For the Record: Who Would You Have Drafted?

[Long n Left]

The Skins clearly weren't ecstatic about doctson or they wouldn't have traded back one pick and risked Houston taking him. I think we really wanted Kelly or Joseph. When they weren't available and we failed making the trade back with Denver and Dallas, we settled for doctson. I would've taken Vernon butler or Nkemdiche.

Could be that they had Doctson and Treadwell the sure fire #1 and #2 left on their board, and decided to grab another pick knowing that they'd get one or the other for certain.

[sportsnut]

Could be that they had Doctson and Treadwell the sure fire #1 and #2 left on their board, and decided to grab another pick knowing that they'd get one or the other for certain.

With all of Scot's talk of finding the right type of football players, it seems strange that they would have two wide receivers ranked equally and would be willing to let someone else determine which one they get for only a sixth rounder next year. Maybe they somehow just knew that Houston wouldn't take doctson.

[Skinsinparadise]

The Skins clearly weren't ecstatic about doctson or they wouldn't have traded back one pick and risked Houston taking him. I think we really wanted Kelly or Joseph. When they weren't available and we failed making the trade back with Denver and Dallas, we settled for doctson. I would've taken Vernon butler or Nkemdiche.

 

That's quite the assumption, they weren't ecstatic about the pick?  Scot indicated in a post draft interview otherwise, ditto Bruce Allen.  Outside of Scot did reveal that he liked Ryan Kelly but didn't say he'd have picked him.    

 

When asked about the trade Scot gave a wide smile and said he had a strong idea of what the Texans would do when they traded them the pick.   Bruce Allen in a 980 interview indicated the same thing and also said they had the opportunity to trade down again from 22 but didn't want to do so because they thought they'd lose Doctson.   Keim said that he heard before they draft they liked Doctson a lot.  And said recently in an article I posted here that the only WR they'd have considered in the first round was Doctson.  Then you had McVay and Jay in separate interviews comparing Doctson to AJ Green.

 

Then consider context, WR isn't a need.  And they take a receiver anyway.  Is it really intuitive that they take a player in a non-need position and they aren't enthusiastic about the guy?  Outside of Scot doing jumping jacks, don't know what more needs to be said and done to indicate that they really dug that pick? 

[sportsnut]

Scot went with the best player available and I'm sure he likes him a lot, but I don't think he was ecstatic because it wasn't a position of need. Ideally, I think he would've preferred to trade down for fair value to a spot where the best player available also filled a need.

I'd be curious how he knew Houston wouldn't take doctson given that they clearly wanted a wide receiver. That's a big risk for a really small gain (i.e., 6th rounder next year).

[Skinsinparadise]

Scot went with the best player available and I'm sure he likes him a lot, but I don't think he was ecstatic because it wasn't a position of need. Ideally, I think he would've preferred to trade down for fair value to a spot where the best player available also filled a need.

I'd be curious how he knew Houston wouldn't take doctson given that they clearly wanted a wide receiver. That's a big risk for a really small gain (i.e., 6th rounder next year).

 

Seemed like part of it was inside information at least that's how it came across to me when Scot smirked when he was asked how he knew -- other part is it seemed pretty clear that the Texans needed a burner to go with Hopkins, not another big WR like Doctson.

 

As for Scot not being ecstatic because it wasn't a position of need, maybe, but that would go against the grain of what Scot says all the time which is he's a BPA guy not a need guy.  If for example they truly think Doctson is AJ Green level good, I'd bet they are indeed ecstatic.  And if he preferred to trade down versus taking Doctson at 22 -- then why would Bruce Allen say they got offers to do just that but they didn't want to lose the player.   Even if lets say we question Bruce and say he was lying -- there were a lot of trades in the first, why wouldn't they be able to pull another one off?

[sportsnut]

I think they tried hard to trade down but never received a fair market deal. I read reports that they were close to making a big deal with both Denver and Dallas so they could move up to get lynch. Some think that the trade down with Houston was only to give them more time to work a bigger trade down.

[TSO]

With all of Scot's talk of finding the right type of football players, it seems strange that they would have two wide receivers ranked equally and would be willing to let someone else determine which one they get for only a sixth rounder next year. Maybe they somehow just knew that Houston wouldn't take doctson.

 

This is my take on it, honestly. I don't think they want to say it, but every time they're asked about how that trade came about, they kind of chuckle slyly or do something else that gives a subtle indication that they feel like they got one over on Houston. 

 

All speculation from me, but I just get the sense that they knew Houston wanted Fuller, but they either told Houston they were taking Fuller or that some other team (likely the Vikings) was going to trade up for Fuller if they didn't first. Something like "yeah, the Vikings want to give us a 7th this year but we'll take your 6th next year so you get your guy". 

I think they tried hard to trade down but never received a fair market deal. I read reports that they were close to making a big deal with both Denver and Dallas so they could move up to get lynch. Some think that the trade down with Houston was only to give them more time to work a bigger trade down.

 

Or it could be this.

[Mania]

Tough call due to us most likely losing both WR's at the end of the year.  I think I would have  taken Treadwell over Josh Doctson.  That being said, if we hadn't just signed Norman, my unquestioned pick would have been William Jackson III, but that's a moot point. 

[illone]

I'm shocked at how many people wanted Treadwell.

 

Be interesting to compare these 1st round WR over the next few years.

[nonniey]

My contention on Doctson was always: "there's NO WAY he makes it to 21....& if by some miracle he does...you run to the podium."

Cravens was high on my board...had him as a late 1st round grade, but was willing to sede that many others may not see it that way. So Bell, as i stated, might have been my pick, hoping that Cravens fell to the 3rd.

OK the homerism has taken hold here. Most predraft media predicted Doctson would go roughly around where he did and actually slightly lower. To say it you're amazed or it was a miracle that he was at 21/22 just doesn't cut the mustard. I always expected he'd go between 22-36.

[Skinsinparadise]

I think they tried hard to trade down but never received a fair market deal. I read reports that they were close to making a big deal with both Denver and Dallas so they could move up to get lynch. Some think that the trade down with Houston was only to give them more time to work a bigger trade down.

 

Love to see those reports?  I am a bit of a media junkie and the only thing I saw about that thought was speculation before the draft that the Redskins could be a trading partner.  I haven't seen anything afterwards about that going on during the draft  Maybe I missed the article if so I am super curious.   Even in the Peter King expose about Jerry Jones where Jones gave blow by blow about his conversations on trading up -- don't recall a Redskins mention in that mix. Unless I missed it, I'll go back and read it because Jerry spilled the beans in it about his conversations about trading up.

 

And if you go to the 980 archives and listen to Bruce Allen's interview he flat out said they could have traded down from 22 but didn't want to because they would have lost Doctson.  

[Skinsinparadise]

OK the homerism has taken hold here. Most predraft media predicted Doctson would go roughly around where he did and actually slightly lower. To say it you're amazed or it was a miracle that he was at 21/22 just doesn't cut the mustard. I always expected he'd go between 22-36.

 

 

This is both true and not.  Yeah I saw Doctson go into the 20s in plenty of mocks.  However, you had some big names draft geeks have Doctson higher. Some even top 10.  On draft day, Todd McShay had Doctson go #8.  Profootball Focus had him go #10.  SB Nation top 10.  If I recall he was #11 on Kiper's big board.  Kiper called it a steal.  Having said that I doubt Scot cares what the draft geeks or for that matter anyone else thinks of Doctson, if he thinks he's a stud, its all that matters I'd bet to him.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/24860/mel-kiper-high-on-redskins-draft-class-calls-josh-doctson-a-steal

 

Mel Kiper high on Redskins' draft class, calls Josh Doctson a steal

 

 

Here's McShay:

 

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2016/04/todd-mcshay-mock-draft-browns-josh-doctson/

 

Josh Doctson has freakish jumping ability and ball skills to be tough defend in 50/50 balls. He can out jump defenders, using his strong hands to rip the ball out of the air. He has good body control to shield defenders away from the pass, gaining the right position to make the catch. He has quickness and solid route running ability to gain separation in coverage. After the catch, he can make the first man miss and extend a play.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/04/19/draft-the-pff-seven-round-mock-draft/

 

10. Tennessee Titans (from New York Giants): Josh Doctson, WR, TCU

 

The expectation is that the Titans will be looking to spend a premium pick to upgrade their tackle situation, but we instead wanted to target either Corey Coleman or Josh Doctson, both playmaking WRs we had top-10 grades for. Once Coleman went off the board we knew we’d need to be aggressive in order to lock up Doctson, and fortunately we were able make a deal with the Giants (giving up Nos. 15, 64 and 140) that still left us with a number of power pieces in the draft. Doctson can do it all as an outside receiver, a position we found necessary to fill because the current roster lacks perimeter talent outside of Dorial Green-Beckham, who is at this stage an unproven commodity. Doctson’s QBs at TCU had a rating of 149.1 when throwing the ball his way, tops in the draft class (Coleman’s QBs rated 133.1 on his targets).

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2016/4/4/11354990/nfl-draft-2016-mock-josh-doctson-laquon-treadwell

10. New York Giants: Josh Doctson, WR, TCU

Yes, the first receiver off the board isn't Laquon Treadwell, but why that's a surprise and not happening more often is something I'm still trying to figure out. Doctson is faster and more explosive, and with Treadwell's recent disappointing showings at the NFL Combine and his pro day, I wouldn't be surprised if the TCU product is the first receiver off the board. In New York he'd be paired with Odell Beckham Jr., giving the Giants a dangerous one-two punch.

[sportsnut]

Love to see those reports? I am a bit of a media junkie and the only thing I saw about that thought was speculation before the draft that the Redskins could be a trading partner. I haven't seen anything afterwards about that going on during the draft Maybe I missed the article if so I am super curious. Even in the Peter King expose about Jerry Jones where Jones gave blow by blow about his conversations on trading up -- don't recall a Redskins mention in that mix. Unless I missed it, I'll go back and read it because Jerry spilled the beans in it about his conversations about trading up.

And if you go to the 980 archives and listen to Bruce Allen's interview he flat out said they could have traded down from 22 but didn't want to because they would have lost Doctson.

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/why-did-redskins-trade-down-one-spot-first-round

This article mentions the theory that the skins may have traded with Houston to give them more time to work a deal with Dallas.

[nonniey]

Love to see those reports?  I am a bit of a media junkie and the only thing I saw about that thought was speculation before the draft that the Redskins could be a trading partner.  I haven't seen anything afterwards about that going on during the draft  Maybe I missed the article if so I am super curious.   Even in the Peter King expose about Jerry Jones where Jones gave blow by blow about his conversations on trading up -- don't recall a Redskins mention in that mix. Unless I missed it, I'll go back and read it because Jerry spilled the beans in it about his conversations about trading up.

 

And if you go to the 980 archives and listen to Bruce Allen's interview he flat out said they could have traded down from 22 but didn't want to because they would have lost Doctson.

I saw that report somewhere (don't remember where but it was a media report - CSN or Rotoworld maybe) and went looking myself as well. Didn't find anything else though.

[Skinsinparadise]

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/why-did-redskins-trade-down-one-spot-first-round

This article mentions the theory that the skins may have traded with Houston to give them more time to work a deal with Dallas.

 

Thanks for the article.  But it doesn't IMO indicate that's what happened.  The way I read that article some guys in the media room are just guessing that's what the Redskins might be doing.  The operative word was "perhaps".  We could guess, too.  I am talking about Scott or Bruce or someone real close to the action like A. Schefter saying their sources tell him such and such.   I am not saying it didn't go down that way, I got no idea one way or another.  But for the moment all facts seem to point that they wanted Doctson at 22 and weren't in heavy talks with Dallas.

 

Here are things being said directly by sources in play (no guessing or speculating) 

 

A.  Jerry Jones who spilled the beans about who he was actually talking to about a trade back into the first mentions a whole bunch of teams in play as you'll see from the article.  The Redskins not among those teams.

 

B.  Bruce Allen said they indeed had an opportunity to trade down again from #22 but didn't want to do it because they'd have lost Doctson.  The same article you posted indicated that they had options.  But didn't pull the trigger.

 

C. John Keim who is pretty conservative with his sources said he heard before the draft that they really like Doctson (he didn't think they'd pick him though) and said the other day his sources tell him Doctson is the only WR they'd have taken in the first.

 

D.  To me IMO all this adds up to they really really liked Doctson a lot and when he fell to their pick -- another team had to blow them away with an offer for them to trade down. 

 

Is it possible Dallas called them about a trade and Jerry decided to not mention it even though he talked up a storm about everything else that went down that day including mentioning a whole bunch of teams they targeted for a trade?  And the MMQ article also said they had sources to corroborate the Cowboys draft room happenstances.  So somehow both Jerry and the sources close to the action fail to disclose the Redskins and them talking?  

 

It's a bit far fetched I think but to play along.  Lets say Jerry did talk to the Redskins -- then Bruce's response about not wanting to lose Doctson seems valid.  Considering that according to Jerry the one team that wanted to barter was the Seahawks.   

 

 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/05/01/nfl-draft-dallas-cowboys-war-room-jerry-jones-peter-king

The plan was to offer Dallas’s second-round and third-round picks, 34 and 67 overall, to teams in the late teens and early 20s—Indianapolis, Buffalo, the Jets, Houston—but then swap out the third-rounder for Dallas’s fourth-rounder, 101 overall, starting in the mid-20s. Cincinnati (24), Pittsburgh (25), Seattle (26), Green Bay (27) and Kansas City (28) all got called. Lukewarm responses, mostly. Buffalo (19) said no to the offer of the second and third. The Jets said no.

Seattle GM John Schneider wanted to keep talking.

[sportsnut]

Bruiser - I hope you're right. It would make me happier if I thought Scot got his guy. I would be more inclined to believe that if we raced to the podium to pick doctson and didn't make the strange trade back with Houston.

I wish teams released more info about draft day deliberations, like Dallas did in the MMQB article (although I question whether we even got the whole story there since MMQB didn't have anyone in the Dallas draft room during the draft). Bruce confirmed that the Skins considered multiple offers to trade back but didn't mention any specific deals. I assume that the teams we know were actively trying to trade up, Denver and Dallas, called every team, but that's only speculation.

Either way, we know we got Scot's best player available, so I'm confident doctson will be a stud.

[Skinsinparadise]

Bruiser - I hope you're right. It would make me happier if I thought Scot got his guy. I would be more inclined to believe that if we raced to the podium to pick doctson and didn't make the strange trade back with Houston.

 

 

If you watched Scot's interviews I think you'd be chill on the trade that went down.  I forgot which one it was but in one of them he just started laughing and nodding and suggesting look we knew Texans were unlikely going to take Doctson but he didn't want to say how he knew as if it would get him in trouble to reveal the secret.  Bruce sort of said the same thing with the caveat of that you never know they could have surprised us.

 

I personally wasn't shocked the Texans took Fuller.  A lot of the draft geeks were saying they wanted one of the speed threats (Fuller, Coleman) to go along with the big-bodied Hopkins. 

[TSO]

If you watched Scot's interviews I think you'd be chill on the trade that went down.  I forgot which one it was but in one of them he just started laughing and nodding and suggesting look we knew Texans were unlikely going to take Doctson but he didn't want to say how he knew as if it would get him in trouble to reveal the secret.  Bruce sort of said the same thing with the caveat of that you never know they could have surprised us.

 

I personally wasn't shocked the Texans took Fuller.  A lot of the draft geeks were saying they wanted one of the speed threats (Fuller, Coleman) to go along with the big-bodied Hopkins.

Yeah, I felt the same exact thing you did listening to those two interviews. That's what I was referring to here:

 

This is my take on it, honestly. I don't think they want to say it, but every time they're asked about how that trade came about, they kind of chuckle slyly or do something else that gives a subtle indication that they feel like they got one over on Houston. 

 ......................................................................they either told Houston they were taking Fuller or that some other team (likely the Vikings) was going to trade up for Fuller if they didn't first. Something like "yeah, the Vikings want to give us a 7th this year but we'll take your 6th next year so you get your guy". 

[nemocystem]

OK the homerism has taken hold here. Most predraft media predicted Doctson would go roughly around where he did and actually slightly lower. To say it you're amazed or it was a miracle that he was at 21/22 just doesn't cut the mustard. I always expected he'd go between 22-36.

Perhaps you should read the NFL Draft thread where i said it about him, Rankins, & Buckner several times to guys suggesting they would be good picks.

Just because your valuation was different doesn't mean it's correct. Doesn't mean mine was either.

Statistically speaking, you would be correct...but i'm fairly confident that a confluence of circumstances ranging from 2 top 5 talents falling out of the 1st round, & the teams wanting WRs ahead of us (mis?)placing a higher value on speed vs overall WR skills. My board clearly had Doctson as the #1 WR, & a top 15 talent...WELL BEFORE the Draft.

Homerism need not apply.

[Koolblue13]

Damn, would have been nice to have Dallas second and third rounder. Could have grabbed Bell and Martin maybe.