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Breaking News: Cuba's former leader Fidel Castro has died aged 90, state TV announces

visionary

By visionary
in The Tailgate

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btfoom

btfoom

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, jpyaks3 said:

You are going to have to source some of your "facts". Also its spelled "Chile".

I would say Fidel will fall pretty squarely in the middle of Latin American leaders, he provided the people of Cuba with healthcare and literacy but he used oppressive policies in the political sphere to accomplish it. He is no Papa Doc or Trujillo, but he is no saint either. He will probably be remembered more as a symbol than for his accomplishments either way.

Look at Cuba today. Want to see a very un-biased look. watch this episode of "The Profit":  http://www.cnbc.com/the-profit-in-cuba/

Remember that the parent company is very liberal.  Just look at life for the normal person there. Castro was a complete disaster and the reason for their squalor.

7 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I view Castro like I viewed Hussein.

as Dictators who murdered millions of folks who disagreed with their politics, robbed the entire country of its wealth, and were somehow loved by the dumb elites in the USA?

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Hersh

Hersh

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TimmySmith said:

I think the general population of the world can have an opinion on the demise of murderous dictators. And the opinion should be "good riddance".  

Unless your Donald Trump and you want to normalize relationships with Putin. Are you a supporter of that? Just sayin' that this country applies different standards to different brutal regimes. (See China)

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btfoom

btfoom

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Hersh said:

Unless your Donald Trump and you want to normalize relationships with Putin. Are you a supporter of that? Just sayin' that this country applies different standards to different brutal regimes. (See China)

Didn't know you were privy to Donald Trump's ideas.  You have no idea how his idea of 'normalizing' relations would be.  For example, Reagan and Gorbachev came out pretty good.  Are you a supporter of being an isolationist?

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TradeTheBeal!

TradeTheBeal!

Posted
Posted

Puerto Rico is pretty damn destitute.  Is there any way to blame that on Castro?

 

BTW, the World Bank doesn't really seem to think that Cuba is a "hellhole".  Ranks them as "upper middle" in Carribean GDP per capita.  Look for that to improve as relations continue to warm with the US.

http://www.caribjournal.com/2013/10/16/ranking-the-caribbean-by-gdp-per-capita/#

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btfoom

btfoom

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Springfield said:

 

Pretty much, minus the class Warfare rhetoric.

Not to argue with you.  But do you not see that many folks in the Hollywood elite area like dictators like Castro, Che, etc?  Just look at that idiot Kapernick with his choice of tshirt.

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Springfield

Springfield

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, btfoom said:

Not to argue with you.  But do you not see that many folks in the Hollywood elite area like dictators like Castro, Che, etc?  Just look at that idiot Kapernick with his choice of tshirt.

I think you can find that mindset anywhere.  I think you can find the inverse of it anywhere as well.

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btfoom

btfoom

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I think you can find that mindset anywhere.  I think you can find the inverse of it anywhere as well.

Please show me where lots of folks are wearing "Name that Conservative Leader" shirt exists?  Anywhere?  

The problem is that the communist type of leadership resonates among young folks and the Hollywood folks.

Don't believe me, just go online and google "Che Shirts" and then "Any Conservative Person shirts" and see the difference.

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btfoom

btfoom

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Puerto Rico is pretty damn destitute.  Is there any way to blame that on Castro?

 

BTW, the World Bank doesn't really seem to think that Cuba is a "hellhole".  Ranks them as "upper middle" in Carribean GDP per capita.  Look for that to improve as relations continue to warm with the US.

http://www.caribjournal.com/2013/10/16/ranking-the-caribbean-by-gdp-per-capita/#

In answer to your bolded question, no, Castro has nothing to do with PR.  The way liberal ideals that give too many folks money from a government that can't afford to pay them is the problem.  Just like all socialist ideas, having more people get money from the government than pay into the government (in terms of money) can't stand.  That is why so many PR folks have tried move to the US recently.

 

Also, the World Bank uses stupid statistics, rather than examine real issues, to put out their report.  Yes, the average person there is doing well, but the median person just isn't.  Sorry, I just assumed you would understand the difference between mean and median.  I can explain.

7 minutes ago, tshile said:

Uh, that would go to support his point I think.

Shhhhhh, let the kids expose themselves.

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TradeTheBeal!

TradeTheBeal!

Posted
Posted

 

9 minutes ago, btfoom said:

Please show me where lots of folks are wearing "Name that Conservative Leader" shirt exists?  Anywhere?  

The problem is that the communist type of leadership resonates among young folks and the Hollywood folks.

Don't believe me, just go online and google "Che Shirts" and then "Any Conservative Person shirts" and see the difference.

 

8 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I've seen about 10 gazillion Trump shirts in the past year or so.

 

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

Uh, that would go to support his point I think.

 

Really?  How so?

"Reagan T-shirts" really rings the bell with Google.

https://www.google.com/search?sclient=tablet-gws&site=&source=hp&q=reagan+t+shirts&oq=reagan+t+shi&gs_l=tablet-gws.1.0.0l2j0i22i30k1.2261.6100.0.6808.13.13.0.0.0.0.292.1988.0j7j3.10.0....0...1c.1.64.tablet-gws..3.9.1694.0..0i131k1.dVljn9h3d_A

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jpyaks3

jpyaks3

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, btfoom said:

In answer to your bolded question, no, Castro has nothing to do with PR.  The way liberal ideals that give too many folks money from a government that can't afford to pay them is the problem.  Just like all socialist ideas, having more people get money from the government than pay into the government (in terms of money) can't stand.  That is why so many PR folks have tried move to the US recently.

 

Also, the World Bank uses stupid statistics, rather than examine real issues, to put out their report.  Yes, the average person there is doing well, but the median person just isn't.  Sorry, I just assumed you would understand the difference between mean and median.  I can explain.

 

So instead of going by measures such as World Bank statistics (although I do tend to agree that GDP is a terrible way to measure wealth), quality of life statistics, or healthcare statistics, or literacy statistics we should listen to what exactly? It seems you have an ideological complaint with Cuba rather than one backed up by statistics or facts on the ground. Cuba is doing pretty well compared to most of its neighbors and most of the United States supported regimes in the region. Now is it perfect absolutely not, but its doing a whole hell of a lot better than Honduras or Haiti or Dominican Republic or most of the rest of the region, and that is despite an economic blockade from a country that controls or has massive influence in most of the western hemisphere. 

 

http://www.antillean.org/caribbean-ranked-uns-human-development-report-2014/

Cuba, The Bahamas and Barbados ranked first to third in the Caribbean in human development index (HDI) rankings, with the Dominican Republic, Guyana and Haiti falling in the region’s bottom three.

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Springfield

Springfield

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, btfoom said:

Please show me where lots of folks are wearing "Name that Conservative Leader" shirt exists?  Anywhere?  

The problem is that the communist type of leadership resonates among young folks and the Hollywood folks.

Don't believe me, just go online and google "Che Shirts" and then "Any Conservative Person shirts" and see the difference.

 

I suppose Tila Tequila and the "alt right" support of Nazism and Hitler isn't enough?

nazisalute_trans++6Tu25MhPcUZYcf4pwKixwp

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btfoom

btfoom

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, jpyaks3 said:

So instead of going by measures such as World Bank statistics (although I do tend to agree that GDP is a terrible way to measure wealth), quality of life statistics, or healthcare statistics, or literacy statistics we should listen to what exactly? It seems you have an ideological complaint with Cuba rather than one backed up by statistics or facts on the ground. Cuba is doing pretty well compared to most of its neighbors and most of the United States supported regimes in the region. Now is it perfect absolutely not, but its doing a whole hell of a lot better than Honduras or Haiti or Dominican Republic or most of the rest of the region, and that is despite an economic blockade from a country that controls or has massive influence in most of the western hemisphere. 

 

http://www.antillean.org/caribbean-ranked-uns-human-development-report-2014/

 

 

You keep using an index. In terms of doing well, a homeless person with 2 shoes does so much better than one who has one shoe.  And that person does so much better than one who has 2 shoes.  Overall, noone is doing well, but on index, there are some who are better that others.

Here is the reality in Cuba:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article89133407.html

http://havanajournal.com/politics/entry/brutally-honest-assement-of-current-life-in-cuba/

 

and many more. Castro has been a complete disaster for his country as a result of the old cold war communism issues.  If it were a free, democratic country, it would be so much more advanced than it is.

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Hersh

Hersh

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, btfoom said:

Didn't know you were privy to Donald Trump's ideas.  You have no idea how his idea of 'normalizing' relations would be.  For example, Reagan and Gorbachev came out pretty good.  Are you a supporter of being an isolationist?

Um, I'm pretty sure that Donald Trump "wouldn't it be nice if we got along with Russia" and he has praised Putin in the past as a strong leader instead of calling him a brutal dictator that murders and oppresses his people. 

I'm not at all a supporter of isolationism, but normalizing relations with Russia and their brutal dictator is not remotely the same as normalizing relations with Cuba and their regime. 

19 minutes ago, btfoom said:

When you can't see the difference between folks like these idiots and some has-been like TT, well then I know how ignorant you are:

http://www.nonsensibleshoes.com/2013/08/top-10-celebrities-sporting-thug-che.html

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/29/donald-trump-has-record-siding-vladimir-putin-key-/

Enjoy this article from the conservative Washington times and please take note of the Trump supporter wearing a Trump/Putin 16 t-shirt. 

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btfoom

btfoom

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Che Guevara killed millions?

 

7 minutes ago, Springfield said:

How many did Hitler kill?  Because last I checked it was Hitler that popularized the seig heil, not Trump.

Yes, you both need to learn history (and Springfield, never quote Hitler unless you know what he was really about):

More that a million, yes, Che and Castro killed millions who were against them:

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/michael-j-totten/truth-about-che-guevara

http://www.therealcuba.com/?page_id=32

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/4077397/It-is-a-sad-reflection-of-our-time-that-Che-Guevara-is-seen-as-a-hero.html

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jpyaks3

jpyaks3

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, btfoom said:

You keep using an index. In terms of doing well, a homeless person with 2 shoes does so much better than one who has one shoe.  And that person does so much better than one who has 2 shoes.  Overall, noone is doing well, but on index, there are some who are better that others.

Here is the reality in Cuba:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article89133407.html

http://havanajournal.com/politics/entry/brutally-honest-assement-of-current-life-in-cuba/

 

and many more. Castro has been a complete disaster for his country as a result of the old cold war communism issues.  If it were a free, democratic country, it would be so much more advanced than it is.

So we shouldn't compare Cuba with its neighbors or countries that have similar resources and population, what exactly should we compare it to? I mean you have posted an op-ed from someone who provides no real numbers or anything beyond polemic and then you posted an article that contextualizes numbers but goes against your point. 

“Of course these income figures are relatively low in contrast to other nations and the average Cuban still struggles to make ends meet,” Rose noted. But the firm said the income figures should also be taken in the context that “Cubans receive free healthcare and education, as well as minimally subsidized living expenses.”


You also have failed to point to a Caribbean country with similar population and resources that has done better. The fact is that by Human Development Index and most statistics Cuba is doing pretty well for being a Caribbean island in America's backyard, especially when you compare it to those countries where America has had a hand in supporting leadership (both elected and dictatorial), that fact that this doesn't line up with your ideology and ideological view doesn't erase those statistics or show how Cuba is doing better than most in the Caribbean. You assert that if it were "a free, democratic country it would be so much more advanced than it is." but where exactly is your proof of that? And how do you define free and/or democratic (not saying that Cuba necessarily was a paragon of either)?

3 minutes ago, btfoom said:

 

Yes, you both need to learn history (and Springfield, never quote Hitler unless you know what he was really about):

More that a million, yes, Che and Castro killed millions who were against them:

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/michael-j-totten/truth-about-che-guevara

http://www.therealcuba.com/?page_id=32

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/4077397/It-is-a-sad-reflection-of-our-time-that-Che-Guevara-is-seen-as-a-hero.html

You are absolutely incorrect and your links don't support your argument at all (even as poorly sourced and biased as they are). 

 

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