Renegade7 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Zguy28 said: Didn't some folks already try to remove T. Jefferson's statue on a college campus in Missouri or somewhere? This what you talking about? http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/culture/la-et-cm-thomas-jefferson-statue-stand-with-jefferson-20151021-story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Court of public opinion it would seem. Whether the legal method or this one, if we agree someones statue like Jefferson won't get toppled, who's statue are you actually worried will? I’m not worried about any statue. I’m worried about ignoring laws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Just now, Kilmer17 said: I’m not worried about any statue. I’m worried about ignoring laws Laws get ignored all the time in this country. This seems like a weird one to be so fixated about. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Whew. That was easy. I think we all jumped to the justified part of this versus legal ramifications first, pretty touchy subject. I'd be sunrise if someone came on here and said they shouldn't be charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Renegade7 said: I think we all jumped to the justified part of this versus legal ramifications first, pretty touchy subject. I'd be sunrise if someone came on here and said they shouldn't be charged. should they have to pay for damages and restoration costs? or do they get a mulligan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Court of public opinion it would seem. Whether the legal method or this one, if we agree someones statue like Jefferson won't get toppled, who's statue are you actually worried will? https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1B12EG (Reuters) - A majority of Americans think Confederate monuments should be preserved in public spaces, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll, a view that is at odds with efforts in many cities to remove them. The Aug. 18-21 poll found that 54 percent of adults said Confederate monuments "should remain in all public spaces" while 27 percent said they "should be removed from all public spaces." Another 19 percent said they "don't know." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1B12EG (Reuters) - A majority of Americans think Confederate monuments should be preserved in public spaces, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll, a view that is at odds with efforts in many cities to remove them. The Aug. 18-21 poll found that 54 percent of adults said Confederate monuments "should remain in all public spaces" while 27 percent said they "should be removed from all public spaces." Another 19 percent said they "don't know." Politics is local, it would seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: I’m not worried about any statue. I’m worried about ignoring laws I mean we already agree on charging them if they do that, and establish North Carolina has made it illegal for localities to vote to take them down, are you talking about people jus saying F it and taking them down anyway? I don't know if you can have this conversation if the context of the laws being broken don't matter to you, especially when they matter to other people this much. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, twa said: should they have to pay for damages and restoration costs? or do they get a mulligan? I'd be fine with the sharing damages and restoration costs if it's spread out among the people that actually toppled the statue versus standing around. I'm not sure how much that would cost, but I think NC needs to find a way to fix there laws fast, we dont want a situation where regular citizens show up to take down a statue and regular citizens show up to stop them (think we've already seen that elsewhere, don't remember). I'm still on team tear it down if it takes too long, MLK knew he was going to get arrested before he even got to town sometimes, and don't forget Robert E. Lee didn't want war memorials, knew it would keep the wounds open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Politics is local, it would seem. Laws too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Laws too. Except, no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 24 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: This what you talking about? http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/culture/la-et-cm-thomas-jefferson-statue-stand-with-jefferson-20151021-story.html Yeah, looks like it didn't gain a lot of traction. Here is where I read it originally. https://www.change.org/p/the-university-of-missouri-remove-the-statue-of-thomas-jefferson-from-campus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said: As long as you get to decide who is and who is not worthy of support or memorial right? As I said, have fun supporting fascist historical figures. It suits you. Edited August 21, 2018 by BenningRoadSkin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 minute ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Like I said, have fun supporting fascist historical figures. It suits you anyway. Do you have any shtick that doesn’t require personal attacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 25 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Politics is local, it would seem. @Kilmer17 I'd be weary of a national poll to equate to how my state feels about this, since I believe we have the highest number of confederate statues in the country. I really don't care what Montana thinks about this, or people that don't have to drive past one everyday to get to work. Virginia is about 50-50 overall, but I don't think the upfront polling numbers do it justice since the answers tend to fall along political lines and latest poll clearly shows that. Living in different parts of the state, and that we are basically purple damn near blue now, it's hard to argue majority of people don't want them removed. I'll need to look deeper at polls for that town this just happened. Love to see a poll about people's feelings on tearing them down if the government can't or won't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Do you have any shtick that doesn’t require personal attacks? How is that a personal attack? You are okay with fascist statues and memorials and are cool honoring them. It seems like it suits you. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: How is that a personal attack? You are okay with fascist statues and memorials and are cool honoring them. It seems like it suits you. Have fun. Attack the posts. Not the poster. Simple. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Attack the posts. Not the poster. Simple. Have fun, holmes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: @Kilmer17 I'd be weary of a national poll to equate to how my state feels about this, since I believe we have the highest number of confederate statues in the country. I really don't care what Montana thinks about this, or people that don't have to drive past one everyday to get to work. Virginia is about 50-50 overall, but I don't think the upfront polling numbers do it justice since the answers tend to fall along political lines and latest poll clearly shows that. Living in different parts of the state, and that we are basically purple damn near blue now, it's hard to argue majority of people don't want them removed. I'll need to look deeper at polls for that town this just happened. Love to see a poll about people's feelings on tearing them down if the government can't or won't do it. If it's about 50-50 (I havent seen a VA specific poll) then how can you say it would be hard to argue that people dont want them removed? Also, how local should that decision become? Federal? State? County? Town? Neighborhood HOA? Who gets to decide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Fascism is an ideology. I haven't attacked anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 22 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: As I said, have fun supporting fascist historical figures. It suits you. Just now, BenningRoadSkin said: Fascism is an ideology. I haven't attacked anyone. I reject the implication that I am a fascist or fascist sympathizer or defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said: I reject the implication that I am a fascist or fascist sympathizer or defender. cool, and you support allowing people to honor fascist confederate historical figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: If it's about 50-50 (I havent seen a VA specific poll) then how can you say it would be hard to argue that people dont want them removed? Also, how local should that decision become? Federal? State? County? Town? Neighborhood HOA? Who gets to decide? Neighborhood should go to the town, this absolutely should be as local an issue as possible. Edit: fine with town making decision for the neighorhood. Locals shouldn't have to ask for permission from the state. A federal strike down Imof public statues id be fine with Edited August 21, 2018 by Renegade7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: cool, and you support allowing people to honor fascist confederate historical figures. I'm sorry this is so difficult for you to comprehend. I will be specific. I am asking you to refrain from implying my support for anything. I am perfectly capable of expressing my support or opposition to a multitude of positions and people, both current and historic. In return, I wont imply that you hate America, because that would be a logical fallacy based on your support for those who intentionally violate our laws. 5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Neighborhood should go to the town, this absolutely should be as local an issue as possible. I want to agree with this. But I think ultimately it should be a state decision. Too many local shenanigans to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said: I'm sorry this is so difficult for you to comprehend. I will be specific. I am asking you to refrain from implying my support for anything. I am perfectly capable of expressing my support or opposition to a multitude of positions and people, both current and historic. In return, I wont imply that you hate America, because that would be a logical fallacy based on your support for those who intentionally violate our laws. This whole forum is about personal opinion. First, you said I personally attacked you, when I did not. Then you defend the statues being up, only to now get upset when I repeated what you have expressed through this thread. I do not know what the logical fallacy is or where I have attacked you. I said, and will say it again, have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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