2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Rewatched Devon Achane. 

 

Yeah. He fits the mold. He has GREAT contact balance. He's not a bowling ball but he is similar in style to Jahmyr Gibbs. His issue is he's 5-9 185. But holy **** this guy is fast and has great balance.

 

He ran a 10.12 in the 100 meter dash last April in a SEC track meet. He should run in the 4.2s. He's not a power back. But he is a balance back that runs with that energy. I think he's going to go on day 2, though. At the latest. 

 

Re-watched Rocshon right now. Yeah, he's not lanky. He's a beast. Watched him after McIntosh before and it clouded me. Dude fits. He's gigantic, too. 

 

Yeah Roschon really grabbed me as I watched him.  Reminds me in that way of Pierce which is he is physical and a well rounded RB who is a tone setter.  Not as violent and nasty as Pierce but it wouldn't surprise me if he's just as good or better than Pierce because to me he looks faster than him.

 

As far as Achane yeah I agree, too.  I've every now and then mentioned him.  He gets skinny in the hole and is elusive and fast -- big play waiting to happen.  One difference between him and for example Mitchell is if a defender gets into the backfield before Mitchell builds any momentum, Mitchell is going down.  Achane on the other hand might dodge that defender in the backfield and end up with a big gain.   I think Achane is going in the 2nd.  I haven't studied him but watched him enough in real time.

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I definitely see/saw the breakaway speed, home run style of back with him for sure. 
 

When I think Pacheco, I see a ball of energy that is coming down hill and hitting whatever is in his way because he’s angry.

 

 

I agree.  I am focused on Pacheco's sick speed and breakaway ability.  but you are right Pacheco has some violence to his running style, Mitchell does not. 

[Est.1974]

Lame connection, but we’re bringing in the OC from Stanford by the looks of it. Seems like they have McKee at QB and a couple of receivers in Higgins and Wilson in the draft.
 

Thoughts on those ? Higgins at 6-3 230lbs and a potential 4.4 forty time stands out.

[Chump Bailey]

50 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Lame connection, but we’re bringing in the OC from Stanford by the looks of it. Seems like they have McKee at QB and a couple of receivers in Higgins and Wilson in the draft.
 

Thoughts on those ? Higgins at 6-3 230lbs and a potential 4.4 forty time stands out.

 

RE: Wilson I think he could be a fantastic WR with the only red flag being injury concerns, which is not small I admit.

[method man]

7 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

RE: Wilson I think he could be a fantastic WR with the only red flag being injury concerns, which is not small I admit.

 

Stanford has been a TE factory but WR success in the NFL has been minimal outside of Doug Baldwin

[e16bball]

On the topic of late-round backs who run angry, I think Mohamed Ibrahim (Minnesota) has a slashing style with a tinge of violence that’s always fun to watch. He’s an older prospect and was not used much as a receiver (though he looks okay at it), but he was super productive, he has a nice burst, and he sure delivers a blow.

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

RE: Wilson I think he could be a fantastic WR with the only red flag being injury concerns, which is not small I admit.

I don’t like Higgins. He’s big and they say he’s fast but he doesn’t look it. He looks lumbering and his routes aren’t great. His role would be as a big slot in lieu of a tight end. He can block DBs well but he can’t go in line or go up against backers. Not a big fan. 

[Est.1974]

10 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

RE: Wilson I think he could be a fantastic WR with the only red flag being injury concerns, which is not small I admit.

Thanks, just looked into that a bit more myself. Hadn’t realised the injury history in particular 2020 and 2022. Looks like an excellent prospect though. Ideal higher end-mid round pick for a team with a luxury of picks maybe. Not sure we are in that position.

[Est.1974]

On 2/16/2023 at 1:55 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

Sticky in coverage, clearly understands his role in a zone scheme, anticipates routes well,  seems be such an unusually aware player -- for example he peeled off his assignment on one play when he saw an opportunity to chase the QB and ended up hitting the QB, he tipped a ball on another play similar scenario. 

 

Awesome tackler, whether its going forward or laterally in the open field or catching a player from behind.  Weird to say about someone who is 190 pounds and change but he hits like he's 220, gets low and brings his dude down, comes off more interesting in a sound tackle that gets the job done versus making a highlight play.

Just trawling back through some of the info in this thread. Damn, Branch looks a complete stud. I’d love this pick at #16. I really hope we can plug a couple of roster gaps in free agency. Get one OL in free agency and I’d be happy going OL day 2 of the draft. More than likely even get an excellent Center prospect early day 3. 
 

Got to take a high end prospect at #16. Branch would be a great choice.

[Skinsinparadise]

Usually Keim gets really good as for tidbits as to what they thinking abouit the draft sort of starting in the mid March range.

 

His last podcast, he revealed a little.  Not much.  Most was obvious.

 

A.  Both guard spots 100% will be changed.  It's possible that Cosmi could play one of them and then a RT could be found in that case.

 

B.  Obsessed with O line.  Everyone is saying that.  Grant Paulsen said he talked to someone who works there who said a similar thing.  

 

C.  They like their young TEs -- Turner, Hodges, Rogers -- so he's not so sure they shop for a TE high in this draft. 

 

D.  This was the most intersting tidbit for me, the least obvious point he made, and a bit weird of a tidbit.  If I heard him right he said there are two O lineman that he knows they do not like.  So they aren't per se going to force a pick. 

 

Odd point to me because there are so many O lineman in this draft to why zone in on 2 they actually don't like?   So am guessing that means that there are two they don't like among the hyped O lineman that are supposed to go in the first.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

Tony Pauline's mock draft:

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-mock-draft-qbs-will-levis-and-anthony-richardson-slide-in-first-round/

 

He certainly likes to go out on a limb.  If the board fell that way, I'm taking Bijon, but I understand the pick obviously.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Tony Pauline's mock draft:

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-mock-draft-qbs-will-levis-and-anthony-richardson-slide-in-first-round/

 

He certainly likes to go out on a limb.  If the board fell that way, I'm taking Bijon, but I understand the pick obviously.

 

You want a RB in the first? Bold strategy cotton.

[mhd24]

Just now, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

You want a RB in the first? Bold strategy cotton.

I'm taking an elite talent.  With Mayer and the top 3 CBs all gone, I'm taking a top 7 talent in this draft.  At some point, you take BPA.  Bijon is head and shoulders above anyone else on that board.  I'd be fine with Jones for sure.

[DWinzit]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Usually Keim gets really good as for tidbits as to what they thinking abouit the draft sort of starting in the mid March range.

 

His last podcast, he revealed a little.  Not much.  Most was obvious.

 

A.  Both guard spots 100% will be changed.  It's possible that Cosmi could play one of them and then a RT could be found in that case.

 

B.  Obsessed with O line.  Everyone is saying that.  Grant Paulsen said he talked to someone who works there who said a similar thing.  

 

C.  They like their young TEs -- Turner, Hodges, Rogers -- so he's not so sure they shop for a TE high in this draft. 

 

D.  This was the most intersting tidbit for me, the least obvious point he made, and a bit weird of a tidbit.  If I heard him right he said there are two O lineman that he knows they do not like.  So they aren't per se going to force a pick. 

 

Odd point to me because there are so many O lineman in this draft to why zone in on 2 they actually don't like?   So am guessing that means that there are two they don't like among the hyped O lineman that are supposed to go in the first.

Love that they are obsessed with the OL. It needs a lot of help! It should mean they will address in both FA and the draft.

 

Doesn't sound like Paul is considered a starter which is also good. He can always work to prove them wrong.

 

I am thinking Broderick Jones is not EB's type of OL

 

Regarding the comments on the TE's, is there any chance it could include Thomas? I mean he was front and center at the EB presser which had me to a turn my head. I am not a big fan of it because of his injury history.

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by DWinzit

[Est.1974]

6 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Love that they are obsessed with the OL. It needs a lot of help! It should mean they will address in both FA and the draft.

 

Doesn't sound like Paul is considered a starter which is also good. He can always work to prove them wrong.

 

I am thinking Broderick Jones is not EB's type of OL

 

Regarding the comments on the TE's, is there any chance it could include Thomas? I mean he was front and center at the EB presser which had me to a turn my head. I am not a big fan of it because of his injury history.

 

 

 

Logan Thomas has to be nailed on as a cap related cut, or if he wants to stick around under EB he needs to take a decent sized salary cut. 50% reduction would be my call on that. Can’t see anyone else paying him 5-7mil per year. Kind of happy they like our young TE group. Drafting one before day 3 may be luxury at this point in time.

 

I really hope we address one OL position in FA. It’s not a great FA class but we can still upgrade for sure.

 

No forced pick at #16 or for OL is great to read. 

[KDawg]

I'm working on a different rating system. I keep thinking about how hard it is to balance floors and ceilings. So, I'm doing it in tiers based on ceiling/floor. Overall rankings may not fall neatly into this, as I have some preferences that are in, say, my teal tier over my purple or even green tier. But then I have some purple tier guys I prefer over blue tier. And then of course positional value has to factor into overall individual rankings, too, if you're looking to be draft accurate. So this is still a work in progress. It still requires a bunch of re-thinking and movement. But I spent 45 minutes putting this together off of my rankings spreadsheet.

 

I'd love to know thoughts on system/tiers. This currently ranks about 112 of the prospects I've watched (over 185 at this point) so there are more tiers to come by the draft (and a lot of reshuffling). So this takes us through the first 3 rounds and some change, I guess (though some guys may fall lower and other guys may come in).

 

First Round Valuation would be between blue, green and purple tiers. But the order isn't necessarily blue -> green -> purple. For instance, there is a good chance a Will Levis, Bryce Young or even Anthony Richardson are taken ahead of CJ Stroud, despite me having Stroud in the green and the other three in the purple.

 

Also for instance, I have Jaelyn Duncan as a purple. But not all high risk, low floor prospects are built the same. So Jaelyn Duncan may actually go in the second or third round because of how high of a risk he is.

 

No neat way to really do this. But I'm trying to work it out. 

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by KDawg

[DWinzit]

14 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Lame connection, but we’re bringing in the OC from Stanford by the looks of it. Seems like they have McKee at QB and a couple of receivers in Higgins and Wilson in the draft.
 

Thoughts on those ? Higgins at 6-3 230lbs and a potential 4.4 forty time stands out.

Huh, could they bring in McKee to compete with Howell?  Makes more sense to to bring in a vet, especially in a lame duck season

[DWinzit]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I'm working on a different rating system. I keep thinking about how hard it is to balance floors and ceilings. So, I'm doing it in tiers based on ceiling/floor. Overall rankings may not fall neatly into this, as I have some preferences that are in, say, my teal tier over my purple or even green tier. But then I have some purple tier guys I prefer over blue tier. And then of course positional value has to factor into overall individual rankings, too, if you're looking to be draft accurate. So this is still a work in progress. It still requires a bunch of re-thinking and movement. But I spent 45 minutes putting this together off of my rankings spreadsheet.

 

I'd love to know thoughts on system/tiers. This currently ranks about 112 of the prospects I've watched (over 185 at this point) so there are more tiers to come by the draft (and a lot of reshuffling). So this takes us through the first 3 rounds and some change, I guess (though some guys may fall lower and other guys may come in).

 

First Round Valuation would be between blue, green and purple tiers. But the order isn't necessarily blue -> green -> purple. For instance, there is a good chance a Will Levis, Bryce Young or even Anthony Richardson are taken ahead of CJ Stroud, despite me having Stroud in the green and the other three in the purple.

 

Also for instance, I have Jaelyn Duncan as a purple. But not all high risk, low floor prospects are built the same. So Jaelyn Duncan may actually go in the second or third round because of how high of a risk he is.

 

No neat way to really do this. But I'm trying to work it out. 

 

Great idea. I have never heard of one like this.

There is no right way of ranking, whatever works best for you.

I am willing to bet you will have a number of different lists in front of you as draft day approaches and during the draft.

[Est.1974]

25 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Huh, could they bring in McKee to compete with Howell?  Makes more sense to to bring in a vet, especially in a lame duck season

Not compete. Cheap #3 option I was thinking.

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Great idea. I have never heard of one like this.

There is no right way of ranking, whatever works best for you.

I am willing to bet you will have a number of different lists in front of you as draft day approaches and during the draft.

 

Trying to figure out a way to collect all of it together so I don't need to cross reference **** and make this more efficient. Like I've noted, I use this as professional development as a coach. I watch players techniques, schemes of teams, etc while I do this. But I have my own team to watch and scout as well. So I want to be efficient with my time usage. 

[DWinzit]

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Not compete. Cheap #3 option I was thinking.

I do get that and like the thought but he may go on day 2. I would be more inclined to think they would look at a day 3 guy like Haener maybe. 

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I do get that and like the thought but he may go on day 2. I would be more inclined to think they would look at a day 3 guy like Haener maybe. 

I actually kind of like the idea of exploring a potential move for Davis Mills, coming across from the Texans to form a 1-2 with Howell.

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I do get that and like the thought but he may go on day 2. I would be more inclined to think they would look at a day 3 guy like Haener maybe. 

 

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I actually kind of like the idea of exploring a potential move for Davis Mills, coming across from the Texans to form a 1-2 with Howell.

Not a fan of Mills or McKee for us. They aren’t the same style of player as Howell. They are pocket passers and virtually statues. That kind of player is slowly disappearing from the NFL unless they are absolutely elite. Neither are.

[DWinzit]

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I actually kind of like the idea of exploring a potential move for Davis Mills, coming across from the Texans to form a 1-2 with Howell.

Ah was he OC when Mills was there? Wow that is interesting if so. Nice idea

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Not a fan of Mills or McKee for us. They aren’t the same style of player as Howell. They are pocket passers and virtually statues. That kind of player is slowly disappearing from the NFL unless they are absolutely elite. Neither are.

While not considered mobile like as a runner, I was under the impression McKee moves really well in the pocket

[KDawg]

27 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Ah was he OC when Mills was there? Wow that is interesting if so. Nice idea

While not considered mobile like as a runner, I was under the impression McKee moves really well in the pocket

He moves alright in the pocket. I don’t mind him as a prospect, necessarily. But this team needs a backup with the same skill set as Howell. Needing to change an offense due to having a variety of backup QBs in rough sledding. 
 

Now, maybe the offense gets designed where it’s largely based on non-QB mobility and the other stuff is added for Howell. But I’m a real big believer that your backups should be similar in style to your starter for continuity.

[Chump Bailey]

12 hours ago, KDawg said:

I don’t like Higgins. He’s big and they say he’s fast but he doesn’t look it. He looks lumbering and his routes aren’t great. His role would be as a big slot in lieu of a tight end. He can block DBs well but he can’t go in line or go up against backers. Not a big fan. 

 

I am not familiar with Higgins, thanks. Wilson I remember from the Senior Bowl and he did make money I think.