ramsey may not start

[gridironmike]

Originally posted by scottb

Good point Art about Spurrier. In our haste to dismiss and defile him, lost is the fact that Spurrier significantly helped Ramsey develop into an NFL QB.

:applause: Good point. If he did nothing else while he was here, he put Ramsey on the fast track to development.

[atloldskin]

It is Patrick's job to lose.

[atloldskin]

It is Patrick's job to lose.

[xanathos19]

This is the most ridiculous post I have ever read...of course Ramsey is going to start. He's had two years under his belt to watch, and to most importantly, get on-the-field action. If he could be succesful in Spurrier's shady protection scheme, then you know he's gonna be fine with GIbbs.

The guy has the tools and the drive and toughness to be a great QB...he's got to start!!!

[NavyDave]

with more pressing needs we arent bringin in a QB who can unseat ramsey.

For one thing warner is restructuring his contract to stay in st louie with bulger.

Brunell is more than likely going to dallas.

We need help on defense

we need help on defense

And I'd pursue that viking TE before thinking about making a splash at QB.

This is the 2st century and 3rd yr QBs drafted in the first round dont sit they learn on the fly.

And sitting ramsey would be extremely stupid he'd be like trent green coached up and starring on another team

[@DCGoldPants]

Yeah, I can't see Patrick not starting if he's healthy. Hell, he'll have 1/4 of the audibles to deal with, a running game to lean on.

Gibbs is going to lOVE his arm and his leadership.

[ktball74]

Patrick also has the intangibles called "Respect!" He doesn't call Gibbs by his name, he just calls him "coach." Now that is a quality Gibbs will love being from the south. What is there not to love about Ramsey? Ramsey is probably a big reason Gibbs came back to coach.

[RedskinsNation]

If Gibbs can make Joe Theismann an MVP - how good can PRam do? Joe T. said that himself. Ramsey will absolutely start and word is out that we may not bring Hasselback back next year along w/Gibran Hamdan.

[Heavy Jumbo]

Originally posted by NavyDave

with more pressing needs we arent bringin in a QB who can unseat ramsey.

For one thing warner is restructuring his contract to stay in st louie with bulger.

Brunell is more than likely going to dallas.

We need help on defense

we need help on defense

And I'd pursue that viking TE before thinking about making a splash at QB.

This is the 2st century and 3rd yr QBs drafted in the first round dont sit they learn on the fly.

And sitting ramsey would be extremely stupid he'd be like trent green coached up and starring on another team

Yep. Ramsey is BY FAR safer than the other need areas of this team. And as many have said already, he is a Joe Gibbs Redskin kind of guy. His toughness and leadership will prove that he is OUR qb!

[Die Hard]

Originally posted by gridironmike

:applause: Good point. If he did nothing else while he was here, he put Ramsey on the fast track to development.

You are joking right?

Are we talking about the Ramsey who played in just 5 games in his rookie year? Patrick Ramsey who was given those opportunities only after every other alternative was explored (including the offseason where he was drafted and almost traded because of Spurrier)? Who only got a chance to play in those 5 games because of the potential he displayed in his first action against the Titans... where the Ole Ball Coach was quoted in the press conference as saying "Shoot, we didn't know he could play like that. He surprised us all."

Or we talking about the same Ramsey that played 10-11 games this year and missed significant time due to injuries sustained?

After the first meeting with the Giants early in the season... I didn't see any development from Ramsey or the offense.

The only reason why Patrick was out there was because he was the only quarterback on the Redskins roster willing to take 7-step drops and make his deep reads as Spurrier demanded.

That's not "development". That's courage.. and he had that before he came here.

Now I hear his footwork has gotten a little better since his rookie year. Hooray for Spurrier! How's that for a $10 Million lesson? :laugh:

[RedskinsNation]

Mighty Joe has always been about conservative/quiet QBs and Ramsey is the prototype Gibbs guy. I think our defense will also greatly improve -

1. Because the coaching will be better.

2. I think our offseason moves will focus on improving the defense

3. They will not be on the field nearly as much due to the fact that we will be running a ton and keeping the clock moving.

[RedskinsNation]

Anyone plan on traveling to any road games next year??????

[Art]

Sorry, DH, but you're dead wrong if you don't think Spurrier was a great help to Ramsey as a QB. Ramsey's knowledge of defenses will be ahead of many 10-year vets because Spurrier's whole offense was based on recognizing the defense and getting to the right play.

Early in the year Ramsey was given GREAT freedom to check to new plays, something usually you don't see in young QBs. That's a benefit to Ramsey. His technique is FLAWLESS as a passer, in large part because of Spurrier's harping. His footwork has improved greatly.

Now, he still has weaknesses of the sort that Gibbs can assist in masking or correcting. But, as much as Spurrier has grown hated here, the fact is, Ramsey likely possesses the knowledge and growth of a five or six year vet because Spurrier's offense required that type of knowledge. You saw Ramsey struggle as he started thinking through plays instead of just playing.

Gibbs will remove a lot of that from Ramsey's plate. Thanks to Spurrier, Ramsey is probably more ready to play for Gibbs than just about any veteran QB you could get.

[freakofthesouth]

Originally posted by gridironmike

:applause: Good point. If he did nothing else while he was here, he put Ramsey on the fast track to development.

Spurrier did just as much to hurt Ramsey as he did to help him.

Sure, he taught him some technique, and certain philosophies that Pat is sure not to forget...

But he nearly ruined Pat's career.

You can only get hit so many times before it really begins to affect your long-term thinking; you would most likely start to think about getting hit, and not getting the ball downfield. Notice how Ramsey started strong this season, and, after he took some beatings, began to lose his presence in the pocket. He stopped stepping up, he stopped getting the bean downfield.

I just hope the damage Spurrier's lacking protection schemes have caused Ramsey is purely physical, and will cause no remaining, inhibiting mental damage.

BTW, this post needs a more proper title to show that it is an opinion. I thought there was some type of news released about it.

And, just to address it, Ramsey is the future of the Skins. The talk of bringing in other QBs is simply to have veteran depth; Gibbs has specifally said he believes it is important to have veteran backups. Gibbs stated that this is an important part of running an offense, and that sometimes, you are only as good as your backups.

ALSO....

Gibbs said that he has received outstanding reviews about Ramsey's performance. I would venture to say that Ramsey is a shoe-in for the starting position, and no free agency moves will be pursued otherwise.

[RedskinsNation]

Art - if Gibbs can teach Ramsey how to improve his play-action pass skills - for example if he could give a ball fake to the RB instead of faking to the back w/an empty hand it would look that much better (similar to PManning) Gibbs' offenses have always been playaction based and to do that you have be as consistent w/ the play fake as what you are w/ an actual hand off - and not give an empty hand to the defense to see.

[Art]

I think Gibbs will teach that type of ball fake. But, Spurrier didn't like it. He felt it was too risky to have the QB have the ball in an exposed position like that. That was one of Spurrier's dislikes.

Freak,

To be honest, I don't think Ramsey ever had a good pocket feel. He was sacked and hit a ton even while playing well early in the year. The reason the ball stopped going downfield complete is because after one rotation of coaching tape, teams seemed to know EXACTLY what we were doing. I remember watching the first Philly game just stunned that every time we threw the ball it was into double coverage. Like they were in our huddle. Things never really changed after that. Even when we would have a good game, it was because of nice stick throws. Rarely with a guy getting open and running free or confusing the defense.

At least not until the end of the year when Spurrier finally started creating mismatches by dragging receivers over the middle to isolate coverages better on a regular basis. I didn't see Ramsey show any ill effects from taking the shots. In fact, I was wondering what it would take to get him to start throwing the damn ball sooner a lot of times.

I doubt he's overly harmed by what happened this year. And with better protections coming into play next year, I doubt any ill effects there may be that I don't appreciate will be unnoticed.

[Om]

Having watched a lot of tapes of Gibbs I games of late, the thing that strikes me is how decisive his QB's always were. I don't think that's coincidence -- I think it's what JG demands.

That's really my only concern about Patrick at this point. The one key flaw we've seen seems to be the tendency to be indecisive and "hold the ball too long" ... but even that we have to view in light of what he was being asked to do under Spurrier.

If Gibbs can get Patrick to the point where he trusts the routes, can put the reading of defense experience he's gotten already to good use, and can release the ball on time consistently, I see no reason to think he can't be a very, very solid QB for a long time.

All the other physical tools and intangibles seem to in place.

Been a long time since we've been able to say that here.

[freakofthesouth]

Originally posted by Art

To be honest, I don't think Ramsey ever had a good pocket feel. He was sacked and hit a ton even while playing well early in the year.

I didn't see Ramsey show any ill effects from taking the shots.

I doubt he's overly harmed by what happened this year.

Yeah, you're right.

To add on, his charachter has been defined by his ability to take those shots in the pocket head-on. That's where a lot of his teammates draw their respect from for him.

My concern is that many young, talented QBs have been 'spoiled' by taking a beating early in their careers. But, as aforementioned, Ramsey's defining charachteristic is his ability to take these hits and be unphased.

He will grow by leaps and bounds when he realizes that his life will no longer be in danger every time he drops back to toss the bean.

And Joe Gibbs might teach him a thing or two. Maybe.

[Bazooka Tooth]

Ramsey will start. He is not only gifted on the field, but he is a student of the game. He will learn the system and prosper. No doubt in my mind.

[Griff]

Ramsey WILL START. He is the QB of this team. There is no QB controversy.

Like Art said he is everything Joe looks for in a QB, period. In Gibbs system his B-gator better make reservations in Hawaii

[Long n Left]

RedskinsNation,

Me and my buddies are already planning a trip next year. We've narrowed the choices down to Chicago, Cleveland, or San Fran.

I've been to both Chi-town (and may go there this summer for New's bachelor party) and San Fran, never to Cleveland. Lots of Ohioans down here say Cleveland is a fun town, and we'd have a blast there for a weekend. Plus it's got the rock n' roll HOF!

San Fran is one of my all-time fav cities though. Tough choice, it'll probably come down to a vote.

BTW, I think Ramsey is the reason Gibbs came back. He sees the franchise QB he always wished he'd had first time around.

[Heavy Jumbo]

Originally posted by Om

Having watched a lot of tapes of Gibbs I games of late, the thing that strikes me is how decisive his QB's always were. I don't think that's coincidence -- I think it's what JG demands.

That's really my only concern about Patrick at this point. The one key flaw we've seen seems to be the tendency to be indecisive and "hold the ball too long" ... but even that we have to view in light of what he was being asked to do under Spurrier.

OM, you made a good point of Gibbs' qb's being decisive, and that would seem to go back to his coaching. If all of his qb's were about equal in their decision making during games, we didn't get 3-4 qb's with that same ability, we had Gibbs being able to coach them into that or calling plays that masked their flaws.

I believe the reason Ramsey held the ball so long was to make a big play, which seemed to be Spurrier's sole purpose on every play.

[Die Hard]

Originally posted by Art

Sorry, DH, but you're dead wrong if you don't think Spurrier was a great help to Ramsey as a QB. Ramsey's knowledge of defenses will be ahead of many 10-year vets because Spurrier's whole offense was based on recognizing the defense and getting to the right play.

Early in the year Ramsey was given GREAT freedom to check to new plays, something usually you don't see in young QBs. That's a benefit to Ramsey. His technique is FLAWLESS as a passer, in large part because of Spurrier's harping. His footwork has improved greatly.

Now, he still has weaknesses of the sort that Gibbs can assist in masking or correcting. But, as much as Spurrier has grown hated here, the fact is, Ramsey likely possesses the knowledge and growth of a five or six year vet because Spurrier's offense required that type of knowledge. You saw Ramsey struggle as he started thinking through plays instead of just playing.

Gibbs will remove a lot of that from Ramsey's plate. Thanks to Spurrier, Ramsey is probably more ready to play for Gibbs than just about any veteran QB you could get.

The "Best case scenario" aside.... can you explain to me exactly which game was it that "the light clicked on" for Patrick and he was able to read NFL defenses?

Patrick Ramsey:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302216/gamelogs

Don't get me wrong, I was in the "the 2003 season depends greatly on the maturation of Ramsey at his position". And I think we BOTH agreed that if Ramsey continued the progress curve from his rookie season the Redskins had a shot at the playoffs last year.

Now you're not going to tell me after that 5-11 debacle and 2003 injury-plagued campaign that Ramsey's anywhere near what we had hoped he'd be... let alone lightyears away from a 10-year vet.

Only a fool would buy that crap.

With the exception of 2 games where the Skins were down 17 and 18 points respectively - and Ramsey's numbers were inflated - the stats and my own eyes didn't perceive that Ramsey's growing curve was any better than average.

I'm a patient man though. I can wait. I'm certain he'll succeed. But I haven't seen anything yet that leads me to believe he's grown leaps in bounds.

[WallyG3]

I'm not entirely sure that Spurrier helped Ramsey to recognize defenses better than most other coaches would have. Sure, the system should do just that.

In theory, of course it would, because the system relys on reading defenses.

However, it has been fairly well documented that Spurrier did not prepare nearly enough to compete on an NFL level. Spurrier himself at most times was surprised by the defenses he saw, and had no counter to the blitzes except to throw a screen pass. Defenses knew what he was going to do, but he didn't know what the defenses were doing.

So, if Spurrier was not himself that good at recognizing what defenses were doing, how could he teach that to Pat? That coupled with the lack of effort really put into his coaching anyway would not give Pat much of a "step up" in this area over any other 2nd-3rd year QB.

An indication of this is the failure of audible plays. Ramsey saw the defense, and changed the play as Spurrier taught him. The defense then proceeded to blow that play up.

Long N Left - I hope to make it to San Fran this year. I'd be happy to meet up with you if you go too.

[Chief skin]

I am in Ramsey's corner, the guy has guts and with a running game and some blocking he will be another Gibbs QB SUCCESS STORY. That will be 4 different QB'S Gibbs has taken to super bowls and won.