HeyHeyHey Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Brady and it's not even an argument. If he wins his 2nd superbowl it makes for a good debate, but at the end of the day Brady is better. Brady wins with nothing all the time, Manning always has unbelievable weapons around him to make him better. If Brady had the weapons the Colts had (Dallas Clark/Harrison/Wayne) he would have won 5 superbowls with that roster. Brady would be licking his chops if he had WR cores like Manning did. You do a disservice to the professional wideouts of NE. I'm pretty sure Edelman was wide open for a TD and Brady flat out missed yesterday. Let's not act like he's been surrounded with garbage his whole career. He probably has had the best o-line of the past decade+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveMason Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I do not recall Denver having a reputation for having all of these "weapons" before Peyton got there... I would say right now, Brady has the edge. But if Peyton wins the SB, then I'd have to give it to Peyton. The guy's gotten to three SBs with three different coaches. Two different teams. Downplay it all you want, but that is significant. You don't normally see QBs play at a consistently elite level with that much change around them. Would Brady be as good without Belichek? You could argue that would be, but we have no way of knowing. With Peyton, the question has been answered. He's elite no matter where he is or who's around him. His postseason record is the only thing going against him. A second SB win would do a lot to quell those criticisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuNiT21 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 You do a disservice to the professional wideouts of NE. I'm pretty sure Edelman was wide open for a TD and Brady flat out missed yesterday. Let's not act like he's been surrounded with garbage his whole career. He probably has had the best o-line of the past decade+. Thanks, you've made my point. His #1 WR is Julian Edelman.....let that sink in for a second. While you tell me not to act like he's surrounded by garbage but are you suggesting that Edelman is a #1 WR or a #2 for another team? And elite QB's make offensive lines, Olines don't make elite QB's. When we won the division you would of thought our Oline was the best in the biz, what happened this year? Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Brady all mask every Oline issue they have because they are good at dealing with weaknesses and getting rid of the ball....intelligence. But none of them are perfect every single time including missing Edelman on a wide open deep ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Everybody wants to define GOAT differently so it's pointless. But Manning is the most irreplaceable player in football. It's difficult to quantify the amount of success that should be attributed to Brady/Manning's surrounding teams during their primes -- does Marvin Harrison make Peyton or is it the other way around? What we do know is that Peyton showed up to a mediocre/bad Broncos team (please don't even start with the Tebow BS) and two years later they are the best offense in NFL history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ORAKPO98 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Peyton - 24 pro bowlers at skill positions Brady - 8 pro bowlers at skill positions Brady for sure. But Brady has had better overall defensive units throughout his career as opposed to Manning who had to try and outshoot other teams to advance in the playoffs. BTW, Tom Brady has played on a roster with 27 other pro bowl players, Peyton Manning, in three more seasons played, has played on a roster with 24 other pro bowl players. Patriots http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=2001&year_max=2013&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&league_id=&team_id=nwe&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_qb=Y&pos_is_rb=Y&pos_is_wr=Y&pos_is_te=Y&pos_is_rec=Y&pos_is_t=Y&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_ol=Y&pos_is_dt=Y&pos_is_de=Y&pos_is_dl=Y&pos_is_ilb=Y&pos_is_olb=Y&pos_is_lb=Y&pos_is_cb=Y&pos_is_s=Y&pos_is_db=Y&pos_is_k=Y&pos_is_p=Y&c1stat=pro_bowls&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pro_bowls&draft=0&draft_year_min=1936&draft_year_max=2013&type=&draft_round_min=0&draft_round_max=99&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&draft_pick_in_round=0&draft_league_id=&draft_team_id=&college_id=all&conference=any&draft_pos_is_qb=Y&draft_pos_is_rb=Y&draft_pos_is_wr=Y&draft_pos_is_te=Y&draft_pos_is_rec=Y&draft_pos_is_t=Y&draft_pos_is_g=Y&draft_pos_is_c=Y&draft_pos_is_ol=Y&draft_pos_is_dt=Y&draft_pos_is_de=Y&draft_pos_is_dl=Y&draft_pos_is_ilb=Y&draft_pos_is_olb=Y&draft_pos_is_lb=Y&draft_pos_is_cb=Y&draft_pos_is_s=Y&draft_pos_is_db=Y&draft_pos_is_k=Y&draft_pos_is_p=Y Colts http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=1998&year_max=2011&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&league_id=&team_id=clt&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_qb=Y&pos_is_rb=Y&pos_is_wr=Y&pos_is_te=Y&pos_is_rec=Y&pos_is_t=Y&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_ol=Y&pos_is_dt=Y&pos_is_de=Y&pos_is_dl=Y&pos_is_ilb=Y&pos_is_olb=Y&pos_is_lb=Y&pos_is_cb=Y&pos_is_s=Y&pos_is_db=Y&pos_is_k=Y&pos_is_p=Y&c1stat=pro_bowls&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pro_bowls&draft=0&draft_year_min=1936&draft_year_max=2013&type=&draft_round_min=0&draft_round_max=99&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&draft_pick_in_round=0&draft_league_id=&draft_team_id=&college_id=all&conference=any&draft_pos_is_qb=Y&draft_pos_is_rb=Y&draft_pos_is_wr=Y&draft_pos_is_te=Y&draft_pos_is_rec=Y&draft_pos_is_t=Y&draft_pos_is_g=Y&draft_pos_is_c=Y&draft_pos_is_ol=Y&draft_pos_is_dt=Y&draft_pos_is_de=Y&draft_pos_is_dl=Y&draft_pos_is_ilb=Y&draft_pos_is_olb=Y&draft_pos_is_lb=Y&draft_pos_is_cb=Y&draft_pos_is_s=Y&draft_pos_is_db=Y&draft_pos_is_k=Y&draft_pos_is_p=Y Broncos http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=2012&year_max=2013&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&league_id=&team_id=den&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_qb=Y&pos_is_rb=Y&pos_is_wr=Y&pos_is_te=Y&pos_is_rec=Y&pos_is_t=Y&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_ol=Y&pos_is_dt=Y&pos_is_de=Y&pos_is_dl=Y&pos_is_ilb=Y&pos_is_olb=Y&pos_is_lb=Y&pos_is_cb=Y&pos_is_s=Y&pos_is_db=Y&pos_is_k=Y&pos_is_p=Y&c1stat=pro_bowls&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pro_bowls&draft=0&draft_year_min=1936&draft_year_max=2013&type=&draft_round_min=0&draft_round_max=99&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&draft_pick_in_round=0&draft_league_id=&draft_team_id=&college_id=all&conference=any&draft_pos_is_qb=Y&draft_pos_is_rb=Y&draft_pos_is_wr=Y&draft_pos_is_te=Y&draft_pos_is_rec=Y&draft_pos_is_t=Y&draft_pos_is_g=Y&draft_pos_is_c=Y&draft_pos_is_ol=Y&draft_pos_is_dt=Y&draft_pos_is_de=Y&draft_pos_is_dl=Y&draft_pos_is_ilb=Y&draft_pos_is_olb=Y&draft_pos_is_lb=Y&draft_pos_is_cb=Y&draft_pos_is_s=Y&draft_pos_is_db=Y&draft_pos_is_k=Y&draft_pos_is_p=Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ORAKPO98 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 I do not recall Denver having a reputation for having all of these "weapons" before Peyton got there... I would say right now, Brady has the edge. But if Peyton wins the SB, then I'd have to give it to Peyton. The guy's gotten to three SBs with three different coaches. Two different teams. Downplay it all you want, but that is significant. You don't normally see QBs play at a consistently elite level with that much change around them. Would Brady be as good without Belichek? You could argue that would be, but we have no way of knowing. With Peyton, the question has been answered. He's elite no matter where he is or who's around him. His postseason record is the only thing going against him. A second SB win would do a lot to quell those criticisms. Very true, Belicheat is considered by many as the greatest head coach of all time, there's a good chance Brady does not have 3 rings without playing for Belicheat. Everybody wants to define GOAT differently so it's pointless. But Manning is the most irreplaceable player in football. It's difficult to quantify the amount of success that should be attributed to Brady/Manning's surrounding teams during their primes -- does Marvin Harrison make Peyton or is it the other way around? What we do know is that Peyton showed up to a mediocre/bad Broncos team (please don't even start with the Tebow BS) and two years later they are the best offense in NFL history. True, without Tom, the Patriots went 11-5 in 2008, but without Peyton, the Colts went 2-14. It seems like Peyton is the more valuable player to his team, that one is for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ORAKPO98 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Brady and it's not even an argument. If he wins his 2nd superbowl it makes for a good debate, but at the end of the day Brady is better. Brady wins with nothing all the time, Manning always has unbelievable weapons around him to make him better. If Brady had the weapons the Colts had (Dallas Clark/Harrison/Wayne) he would have won 5 superbowls with that roster. Brady would be licking his chops if he had WR cores like Manning did. If Brady wins with nothing all the time. and Manning has world beaters surrounding him, then why has Brady played with 27 other pro bowl players, and Manning only 24 in 3 more seasons played? Poor Brady has never had any weapons, I guess Randy Moss, Rob Gronkowski, Wes Welker, Aaron Hernandez, Deion Branch, Julian Edleman (over 1,000 yds. this season), Danny Amendola, Corey Dillion, etc., all sucked? Manning would be licking his chops to play with the likes of Randy Moss and Rob Gronkowski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 You do a disservice to the professional wideouts of NE. I'm pretty sure Edelman was wide open for a TD and Brady flat out missed yesterday. Let's not act like he's been surrounded with garbage his whole career. He probably has had the best o-line of the past decade+.He was referring to skill players. And he's 100% accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ORAKPO98 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Thanks, you've made my point. His #1 WR is Julian Edelman.....let that sink in for a second. While you tell me not to act like he's surrounded by garbage but are you suggesting that Edelman is a #1 WR or a #2 for another team? And elite QB's make offensive lines, Olines don't make elite QB's. When we won the division you would of thought our Oline was the best in the biz, what happened this year? Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Brady all mask every Oline issue they have because they are good at dealing with weaknesses and getting rid of the ball....intelligence. But none of them are perfect every single time including missing Edelman on a wide open deep ball. Brady missed 3 big thows yesterday that could have changed the game, inluding that throw to Edleman and then 2 more deep bombs down the sidleline. Hopefully Brady will recieve flak for playing poorly yesterday, heaven knows Manning would have had he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 True, without Tom, the Patriots went 11-5 in 2008, but without Peyton, the Colts went 2-14. It seems like Peyton is the more valuable player to his team, that one is for sure.You conveniently leave out the fact that NE went 18-1 the year before. Smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ORAKPO98 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 He was referring to skill players. And he's 100% accurate. Skill players aren't as important as trench players when building a championship caliber team, and Brady has played with better trench players, (O-line, D-line) than Manning has. And Brady has played with several quality skill players throughout his career as I posted examples in a prior post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Lol at the guy that said Peyton inherited a mediocre Broncos team. Skill players aren't as important as trench players when building a championship caliber team, and Brady has played with better trench players, (O-line, D-line) than Manning has. And Brady has played with several quality skill players throughout his career as I posted examples in a prior post.Please. The skill players that Manning has had are FAR superior to Brady's. Stop with this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ORAKPO98 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 You conveniently leave out the fact that NE went 18-1 the year before. Smh The Colts went 16-3 two prior years to Manning missing his season, whats your point? Both have made their teams better yes, but Manning is better and is the number one reason his team wins football games, no matter what team, or who he has at head coach, he wins, and he basically calls the plays in doing so. Brady plays for arguably the greatest head coach ever, who is very good at scheming up things to get wins, even without Brady. Manning > Brady Manning just had the greatest season ever by any quarterback in route to winning his 5th MVP and most likely second Super Bowl ring. GOAT status he is achieving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 ^^ Pay attention. I said IF Manning wins another he could go down as the better QB. As of now? No. Manning has an 11-11 postseason record. As of this moment, he's not better than Brady or Montana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ORAKPO98 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Lol at the guy that said Peyton inherited a mediocre Broncos team. Please. The skill players that Manning has had are FAR superior to Brady's. Stop with this nonsense. So it's nonsense to think that Brady has played with likewise great players at skill positions? Randy Moss, arguably the greatest WR of all time, Rob Gronkowski, who looks like he may go down as the greatest TE of all time if he can stay healthy, Wes Welker, Julian Edleman, and others that I pointed out prior, that is not nonsense my friend. Some said it was a HUGE mistake for Manning to have signed with the Broncos, saying they were not a good team and not ready to win right away, yet Manning turns that team around and two years later turns them into the GREATEST offensive team of all time! WOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Dude Gronk wasnt himself in the last SB and didn't even play in these playoffs lol And lol at you thinking Denver wasnt a talented team when PM got there. TEBOW won a playoff game with LESS talent around him than what PM has now lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Brady. Brady has been to 5 Superbowls, winning 3 of them. Manning will now have been to 3 superbowls and at best he can win 2 Superbowls. Brady will have been to more Superbowls and won more Superbowls than Manning. So you're saying football is an individual sport? Sorry, it takes a team to win a championship. What is the obsession of championships = everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 So you're saying football is an individual sport? Sorry, it takes a team to win a championship. What is the obsession of championships = everything?They matter when deciding the GOAT. That's why no one thinks Marino is the best. Brady is 18-8 with 3 SBs. Manning 11-11 with 1. Do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ORAKPO98 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 ^^ Pay attention. I said IF Manning wins another he could go down as the better QB. As of now? No. Manning has an 11-11 postseason record. As of this moment, he's not better than Brady or Montana. Manning is better than Brady, and I would think he will be considered better than Montana after retirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Manning is better than Brady, and I would think he will be considered better than Montana after retirement.You keep saying that, but just because you say it, doesn't make it true.I'm pulling for Denver, but if he doesn't get another ring, this conversation is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ORAKPO98 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 They matter when deciding the GOAT. That's why no one thinks Marino is the best. Brady is 18-8 with 3 SBs. Manning 11-11 with 1. Do the math. Sorry bud but like the man said, it takes a TEAM to win a Super Bowl, but a GREAT player to win awards such as MVP, which Manning has won a leauge leading 5 times. ( I counted this season in which he should be a unanimous decision.) You keep saying that, but just because you say it, doesn't make it true. I'm pulling for Denver, but if he doesn't get another ring, this conversation is over. You keep saying Brady is better, but just because you say it doesn't make it true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 You can't possibly be the GOAT with a 11-11 postseason record. You can't be the G.O.A.T. if you lose to two 9-7 teams in the Super Bowl. Two Eli Manning-led teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Sorry bud but like the man said, it takes a TEAM to win a Super Bowl, but a GREAT player to win awards such as MVP, which Manning has won a leauge leading 5 times. ( I counted this season in which he should be a unanimous decision.)IManning is without a doubt the greatest regular season QB of all time. Just not THE greatest of all time. Again, the man has an 11-11 postseason record and threw a pick 6 to cost his team a shot at a SB. Favre won a lot of MVPs, too, yet no one considers him the best. MVPs are only part of the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 They matter when deciding the GOAT. That's why no one thinks Marino is the best. Brady is 18-8 with 3 SBs. Manning 11-11 with 1. Do the math. Pays to have Bill Belichick as your coach. Also, Marino is arguably the best pure passer in NFL history and dragged the Dolphins by himself to the Super Bowl. His '84 season is still the best ever by a QB in the modern era when you take into consideration the era, the talent around him and the fact that he was only a 2nd year QB. 48 TD's in 1984 >>> 55 in Goodell's circus act NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 You can't be the G.O.A.T. if you lose to two 9-7 teams in the Super Bowl. Two Eli Manning-led teams.You can if you win 3 other SBs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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