great28 Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 You just can't deny that TH has come in and made things happen. The guy simply gets it done while he's in the game. I know alot of people here seem to think that the O line blocks better for Tim, but that's absolutely ludicrous. Pat has been here the whole season with this group and I seriously doubt that they would block better for a guy that has been here all of a month or so. Tim just seems to have a better presence in the pocket. He moves around to allow himself more time back there, as where Pat sits there like his feet are nailed to the ground. If a defense knows the qb will sit back in the pocket all day, and is slow with his reads, then of course they're going to blitz. Hasselbeck is quick on the draw, and hasn't allowed defenses time to get to him. Do I think Hasselbeck is better? I don't think so. But one has to wonder, how good would he be if he were here the whole season? Make no mistake about it, Hasselbeck will be signed for next year, and there WILL BE a QB contraversy next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atloldskin Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 There is no controversy here. Patrick is the man. The good news is we found a backup QB. Patrick needs to learn from TH, and I think he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlobberKnockinFootball Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 There is no controversy. N-O-N-E. Hasselbeck is a very good 2nd string QB. He should be signed right now to back Ramsey up. I like what he brings to the table. But Ramsey's skills are much better than Hasselbeck's. I wish these damn threads will just go away. There is nothing to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I don't know what team you've been watching but there will be no controversy. How many times has good ole TH brought us back from behind this year? Case closed. As Spurrier is so fond of saying: "He is what he is"..a back-up QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Until Hasselbeck wins a game, there will be no controversy. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wicked Wop Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I think Hasselback knows his role and will be content with it. If I were the front office I would sign this kid to a few year deal right know and atleast know you got the QB position taken care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great28 Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by atloldskin There is no controversy here. Patrick is the man. The good news is we found a backup QB. Patrick needs to learn from TH, and I think he will. Yes Patrick is the Man, but you all are living in denial if you think there isn't going to be a controversy. Think about it, why would a back up have to learn from the starter? Shouldn't it be the other way around? The starter shouldn't have to learn anything from the backup. How many times has TH brought us back to win? You're kidding me right. How many games have we lost due to our defense not protecting the lead TH provided?. You can't pin these last two losses on Tim, so don't even try it. Brookboyz25, what skills might that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 How many times has TH brought us back to win? You're kidding me right. How many games have we lost due to our defense not protecting the lead TH provided?. You can't pin these last two losses on Tim, so don't even try it. Fact is, TH fades in the second half. Only down by 4 and he can't move the chains when he's needed most. He's a decent back-up QB. Someone who can mind the store until PR is healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Hasselback is proving to be a good backup, but no one is going to call for him over Ramsey unless Ramsey stinks up the joint next year. Ramsey clearly has better skills and a stronger arm, and when healthy will be more mobile like he was the first of the season. Hasselback could be like Frank Reich, or Neil O'donnell. as quailty back up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I wouldn't rush to judgment one way or another regarding Hasselbeck. How many of you that have already determined that Hasselbeck is just a backup and nothing more (ever), would have remained silent if Patrick Johnson, Gardner and Flemister actually caught some of those balls? Especially consider the last dropped pass by Patrick Johnson. Like the Fox game commentator remarked, there's quite a bit that Ramsey needs to learn and improve upon and Hasselbeck is showing Ramsey the way with smart decisions, quick throws and great movement in the pocket. Frankly, I'm very impressed with Hasselbeck, all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 First off, Hasselbeck IS SIGNED for 2004. Second, Spurrier is using a different, abbreviated game plan with Hasselbeck, featuring shorter drops, more running, etc. Third, Ramsey was moving around better at the beginning of the season -- remember the Jets game he won with a run? -- so maybe we should cut him some slack for this fractured foot he has been playing on. There is no controversy next year. Hopefully in TH we have found a cheap backup QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great28 Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 You guys are missing the point. Let me see if I can break this down. Next year, when training camp starts, and after a couple of preseason games, if TH plays better than Pat, who do you start? Patrick? I don't think so. You play who ever is playing the best and who gives the team the best chance to win. Now that may very well be Pat, but we won't know until next year. And once again, if the defense decides to step up and stop somebody, then maybe we'll come home with some of these wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I too thought the Line performance had been better since TH came in, but after some further thought and discussion I join the ranks that give TH credit for his pocket mobility and quicker thinking with the ball. Controversey? I dont think so, but TH has given us what Danny, Shane, and Rob couldnt somebody to count on in a pinch. Now if we could just stop somebody!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great28 Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by inmate running the asylum First off, Hasselbeck IS SIGNED for 2004. Second, Spurrier is using a different, abbreviated game plan with Hasselbeck, featuring shorter drops, more running, etc. Third, Ramsey was moving around better at the beginning of the season -- remember the Jets game he won with a run? -- so maybe we should cut him some slack for this fractured foot he has been playing on. There is no controversy next year. Hopefully in TH we have found a cheap backup QB. Where are you guys getting this abbreviated game plan story from? When Patrick was in there he ran the same plays we're seeing now. Just because Tim isn't getting hit as often doesn't mean they're running different plays. Tim seems to make quicker decisions back there. I have never read anything on any Redskin sight that stated that TH would be running a simplified version of SS playbook. Can you provide a source? If so, hit me up with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newera Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 What is quite evident, is that Patrick needs to speed up his game a bit. For Hasselbeck to be only sacked once in two games reveals more about him then the offensive line. They both are so different. Each of their strengths or each others weakness. Hassellbecks's mobility, feet work and speed of getting the ball off vesus Patricks rifle arm and deep passing game. Should be interesting. I still contend that Ramsey is still reponsible for about half his sacks because he has yet to truly adapt to the speed of today's NFL defenses. He's better. But, he has to get better. He takes far more punishment then he needs to be taking. He should be able to learn from Hassellbeck. NewEra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 its not like tim has come in and thrown 5 tds in 2 wins. hes been ok, but hes still 0-2 and has more picks than tds i believe. there is not and should not be any controversy. ramsey is a better qb and the future of this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Tim has been decent. He looks like someone you could count on in an emergency situation, but reminds me a LOT of DW, which means he cannot run Spurrier's offense in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great28 Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 They both are so different. Each of their strengths or each others weakness. Hassellbecks's mobility, feet work and speed of getting the ball off vesus Patricks rifle arm and deep passing game. I agree totally with you New Era. But guess who else had a "rifle arm" that used to play in a Redskin uniform? Can you say Jeff George? This thing with Pat arm strength means didily when he doesn't have time to get off a pass that would display it. Not to mention how that rifle arm over threw a couple of would be touchdowns. Though you could probably attribute that to his foot. I don't know. I think I would rather have an accurate arm than a strong arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great28 Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by terpfan its not like tim has come in and thrown 5 tds in 2 wins. hes been ok, but hes still 0-2 and has more picks than tds i believe. there is not and should not be any controversy. ramsey is a better qb and the future of this team. Why do so many people contend that these loses are because of the play of TH? Hell, if Peyton Manning came here to play we still wouldn't win because the defense can't stop nobody. Mark my words, THERE WILL BE A QB CONTROVERSY NEXT YEAR. That's just how it is here in Washington. I'm not dissing Patrick, I love the guy too. Just expect it to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaSkin Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I doubt that we have a QB controversy next year. Unless we win out under Hasselback or something there is no question that Ramsey has the better arm. Yes he has looked tenative in the pocket and can't seem to move but come'on, the guy has been playing with a broken foot. Now, I'm not a doctor but I have a sneaky suspicion that a broken foot might actually affect one's agility. Ramsey has a ways to go. A lot of us watched those first four games and thought he was all world. The fact is he's a young QB. Yes, he was a first rounder but he was the last pick in the first round and, like it or not, the jury is still out. I think he has all the tools to be a top QB in the NFL but it's going to take time. A QB controversy will NOT help anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great28 Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 Who here thinks that the last two losses were because of Tim, honestly? Because there are those of you who think if Tim wins out, there will be a controversy next year. Just because we haven't won with Tim in the game doesn't mean he will only be a back up. I honestly think this kid has what it takes to be a starter in this league. I mean, were all of the losses prior to Tim, Pats fault? I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by great28 You just can't deny that TH has come in and made things happen. The guy simply gets it done while he's in the game. I know alot of people here seem to think that the O line blocks better for Tim, but that's absolutely ludicrous. Pat has been here the whole season with this group and I seriously doubt that they would block better for a guy that has been here all of a month or so. Tim just seems to have a better presence in the pocket. He moves around to allow himself more time back there, as where Pat sits there like his feet are nailed to the ground. If a defense knows the qb will sit back in the pocket all day, and is slow with his reads, then of course they're going to blitz. Hasselbeck is quick on the draw, and hasn't allowed defenses time to get to him. Do I think Hasselbeck is better? I don't think so. But one has to wonder, how good would he be if he were here the whole season? Make no mistake about it, Hasselbeck will be signed for next year, and there WILL BE a QB contraversy next year. I hope not. Patrick has actually won games, unlike Hasselbeck. Also, if Spurrier were calling plays for Ramsey the same way he does for Hasselbeck. I think we would have a better record. When Hasselbeck is in, SS knows he doesn't know the playbook very well. So he scales back the offense, looks for more quick shots, and doesn't look to throw deep as much. He doesn't do that with Ramsey. This, also with the fact that opposing defenses aren't throwing out blitzes on every down, leads to better protection and more production as a whole. You have to remember Ramsey moved around pretty well in the pocket last season. Yet this season, he's been hampered by a broken bone in his foot. This is probably why he hasn't avoided the rush as much. One thing I've noticed he does better than Ramsey, is recognize where the blitz is coming from. There have been a few times Ramsey took blind side hits because he didn't recognize the area of the blitz before the play. That is really something Ramsey will develop with more experience. He's still a better QB than Hasselbeck, and should remain the starter for THIS SEASON and not just the next one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great28 Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by Gamebreaker I hope not. Patrick has actually won games, unlike Hasselbeck. Also, if Spurrier were calling plays for Ramsey the same way he does for Hasselbeck. I think we would have a better record. When Hasselbeck is in, SS knows he doesn't know the playbook very well. So he scales back the offense, looks for more quick shots, and doesn't look to throw deep as much. He doesn't do that with Ramsey. This, also with the fact that opposing defenses aren't throwing out blitzes on every down, leads to better protection and more production as a whole. You have to remember Ramsey moved around pretty well in the pocket last season. Yet this season, he's been hampered by a broken bone in his foot. This is probably why he hasn't avoided the rush as much. One thing I've noticed he does better than Ramsey, is recognize where the blitz is coming from. There have been a few times Ramsey took blind side hits because he didn't recognize the area of the blitz before the play. That is really something Ramsey will develop with more experience. He's still a better QB than Hasselbeck, and should remain the starter for THIS SEASON and not just the next one. Again, where have you read that SS has scaled down the offense so Tim can make quick shots? I think Tim has done alot to win games for this team. It ain't his fault that the defense can't stop anybody. Had Patrick been playing, we still would have lost. I mean if we had a half way decent defense, we wouldn't even be talking about this. In fact I don't recall Tim losing the game against Carolina, Miami, or today. Hasselbeck knows the play book very well, why do you think SS moved him up in the ranks ahead of Hamdan? Spurrier also stated that Tim was a very quick study and that he knows everything about that playbook. The reason the defenses aren't throwing as much blitzes is because they recognize that Tim isn't going to sit back there all day and will find an open receiver with the quickness. Sometimes having a strong arm can be a little overrated. O.K. so Pat has a strong arm. Big deal. Montana didn't have that strong of an arm and look at all the Super Bowls they won. On the other hand look at Dan Marino. Probably had one of the strongest arms the game has seen, yet how many Super Bowl did he win? Zero. Not dissing Patrick at all just being real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by great28 Again, where have you read that SS has scaled down the offense so Tim can make quick shots? I think Tim has done alot to win games for this team. It ain't his fault that the defense can't stop anybody. Had Patrick been playing, we still would have lost. I mean if we had a half way decent defense, we wouldn't even be talking about this. In fact I don't recall Tim losing the game against Carolina, Miami, or today. Hasselbeck knows the play book very well, why do you think SS moved him up in the ranks ahead of Hamdan? Spurrier also stated that Tim was a very quick study and that he knows everything about that playbook. The reason the defenses aren't throwing as much blitzes is because they recognize that Tim isn't going to sit back there all day and will find an open receiver with the quickness. Sometimes having a strong arm can be a little overrated. O.K. so Pat has a strong arm. Big deal. Montana didn't have that strong of an arm and look at all the Super Bowls they won. On the other hand look at Dan Marino. Probably had one of the strongest arms the game has seen, yet how many Super Bowl did he win? Zero. Not dissing Patrick at all just being real. I didn't have to read it, I see it with my own eyes. Spurrier's play calling has changed, he calls more plays with 3 step drops than 5 or 7 drops with Hasselbeck in. Most likely because of the weaker arm and inexperience in the offense. I didn't need to read an article to see that. I agree that if our defense had played better, this wouldn't be an issue. Yet if the defense had played better when Ramsey was starting, Ramsey would've won more games as well. There is no way Hasselbeck could've learned the playbook in a month. Everyone knows he doesn't know the playbook well, but he's a young QB who's been coached very well and makes favorable decisions. Joe Montana played in the WCO, not the Fun N Gun. He didn't need a strong arm to be successful in that offense. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
great28 Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by Gamebreaker I didn't have to read it, I see it with my own eyes. Spurrier's play calling has changed, he calls more plays with 3 step drops than 5 or 7 drops with Hasselbeck in. Most likely because of the weaker arm and inexperience in the offense. I didn't need to read an article to see that. I agree that if our defense had played better, this wouldn't be an issue. Yet if the defense had played better when Ramsey was starting, Ramsey would've won more games as well. There is no way Hasselbeck could've learned the playbook in a month. Everyone knows he doesn't know the playbook well, but he's a young QB who's been coached very well and makes favorable decisions. Joe Montana played in the WCO, not the Fun N Gun. He didn't need a strong arm to be successful in that offense. Big difference. He was calling those three step drop back passes when Pat was in there, remember? I believe he started doing that after the Dallas game. No, he didn't learn the whole playbook, but he learned enough of it to run the majority of the plays they were using when Pat was there. But here's the difference: When Pat was playing we found ourselves trying to fight our way out of a hole, in other words we were losing the majority of the games going into the fourth quarter: When Tim starts, it becomes a thing of protecting the lead we have, or in other words we'd have the lead yet the defense would choke in the end. And how far down the field do you need to throw it for you to effectively run the Fun n' gun? I've seen Tim chuck it pretty far down the field. I doubt SS would have him on his team if he couldn't. Lastly I think when Ramsey comes in next year, he's going to have to learn to throw the ball a lot sooner, because no matter how strong your arm is, I don't think he'll be able to throw it off of his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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