2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skin'emAlive]

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

What do the remaining TEs look like? I'd love to grab a Wittenesque TE to pair with our QB for the next 10+ years.

 

The higher-rated TE's on the board right now are all more receiving threat than blocker. They are athletes that are big. We have Jordan Reed and Vernon Davis to fill that role. What we need is a versatile TE that can fill multiple jobs: Blocker/H-Back/Fullback/TE

 

Imo there are only 2 guys in the draft that can fill that role: TJ Hockinson and Trevon Wesco. One of them is drafted already and the other is being slept on because West Virginia never throws to TE's and he is relatively slow. But the dude is an absolute mauler with soft hands, and tremendous YAC ability. Additionally, he has a mean streak, experience at playing at any position on the field, has a basketball background, and forced a WR-Centric offense to rethink the possibility of throwing to a tight end. He will play in this league for atleast 10 years.

[ShredSkins]

37 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

Our two 3rds are #76 and #96: a value of 326 That could get you no higher than Houston's pick at #55. And even then that would be a minor steal in terms of value for us.

 

If you were to add a 2020 3rd, the median would be about another 180 points. That gets you anywhere in the 2nd. But then you are talking about trading 3 picks to move up to the 2nd round, when there is still alot of potential on the board. It wouldnt be the best play for us.

Not to mention that would leave us without a #2 and #3 in the 2020 draft. I'd rather trade the 2020 #1 for a 2nd this year and a 2nd next plus whatever, but I'd rather just sit with what we've got. Sucks we gave up a 4th round for HaHa.

 

I'm all for Parris Campbell in the 3rd (him and Chris Thompson could be fun together) and grab whatever OU lineman is left.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

BREAKING:

 

I found my Day 3 must have.

 

WR Johnny Dixon, Ohio State  ....

 

Why isn't this guy being talked about? 5'11 200 lbs ran a 4.41 40 ... "clinical route runner" who had 700 yards and 8 TDs this year with Haskins.

 

He's slated as a 6-UDFA by Walter Football

[Skin'emAlive]

Just now, ShredSkins said:

Not to mention that would leave us without a #2 and #3 in the 2020 draft. I'd rather trade the 2020 #1 for a 2nd this year and a 2nd next plus whatever, but I'd rather just sit with what we've got. Sucks we gave up a 4th round for HaHa.

 

I'm all for Parris Campbell in the 3rd (him and Chris Thompson could be fun together) and grab whatever OU lineman is left.

 

Probably best to just hold on to that 1st. Look at what Baltimore and Seattle just did with their late 1st. You can sell that and recoup multiple picks next year.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

What do the remaining TEs look like? I'd love to grab a Wittenesque TE to pair with our QB for the next 10+ years.

 

Funny you ask.  I was just thinking about that.

 

I doubt Irv Smith lasts but maybe his mediocre combine has him fall.  if so I'd take him in a heartbeat.

 

As I've documented here, I got a massive man crush on Jace Sternberger. 

 

I like Dawson Knox.  Maybe Kahle Warring albeit he's a bit raw. 

 

I like Drew Sample - if you want a blocker, that's the dude IMO.

 

I got my fingers crossed that there isn't a run on TEs.  I think WR will go fast.  I am braced for no Deebo, Butler, Campbell.

 

I am guessing my top receiver in the third round might be Whiteside.  I suspect he might still be there. 

 

 

[Est.1974]

Liked Cajuste for a while, although I'm not sure sticks around anywhere near our pick. Also likes Long Jr, ILB, and Justin Layne at CB.

 

those all being targets along with the best WR we can get hold of.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Kaden Smith is interesting. R-So ... Stanford coach says hes ahead of where Ertz was at that point in his development. I think with Reed and Davis still around, Smith would be an ideal "sit and learn" kind of guy who could kick into gear in Years 2-4.

He was a 2nd-3rd round guy at the beginning of the process ... but now he's being slated as a 4th-6th type.

If we pass on TE in the 3rd, and he's there in the 5th, I'd hope we take him.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Kaden Smith is interesting. R-So ... Stanford coach says hes ahead of where Ertz was at that point in his development. I think with Reed and Davis still around, Smith would be an ideal "sit and learn" kind of guy who could kick into gear in Years 2-4.

He was a 2nd-3rd round guy at the beginning of the process ... but now he's being slated as a 4th-6th type.

If we pass on TE in the 3rd, and he's there in the 5th, I'd hope we take him.

 

I am not sold that TEs have to be fast but 4.92?   If I recall he's already had multiple surgeries including an ACL. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

This defense is still vulnerable. Foster and SDH have a history of fragility and we lack a CB1 and FS. We could vastly underperform our front 7 talent based on those facts. I wouldn't mind David Long, or another CB. 

 

Regarding David Montgomery, I don't think RB is a great value for us, giving our team build, and I watched him and DO think he's slow. But, you've been pretty good with your RB analysis. Weren't you on Nick Chubb last year?

 

I've got a man crush on David Long.  My view is that he was the key to Michigan's coverages and that he was the single biggest reason their pass defense was so great.  He's a frigging glove who mirrors everything all of the way through to the whistle.  I preach getting instinctive players on both sides of the ball, and Long's instincts are exceptional.  Almost as good as Murphy's IMO.  He's in the opponent's huddle.  Thus I think he could be a massive value pick if he made it to 76.

 

But I like a few other corners too, including several young guys on our roster.  Still like Moreau and Dunbar, and I think it's a good sign Stroman played so many snaps on the outside without crapping his pants despite being a late round rookie.  Still think Hosley is worth a roster spot, and that we could get a surprising return on him soon if he makes it onto the field.  And I was a pretty big fan of Adonis when I scouted him last year along with the Edmunds brothers and Settle.  In many of the games I watched, it was pretty clear that Adonis and Terrell were the two best players on that defense.  He's a really big, alpha type man coverage specialist who can be overpowering in press through the contact window.  And IIRC, his off coverages were solid too.  So we're not exactly hurting for young developmental talent at corner.  Long would be a BPA selection.

 

I do think we're a little thin on reliable young talent at RB.  Adrian Peterson is on the edge of his cliff.  He's a mediocre runner now, and his primary value is leadership.  There is definite downstream value to having a first ballot Hall of Famer in your locker room, giving off that aura of competitiveness and seriousness and success that everyone else can soak up.  But realistically, we've got like a year of him left.  And I don't think we can use him as a workhorse again like we used him last season.  Not really sure what to make of Guice, that was such an unfortunate situation.  He's a gritty young man, so I'm hoping he'll bounce back from his injury and be a valuable contributor as soon as say, midseason?  But we also need to be prepared for the chance that he's never the same guy he was at LSU.

 

Chris Thompson is a trap.  He is so good that you become very reliant on him, but he does not have an NFL body and he will always miss quite a bit of time every year.  It's a similar situation to Marquise Brown, which is why I wanted to avoid falling into that trap with him, and why I was glad he got picked by the Ravens last night.  I would consider trading Chris Thompson if we could get back draft capital, as it's the only way I think we can get younger and more reliable at running back and break the cycle of always being submarined by his injuries.  But man is he good.  It's hard to move on from him without replacing him with a big time young talent like Montgomery.

 

As for him being slow, he can reach the edge of the defense first.  That's really all you need as a running back.  IMO he is a perfect market inefficiency to exploit--a "slow" rb with a weird body whose extraordinary gifts are not easily identified, who plays a position of enormous on field impact but low draft value.  I gave him one of the ten highest grades in the class and truly believe he is one of the ten best players pound for pound in the class.  He could be the best player on our team by his second or third season.  But he might be available in the third because of the market inefficiency effecting players like him.  I could be wrong, but I think he's Kareem Hunt with more creativity and shiftiness but skinnier legs.  Unbelievable contact balance.  Unbelievable vision and patience.  And shocking strength.  IMO he is better than what Nick Chubb had become last year, and better than Guice too.  I liked Chubb well enough last year, but I liked Guice and Michel more.

 

As for free safety and linebacker, I agree that we could really use some young talent at those spots to at least give us some depth.  Coney is my favorite MIKE prospect, and because of the really low draft value of the position, I think he could still be on the board in the 5th.  He'd be nice because he could push Foster into a chase and hit WILL role and you wouldn't necessarily have to two gap Payne, letting him play a little faster.  But he doesn't have a ton of versatility, as I don't think SAM is in the cards for him.  At safety we just need a deep safety because we've got Collins.  You know my thoughts on the value of a deep position.  All we really need is a relatively physical DB who can play single high and cover three zones.  We should be able to find someone to do it with a journeyman or a late pick.  Might be fine just playing Apke or Nicholson in the spot too.

[RWJ]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Funny you ask.  I was just thinking about that.

 

I doubt Irv Smith lasts but maybe his mediocre combine has him fall.  if so I'd take him in a heartbeat.

 

As I've documented here, I got a massive man crush on Jace Sternberger. 

 

I like Dawson Knox.  Maybe Kahle Warring albeit he's a bit raw. 

 

I like Drew Sample - if you want a blocker, that's the dude IMO.

 

I got my fingers crossed that there isn't a run on TEs.  I think WR will go fast.  I am braced for no Deebo, Butler, Campbell.

 

I am guessing my top receiver in the third round might be Whiteside.  I suspect he might still be there. 

 

 

Like to see McCoy with our 1st 3rd rounder as I think Risner will be gone.  Just used the nfldraftnetwork simulator and McCoy's gone but they still have Samia, Powers, McGovern and Davis are available.  One of the 4, please and Terry M. from Ohio St. with our 2nd 3rd rounder.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

The higher-rated TE's on the board right now are all more receiving threat than blocker. They are athletes that are big. We have Jordan Reed and Vernon Davis to fill that role. What we need is a versatile TE that can fill multiple jobs: Blocker/H-Back/Fullback/TE

 

Imo there are only 2 guys in the draft that can fill that role: TJ Hockinson and Trevon Wesco. One of them is drafted already and the other is being slept on because West Virginia never throws to TE's and he is relatively slow. But the dude is an absolute mauler with soft hands, and tremendous YAC ability. Additionally, he has a mean streak, experience at playing at any position on the field, has a basketball background, and forced a WR-Centric offense to rethink the possibility of throwing to a tight end. He will play in this league for atleast 10 years.

 

I agree with the tweet below but put Irv Smith above them.  Know IMO is a decent blocker.  Sternberger is a willing blocker but needs to improve but has potential IMO on that front.  I think Sample is a better blocker than Hockesnon and i love Hockenson.   I wouldn't take Sample in the third though maybe the 5th?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

29 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Why isn't this guy being talked about? 5'11 200 lbs ran a 4.41 40 ... "clinical route runner" who had 700 yards and 8 TDs this year with Haskins.

 

He's small and I think clinical route runner is very generous.  He's a deep threat who I think you can goose up his release by playing him at flanker and utilizing some motion.  I don't think he's a good enough route runner or tough enough in traffic to be a big weapon from the slot, you're talking about just vertical concepts with him.  But I would have doubts about him getting a consistently good release against an NFL press.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

As for free safety and linebacker, I agree that we could really use some young talent at those spots to at least give us some depth.  Coney is my favorite MIKE prospect, and because of the really low draft value of the position, I think he could still be on the board in the 5th.  He'd be nice because he could push Foster into a chase and hit WILL role and you wouldn't necessarily have to two gap Payne, letting him play a little faster.  But he doesn't have a ton of versatility, as I don't think SAM is in the cards for him.  At safety we just need a deep safety because we've got Collins.  You know my thoughts on the value of a deep position.  All we really need is a relatively physical DB who can play single high and cover three zones.  We should be able to find someone to do it with a journeyman or a late pick.  Might be fine just playing Apke or Nicholson in the spot too.

 

My fear at MLB is they go with Mack Wilson if he's there in the third.  He was a guy who I highlighted early on during the college season but I don't think much of him now.  I know he was one of their recent draft prospect visits.  And Hoffman said recently they really trust the Alabama program and tap into their players knowledge of their teammates.  Wilson from what I recall reading is Dion-Hamilton's best friend.  I also don't want Deionte Thompson.  Another dude that I once wanted and now I don't. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's small and I think clinical route runner is very generous.  He's a deep threat who I think you can goose up his release by playing him at flanker and utilizing some motion.  I don't think he's a good enough route runner or tough enough in traffic to be a big weapon from the slot, you're talking about just vertical concepts with him.  But I would have doubts about him getting a consistently good release against an NFL press.

The clinical route runner was from an Ohio State blog. So they're a bit of a homer.

[Skinsinparadise]

Wonder if they'd consider trading up for Deebo, Butler, AJ Brown or Campbell if a run starts at WR.  I don't think I would.  But I love in theory to get one of the next tier receivers.

[Skin'emAlive]

If Whiteside were to inexplicably land to us in the 3rd, its a no brainer pick. Sure, we could get McLaurin or Sills at the end of round 3... But Whiteside is on another level. People are sleeping on him. They look at his top end speed and move on. But he has an array of head fakes, shimmies, and false steps that allow him to get a step on everyone at the line of scrimmage. All he needs to be open is a step and a well placed ball. I would be thrilled to have him here.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

If Whiteside were to inexplicably land to us in the 3rd, its a no brainer pick. Sure, we could get McLaurin or Sills at the end of round 3... But Whiteside is on another level. People are sleeping on him. They look at his top end speed and move on. But he has an array of head fakes, shimmies, and false steps that allow him to get a step on everyone at the line of scrimmage. All he needs to be open is a step and a well placed ball. I would be thrilled to have him here.

 

I've spent some time on Whiteside.   He's not my top guy in this round.  But I suspect he will be in the next round -- round 3.  I said the same in the other draft thread.  

 

 

 

[RWJ]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Wonder if they'd consider trading up for Deebo, Butler, AJ Brown or Campbell if a run starts at WR.  I don't think I would.  But I love in theory to get one of the next tier receivers.

My favorite of all the WRs is A.J. Brown.  He won't last till our 1st 3rd round pick.  We have too many needs and I want to see us use both of our 3rd and not trade up. 

[Skin'emAlive]

Not a fan of going with any small wr that made his money in the slot in the 3rd. In case you all werent aware, Quinn happened to put up very similar numbers to Andy.

 

Andy Isabella:

5'10" 190 lbs

102 receptions

16.6 yard average

1698 yards

13 td

 

Trey Quinn:

6' 202 lbs

114 receptions

10.8 yard average

1236 yards

13 td

[RWJ]

Just now, Skin'emAlive said:

Not a fan of going with any small wr that made his money in the slot in the 3rd. In case you all werent aware, Quinn happened to put up very similar numbers to Andy.

 

Andy Isabella:

5'10" 190 lbs

102 receptions

16.6 yard average

1698 yards

13 td

 

Trey Quinn:

6' 202 lbs

114 receptions

10.8 yard average

1236 yards

13 td

Isabella is my favorite WR in the entire draft.  JMO.    If we are fortunate enough to have a chance to take him with our 1st 3rd round selection that would be a HUGE steal, IMO.  

[Skin'emAlive]

Now, I know that ive been banging hard on picks that I made for Seattle in the ES Mock... But a lot of the guys I researched for Seattle fit the very same needs of our team. They need a TE/WR/OL. We most definitely will go with 2 wr's in this draft. 1 will be a big target, the other will be a multi-functional weapon with high upside. KaVontae Turpin late in the draft would fit that bill. He's elite in the return game, and looks like Golden Tate when he's lined up with the offense. One look at his career cutup at TCU and you are going to ask yourself, "why did no one make a move for this guy" in a year. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Some prospects being discussed here.  Here's what the scouts told McGinn.  As for Whiteside didn't know that about his bench pressing. 

 

9. DAVID LONG, Michigan (5-10 ½, 194, 4.46, 2-3): Third-year junior, two-year starter. “I never saw the kid backpedal,” said one scout. “He is bump and run man cover almost exclusively. He is an old Raiders’ bump-and-run corner. He gets in their hip pocket and you ain’t getting away. He doesn’t waste a step. Not great in run support. He has instincts for receivers’ cuts.” Led the position in the short shuttle (3.97) and 3-cone (6.45). “He’s the sleeper of this group,” a second scout said. “He’s got really nice feel in press man coverage.” Finished with 37 tackles (two for loss), three picks and 12 PBUs. “I wouldn’t call him a complete coward against the run … but he wasn’t real interested,” said a third scout. “If he had to get involved he would. If you don’t give a (bleep) that he doesn’t play the run he’s a viable second-round pick.” Wonderlic of 24. “Grabby, lot of pass-interference calls,” said a fourth scout. “Good athlete, quickness and speed. Non-existent run support.” From Los Angeles.

 

11. JJ ARCEGA-WHITESIDE, Stanford (6-2, 224, 4.49, 3): Fourth-year junior improved his receptions, yards and TDs in each of his three seasons. “The easy plusses are ball skills and the ability to high-point the red-zone stuff,” one scout said. “The easy knock will be the speed factor. For a bigger guy he can drop his weight at the top of a route and he’s got some short-area quickness to get open. Alshon Jeffery’s game is just going down the field and going up over people. I think JJ has a little bit more as a route runner than that.” Finished with 135 receptions for 2,219 (16.4) and 28 TDs. “Really strong hands,” another scout said. “Wins all the physical battles. He’s a big X receiver but I wouldn’t call him a possession (receiver).” Paced the leading WRs in the Wonderlic with 29. Didn’t formally bench press at the combine or pro day. “He bench pressed 3,” a third scout said. “How ‘bout that? He never had benched. Because he can’t bench. He’s weak as (bleep). Now he can catch it. Third round.” From Inman, S.C., but he and Deebo Samuel attended different high schools.

 

 

4. DREW SAMPLE, Washington (6-4 ½, 255, 4.69, 2-3): Started 30 games in a four-year career. “He was the most complete to me as far as being a ‘Y’ tight end that can actually play in the passing game,” said one scout. “He’ll play for a while in this league. He’s not dynamic enough where you say, ‘OK, he can line up and beat people as a (split) receiver.’ You’re not going to detach him and put him at X like you could do with Gronkowski. Those guys are rare.” Paced the leading TEs on the bench press with 25 reps. “I’m going to say he’s the best blocker,” another scout said in reference to the group this year. “He got after it. He’s aggressive. He’s not a guy you call a blocking tight end. He’s kind of a dual guy. He can catch and block.” Finished with just 25 catches for 252 (10.1) and three TDs. “He’s better than the kid (Will Dissly) that came out of there last year that started for the Seahawks (before being injured),” a third scout said. “You’re talking about an old-fashioned tight end. A guy who blocks, a guy who catches. He is what we used to look for. He’s Zach Miller. Great blocker. They don’t run him on deep routes. Just crossers and flats.” Wonderlic of 33.

 

5. JACE STERNBERGER, Texas A&M (6-4, 252, 4.72, 2-3): Caught one pass in two seasons for Kansas before transferring to a junior college for a year. “I was told that Jimbo (Fisher) was watching somebody else at Northeastern Oklahoma JC and he said, ‘Who is this tight end? I want this guy,’” said one scout. “I think Texas A&M was the only scholarship offer he got and all of a sudden he became a star. He has a blue-collar mentality.” Fourth-year junior left College Station after one season in which he caught 48 for 832 (17.3) and 10 TDs. “Really good route runner,” a second scout said. “Quick, and he’s got speed. He plays a lot faster than what he timed. He can make plays in the pass game. As a blocker, he gives effort. He’s not strong or built for it. More of that move guy, today’s tight end kind of guy. Smooth, get-in-the-way blocker.” When the Aggies recruited two high-rated TEs Sternberger left. “I don’t think there was a bunch of fight trying to get him to come back,” said a third scout. “I don’t see him as a starter. Not saying he couldn’t be, but he barely played until last year. He had a really good year but there’s a lot of average on the tape.” From Kingfisher, Okla.

[Skin'emAlive]

Don’t give a **** what a wr can bench, honestly. None of his tape suggests he’s a guy that will get bullied for a ball. Now, don’t expect Whiteside to  break any tackles or bull people over. It’s not happening 

[SemperFi Skins]

Before the college year even started, Irv Smith Jr. (Alabama) was touted as the top TE prospect in line with Hock... If he lasts (doubt he will) he'd be a huge get for the new QB.

[Going Commando]

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My fear at MLB is they go with Mack Wilson if he's there in the third.  He was a guy who I highlighted early on during the college season but I don't think much of him now.  I know he was one of their recent draft prospect visits.  And Hoffman said recently they really trust the Alabama program and tap into their players knowledge of their teammates.  Wilson from what I recall reading is Dion-Hamilton's best friend.  I also don't want Deionte Thompson.  Another dude that I once wanted and now I don't.  

 

I'm not a big Wilson fan either.  I like the speed and brutality that he plays with, and the size is OK, but I do not see an instinctive player in him.  I think we should pass on him too.  Thompson is better than him IMO.  I'm a little more ambivalent on him.  Yes, he made some mistakes and just wasn't as good as past Alabama safeties, but there is more to work with there than with Wilson.  He's got some playmaking instincts, and he's got plus size for his position.  He really should have gone back to school.  Give him a year to develop and play cleaner ball and I think he would have gone higher.  Someone gave him bad advice.