The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Est.1974]

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

There is no reason to trade up for a QB in this draft. Heck, it's not even a sure bet that we pick one at 11. These QBs aren't remotely as good as the other prospects that will be available. Wouldn't shock me to see the first QB go to Pittsburg.

Half the veteran QBs available aren’t remotely good QBs but it won’t stop them having a ridiculously inflated market in FA. 
 

I would see the draft being much similar. Getting a rookie QB in the door on that 5 year option deal seems like a very prudent approach to me. I think 3 QBs go before pick #11.

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I feel like this discussion arises most offseason pre draft. I’m admittedly no expert so rely on this board to look into prospects. But I fail to see how we can sit at #11 at be confident in getting QB2. I can personally Atlanta looking at a QB to sit behind Ryan for one season for example. Half the league has a potential opening at QB. 

 

Rivera is very brave sit tight to go down that route for the second draft running. 

 

You're used to stronger QB classes than this one, where ther value in the top ten is a lot more natural and easy to justify.

 

A QB really only has top ten value if he can get a team in that range to fall in love with him, and these prospects just aren't clean or good enough to do that this year.  If we were picking top three instead of at 11, I would have a tremendously difficult time picking one of these QBs over the linemen in that range.

 

I see no chance that ATL uses their first on a QB.  Not without shipping out Ryan and tearing the team down first.  They've still got three or four seasons of good QB play with him, their division is completely open again, and they're not going to spend a premium draft asset on a bench warmer.  I think they go all in on trying to fix the D or they draft a stud receiver with that pick.

 

The only team in the top ten that I can't see either swinging a vet or talking themselves into waiting foe greener pastures next off-season (or later in the draft) is Carolina.  And I could see Carolina being the landing spot for DeShaun Watson.

 

I think we'll have either Willis or Pickett to choose from at 11 and I think we'll draft one of them and it will be a pretty good outcome all things considered.  Good value on a decent prospect who is a nice fit for what we need and want to build here.  I'm actually surprised at how little angst I feel about the position and the general future of the team this off-season.

[Burgold]

I feel like we'll know a little more after Senior Week. How these draft prospects pick up an offense, how they work with the other elite talent, who has a stronger arm or is faster at processing the field, will be seen first hand.

 

Sometimes, I think these events are overvalued, but getting a week to work with them is probably the best measure an NFL coach can get.

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I get that, but they also had less control. For them, 1-2 looked like a lock because the Jags and Jets needed to go QB and SF knew they were going to get at worst, QB3. In this draft, I don't see there being a situation where we go to #3 and feel "good" we can get our guy. Picks #1 and #2 are far from locks, and there's nothing to prevent, say, Carolina from offering #6 and future picks to the Jags or Lions for #1 or #2 to get "their guy" which leaves us with QB2. QB2 might be our QB1 internally, but there's no guarantee.

If picks 1 and 2 aren’t locks then by definition we have the ability to get to that place just as much as Carolina does. Jags clearly not going QB, Lions seem to be heavily linked at Edge but for me they should take the QB with the highest upside and roll with that. 
 

Interesting to see what unfolds. For me, we are not an appealing franchise for many high end vets right now. An ultra aggressive draft approach may be the best case scenario.Who knows.

 

Rivera has Mayhew and probably what, 3 other high end personnel ‘colleagues’ by his side ? If picking up Trubisky and sitting with a cup of coffee waiting to see what is left at #11 is the best they can do, well just fire them all now.

[Zim489]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

So I was thinking about it and I have a hard time justifying acquiring Jimmy G for anything higher than a 5.

 

Though I think I'd be okay with a 4. The chances that you get a 4th rounder that has had as much success as Jimmy G at a premium position is quite low. That's not to say that I think Jimmy G has had a ton of success or anything, but he is likely better than a rookie's performance from that slot.

 

If we go Jimmy G though I have a feeling it'll be Jimmy and Heinicke this season and their plan is if we stink, we get a top QB next year. And if we're good... well, we're good.

 

I think it's a bad plan to go into any season with your two QBs being Jimmy and Heinicke. They are like looking in the mirror. Jimmy has more experience and a NFL arm. Taylor has more escapability. Taylor also knows this locker room and system, Jimmy doesn't. 

 

Jimmy is better. But the two of them being the QB options is scary.

 

Maybe they draft a Ridder if they "draft" Jimmy, as that doesn't prevent them from taking a 1st round QB next season.

 

TLDR: Jimmy is an slight upgrade, cost is a concern, must follow through with quality options behind. 

Fire everyone... This would be my worst fear. Ron not picking his QB until year 4 while picking middle of the first round needing to trade up to get one of the top guys again giving up picks from the 2024 season and maybe beyond. Setting up the next guy for failure with the QB from the previous regime if Ron doesnt get an extension. Its the same mistake we keep making. 

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

This is a lethal blow.

 

We have done this before.

 

2019 we draft Haskins.

 

2020: We have a QB.

 

2021: We have Fitz, get a QB next year.

 

2022: We can get a stop gap guy and draft one next year.

 

2023: Not high enough and can't trade up, get a QB next year* (prediction)

At some point the team will have to sell off and tank for a year. They just cant keep doing this same cycle of drafting in the 9-15 range like they have done for 80% of the last 15-20 years. The shortsightedness to always do as best as they can every year just leads to eternal mediocrity. Unfortunately Ron will never let this team bottom out. Hes too good of a coach so his worst year is likely a 5 win season some where. 

 

Right now there just isnt a path to long term great success. Hes going to have to give up a boat load of assets next year for a better option and he might not even see it come to light while also screwing the guy following him. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Raiders aren’t committed to Carr just yet.

 

3 first for Wilson represents a massive risk. To think we are going to land the answer in the draft is a massive risk by sitting at #11. That’s the tough spot we are in. We may have to trade up for our QB1.

 

Needs must, unless Rivera plays safe with the ‘bridge’ QB approach with the addition of a later QB. I don’t see that appeasing anyone though.

 

I used to think they'd trade up but the vibe I am getting (granted pre Senior Bowl and things could change) is they aren't in love with a specific QB in this draft.  If so wouldn't that be a bit crazy to give up next years #1 for example to trade up to #4 to get a QB that you aren't in love with?

 

In other words, I get the logic of lets say they like next years QB class better and lets say think the top 6 guys are all sort of close to each other without one they love.  Then take one of these 6 and if they don't work out, then get aggressive in 2023 with perhaps a Qb class they like much better?

 

And again this seems to be their fallback plan instead of Plan A.

 

So lets say they think they'd take Ridder or Strong in the 2nd and they don't look hot, so they hold on to their #1 2023 pick and shoot hard for CJ Stroud or whomever.   This way they got multiple bites at the apple.  

Edited February 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Redskins 2021]

They will do something this year. With rebranding and hope for new stadium they will get someone.

[Est.1974]

10 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The only team in the top ten that I can't see either swinging a vet or talking themselves into waiting foe greener pastures next off-season (or later in the draft) is Carolina.  And I could see Carolina being the landing spot for DeShaun Watson.

I could see the Texans bailing our for picks and possibly those with multiple top 10 picks, both NY teams?, being tempted to trade back from one of those picks so that a team can move into the top 10 for QB. Potentially.

 

Agree it is widely considered a weaker class than normal. Option very divided. Same likely applies in league front offices which I think lends more towards people drafting these prospects higher that you’d expect. We will see that as over drafting, they will find something about the prospect they justify jumping top 10 for. We may be in that position.

 

Don’t know. With the volume of teams looking at QB changes I have a hard time seeing anything other than the draft being a QB frenzy. Irrespective of perceived value/talent levels.

8 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Fire everyone... This would be my worst fear. Ron not picking his QB until year 4 while picking middle of the first round needing to trade up to get one of the top guys again giving up picks from the 2024 season and maybe beyond. Setting up the next guy for failure with the QB from the previous regime if Ron doesnt get an extension. Its the same mistake we keep making. 

Rivera trading away 3 first rounders wouldn’t surprise me this offseason. He has got 3 years left so those picks are all on his watch effectively.

[skinny21]

14 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

 

Can’t or won’t ?
 

Bottom line is that it will be tough to get a QB period. It is going to cost significantly more than any of us feel reasonable. That’s the hand Rivera chose to play.

Won’t (IMO).  Moving to 4 makes the most sense (if we were to trade up), but if we do that pre-draft, anyone else could potentially move into the top 3 to steal “our guy”.

 

I don’t think we’ll move up to top 4.  I don’t think they’ll have a guy they think is worth the cost.  And it’s not just the cost, the staff would be risking it all on that guy.  But, who knows, maybe they absolutely fall in love with a guy prior to the draft.  Maybe they have a guy in mind already but aren’t tipping their hand.

 

I think the 2 most likely scenarios at the moment are signing a vet and then either taking a qb at 11, or taking one later (presumably the 2nd round, but I could see moving into the late 1st for that guy).  The latter option puts less pressure on the staff to get it right, the former at least means there’s some hope for the fans without spending multiple picks (enabling them to potentially try again in the near future).

 

I keep trying to find positives in trading for Garoppolo, but I just can’t see it.  The negatives outweigh the positives IMO.  

Either he’s a one year rental that we’re giving up a player (draft pick) for, as well as losing the cap space (and therefore more players we could sign)… and since he’s new to the system, we aren’t going anywhere except roughly a .500 record.  If he stays healthy, if he picks up the scheme quickly enough, and if we have better injury luck.

Or we extend him and lose even more cap space over a longer window, and at best make the playoffs and not the Super Bowl over that span, while losing guys like Payne, Curl, Sweitzer, Flowers, etc.  JMO of course.

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

  I'm actually surprised at how little angst I feel about the position and the general future of the team this off-season.

 

Judging by Rivera's interviews and various leaks they feel a ton of angst about the position.  And they are shooting for the fences.

 

But at least pre Senior Bowl, it comes off (at least if these leaks are on the money) that they aren't in love with any of these guys.  They are willing to shoot for one but without likely giving up any draft capital and are willing to shoot again in 2023.

 

Granted some of that involves some reading between the lines which might end up not true.  But that's how it feels for me right now.

 

Senior Bowl though could change some minds.  Narratives sometimes change if certain players burn it up that week. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[skinny21]

45 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Not in this draft.  It just doesn't have good enough QB prospects for multiple guys to go top ten.  And conversely it does have the defensive and OL talent at the top to get teams to pass on QB.  My guess is Carolina is the only team who picks a QB in front of us and we're picking from QB 2 at 11.  And there is also very little consensus on who QB 1 is, so we can get our QB 1 even if someone else drafts a QB in front of us.

 

Another factor to consider is the draft has unusually good QB 4-6 prospects who are likely to be on the board at the end of the first and beginning of the second, and very little QB demand from the teams picking after Pittsburgh in the first.  That takes the pressure off of teams shopping for QBs at the top of the draft, us included.  The result of all of this is that I could see three QBs getting picked in a range of like 9-20 but almost none before or after that in the first round.  We're going to have good options at the position in both the first and second round.  We don't need to trade up from 11.

Aren’t the same qb needy teams going to still be ahead of us in Rd 2 though?  I generally agree with your post though and could possibly see us moving up from our 2nd round pick, either to get ahead of some of those teams, or to get the 5th year option.  Of course, if they like a bunch of guys that drop (like 2 of the top 4 guys as well as Strong and Ridder), they could stay pat in the 2nd…

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So lets say they think they'd take Ridder or Strong in the 2nd and hold on to their 2023 pick and shoot hard for CJ Stroud or whomever. 

Both those prospects look intriguing to me. Perhaps very underrated thus far.

 

That said, Honestly, I think I would rather we trading out of the 2022 draft, tanked to a 3/4 win season to line us up for a QB next season rather than get a bridge and take a day 2 QB, and then plan to go QB next year etc etc etc.

 

Rivera has put himself into this spot. Last year was build the roster. This year QB. Build the roster again this year, doesn’t work for me. Another year of players careers gone, the natural volume of roster turnover. In 2 years we’ll be patching up the DL again and looking for corners etc. 
 

I don’t think he has time to wait another year. 

[RWJ]

RR and Co. don't get a legit QB this year, he's gone after this upcoming 2022 season.  I will go out on a limb and say you can take that to the bank!  Any and everyone knows that we need a QB in the worst way to win.  

[Koolblue13]

34 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Hope you're ready for the Jimmy G and Heinicke show.

I'm fine with that. At least the first one.

[Zim489]

9 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Don’t know. With the volume of teams looking at QB changes I have a hard time seeing anything other than the draft being a QB frenzy. Irrespective of perceived value/talent levels.

Rivera trading away 3 first rounders wouldn’t surprise me this offseason. He has got 3 years left so those picks are all on his watch effectively.

2. Dont count the last. He wont be coaching on a lame duck year. 

[Est.1974]

Just now, Zim489 said:

2. Dont count the last. He wont be coaching on a lame duck year. 

Even more reason to think he has to do something now.

[Skinsinparadise]

Prethumb injury if you average those 4 games for Russell Wilson.

 

72.7% completion 

9-0 TD to INT ratio

261 yards per game

 

 

[Zim489]

8 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Even more reason to think he has to do something now.

I would hope so. I dont want him picking a guy next year and possibly giving up a boat load of picks in the 2024 draft. If the 2023 guy sucks or the team is bad you cant extend Ron. 

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Prethumb injury if you average those 4 games for Russell Wilson.

 

72.7% completion 

9-0 TD to INT ratio

261 yards per game

 

What would you be willing to trade for him?

 

Three firsts has me gunshy.  I would really doubt our ability to put a championship caliber roster around him in that scenario.

[Koolblue13]

3 1rsts for Wilson might put us on the mountain, but that's a very sharp cliff in a couple years.

 

So, good for 3 years with Wilson and then tank for another rookie?

 

We're finally recovering from the RGIII trade and getting some really good players on this team and now we might have to give up our future again.

[samy316]

7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

3 1rsts for Wilson might put us on the mountain, but that's a very sharp cliff in a couple years.

 

So, good for 3 years with Wilson and then tank for another rookie?

 

We're finally recovering from the RGIII trade and getting some really good players on this team and now we might have to give up our future again.

 

It's Rivera's fault that he's at this crossroads in the first place.  Not drafting a QB last year in a better draft class, and signing Ryan freaking Fitzpatrick put him behind the 8-ball bigtime.  Because of their inaction, they're in a position where they have to swing big either by trade or by the draft.

 

We only have 2 or 3 pro-bowi level players, and a bunch of B or C level players behind that.  I would argue that we now have a worse FO handling the draft and scouting than what we had with Kyle Smith.  With how this past draft went, it might actually be better for them to part with some 1st round picks, if they can get Watson or Wilson.  This past draft shows that they reached in the 1st round.  

Edited February 1, 2022 by samy316

[Redskins 2021]

I think we have to wait for some of the Dominos to fall before we figure out who we will get for QB. 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Zim489]

5 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

It's Rivera's fault that he's at this crossroads in the first place.  Not drafting a QB last year in a better draft class, and signing Ryan freaking Fitzpatrick put him behind the 8-ball bigtime.  Because of their inaction, they're in a position where they have to swing big either by trade or by the draft.

 

We only have 2 or 3 pro-bowi level players, and a bunch of B or C level players behind that.  I would argue that we now have a worse FO handling the draft and scouting than what we had with Kyle Smith.  With how this past draft went, it might actually be better for them to part with some 1st round picks, if they can get Watson or Wilson.  This past draft shows that they reached in the 1st round.  

Based on past records and history IMO we have among one of the worst FOs in the league. 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

It's Rivera's fault that he's at this crossroads in the first place.  Not drafting a QB last year in a better draft class, and signing Ryan freaking Fitzpatrick put him behind the 8-ball bigtime.  Because of their inaction, they're in a position where they have to swing big either by trade or by the draft.

 

We only have 2 or 3 pro-bowi level players, and a bunch of B or C level players behind that.  I would argue that we now have a worse FO handling the draft and scouting than what we had with Kyle Smith.  With how this past draft went, it might actually be better for them to part with some 1st round picks, if they can get Watson or Wilson, since they clearly overvalue weaker talent when drafting (Jamin Davis).

I agree that Ron stoked the fire under the hot water he's in by cheapening out on a QB last year.

 

And reaching for Davis was definitely a mistake, even though I think he's going to be a stud WILL going forward.

 

Last year was a huge mistake all around, but I don't want to follow that up with more mistakes. Ron has a very long leash and we're a very bad team.

 

I want to be good for years, not sell out for a couple.

 

I think the smart thing to do is load up for the draft next year and bring in the best QB we can get this year.