Wynn is taking away from the Skins ability to get quality depth at other positions because his cap # is ludicrous for what he gives the team. I have no problem with Ahanatu, Brackens, Holmes, Bratzke, Johnson, or Douglas because regardless of age or prior year stats any of them can fail to rush the passer and fail to keep contain against the run while biting on play-Action and misdirections and aside from Douglas will fail at all of this for much less than Wynn is getting. I do think that Douglas can be had for what Wynn is making though, only my opinion but that's how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Originally posted by panel Bruce Smith did his job. I assume you're kidding. Bruce was benched because he continually made an end run to the QB in an effort to get and then pad the record for sacks. There's a reason he came off the bench the last eight games or so. He was a tremendous liability against the run and would rarely be reliable in the position the defense dictated given his objectives were different than our own. Two years ago he was a little more honest. Not last year though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvan Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Wynn has the skills and talent to be better. That's why I believe with our new and much improved coaching staff he and many others will play up to there abilities and then some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citigent Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 it is not fair to judge wynn on how many sacks he has, that is not his cup of tea. he isa run stopper. which while most of you want the pretty sacks he is the best run stopper our line has. its time to stop the hating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSchwartz Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 Maybe he is still on the roster because there are a group of professional NFL talent evaulators who obviously think that he helps our team. With the way guys have been filtered our already this year, I would have to figure that Gibbs believes Wynn is a competent starter at DE or DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 wynn was overrated when we signed him to the big deal. he only performs well when he is surrounded by pro bowl dlinemen. look at jax for example, he had henderson, stroud, and brackens alongside him on the DL. that is the main reason he performed well in his contract year. he proved he cant carry the load without good players at the other DL spots. i expect more than 2 sacks from a guy who we are paying 3.5 mil a season. i would rather use that 3.5 mil to pay a pass rusher like brackens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rook Posted May 1, 2004 Share Posted May 1, 2004 Wynn is a player that takes plays "off". When you have a different D Coordinator every year. some guys can get away with this. I think Gibbs will go to Williams if the effort isn't there. As for the cap hit - that is beyond our control. The FO will deal as they see fit (for better or worse - WE would not have signed Deion or let Davis go - but they don't ask us). To speculate about cap numbers is like getting p@ssed about the weather - Fun to do, everyone agrees, but to no avail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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