2014 Comprehensive Nfl Draft Database

[Laxpunk2006]

This draft is loaded in talent.....I'd be up for trading Cousins if we can get a 2nd or a 3rd and an additional pick. Then picking up a veteran to back up rg3.

 

I wonder if Josh Johnson is a potential trade target.  If we could trade Kirk Cousins for a second/third/whathaveyou we would be creating a hole at QB2.  Instead of drafting another developmental player what about attempting to make a deal for Josh Johnson?  

 

He's a guy we've had interest in the past.  He has some similar traits to RGIII as far as the athleticism and he has experience in Gruden's system.  With Gruden gone he is less valuable to Cincinnati and it's within the realm of possibility that he could be acquired for a late round pick.

[Dukes and Skins]

I'm sold on Morgan Moses as a 3rd - 4th round pick. Maybe is the Dane Brugler hyping him up but for a possible 4th round pick, he can contribute greatly to this team.

 

Maybe Aaron Donald at 34th and Morgan Moses in 4th round. Or Zack Martin/Taylor Lewan at 34th and Justin Ellis in 4th or 5th round.

 

I have a 3rd rounder on Moses, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he ends up going earlier 

[darrelgreenie]

I'm sold on Morgan Moses as a 3rd - 4th round pick. Maybe is the Dane Brugler hyping him up but for a possible 4th round pick, he can contribute greatly to this team.

 

Maybe Aaron Donald at 34th and Morgan Moses in 4th round. Or Zack Martin/Taylor Lewan at 34th and Justin Ellis in 4th or 5th round.

I have a 3rd rounder on Moses, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he ends up going earlier

My goto sites have Morgan Moses as 1-2 round pick. But it is early in the draft process.

He had a solid senior bowl, the NFLN guys think he might be able to play LT. If he's there at 34 I would consider it good fortune.

[Dukes and Skins]

Dont disagree with those ranking him there as its their prerogative, just my own personal opinion is a 3rd rounder for Moses. Could take him in the mid to late 2nd without much fret, but would be against him at 34 

[darrelgreenie]

Dont disagree with those ranking him there as its their prerogative, just my own personal opinion is a 3rd rounder for Moses. Could take him in the mid to late 2nd without much fret, but would be against him at 34

I tend not to get too hung up on ranking players based on what round I think they'll go because to its fluid imo. But ranking the prospects by position is more meaningful to me. If you have a ranking for OT/OL I would be curious to know who is ahead/behind him?

[Dukes and Skins]

I tend not to get too hung up on ranking players based on what round I think they'll go because to its fluid imo. But ranking the prospects by position is more meaningful to me. If you have a ranking for OT/OL I would be curious to know who is ahead/behind him?

 

My current top 5 of OT's is this(also included 6-8 for reference of where Moses is for me)

 

1. Jake Matthews

2. Greg Robinson

3. Zack Martin

4. Taylor Lewan

5. Tiny Richardson

6. Cyrus Kouandijo

7. Joel Bitonio

8. Morgan Moses

 

Moses is 8th for me

[Thekyle1591]

This is your breakdown? Nevermind then. Lol, hyperbole and exxagerration don't make a game breakdown.

Weren't you the guy who said he didn't breakdown DB's? Siting "plus plays" and "minus plays" without elaborating what exactly that means doesn't seem to make a game breakdown to me. 

Smith is 33 next year, coming off a sprained knee and a free agent.  They were also 3rd to last in sacks.  I'd say they have a bit of a hole there. 

 

This was a team whose talent isn't as bad as its record.  I fully expect them to rebound in a big way next year even without a new qb, though I think Keenum was good enough to warrant a 2nd go at it.  Healthy runningbacks, healthy Cushing, 2nd year for Hopkins and a revamped front 7 and they are right back to where they were 2 years ago.

Andre Johnson is 30+ and their oline is really bad. Probably worse than ours..

[Thekyle1591]

My current top 5 of OT's is this(also included 6-8 for reference of where Moses is for me)

 

1. Jake Matthews

2. Greg Robinson

3. Zack Martin

4. Taylor Lewan

5. Tiny Richardson

6. Cyrus Kouandijo

7. Joel Bitonio

8. Morgan Moses

 

Moses is 8th for me

Seems about right to me. I might switch Lewan and Martin. Lewan's stock dropped for some reason but he is still a first rounder to me. Moses is pretty damn impressive and will end up going in the 2nd. You can count on someone falling in love with his tape. 

[Dukes and Skins]

One note with Martin on that list. I know I've mentioned he could be an all pro type OG, but I still think he's one of the best OT's in this class as well. Kind of a jack of all trades OT that teams will love 

[Laron Burgundy]

Weren't you the guy who said he didn't breakdown DB's? 

Andre Johnson is 30+ and their oline is really bad. Probably worse than ours..

 

They were 17th in sacks allowed while 6th in pass attempts.  They also were on their 3rd and 4th string rb's, so I wouldn't take their run game too terribly against them, even though they still did well.  Their o line has been one of the best in the league for years.  And Hopkins is the clear replacement for Johnson.  Certainly they could use another up-and-comer (though going in to 2014 they can feel pretty comfy with a wr combo that is likely among top 5 in the league).  They could use an upgrade at tight end, but again, this was more just a nightmare season than this team actually being a talent poor team.

 

I mean, this isn't a Texans thread so this is off topic, but I don't know how their fans could complain about that draft.  Smith lines up at 3 tech.  When you can draft the best blindside passrusher prospect in a decade AND one of the top 3 tech prospects to replace the older guy you just lost?  They could make it deep into the playoffs in a way similar to the giants recently, just getting after the passer and running the ball.

[Thekyle1591]

They were 17th in sacks allowed while 6th in pass attempts.  They also were on their 3rd and 4th string rb's, so I wouldn't take their run game too terribly against them, even though they still did well.  Their o line has been one of the best in the league for years.  And Hopkins is the clear replacement for Johnson.  Certainly they could use another up-and-comer (though going in to 2014 they can feel pretty comfy with a wr combo that is likely among top 5 in the league).  They could use an upgrade at tight end, but again, this was more just a nightmare season than this team actually being a talent poor team.

 

I mean, this isn't a Texans thread so this is off topic, but I don't know how their fans could complain about that draft.  Smith lines up at 3 tech.  When you can draft the best blindside passrusher prospect in a decade AND one of the top 3 tech prospects to replace the older guy you just lost?  They could make it deep into the playoffs in a way similar to the giants recently, just getting after the passer and running the ball.

Anyway you look at it, you are not the worst team in the NFL without having alot of holes. Many of the holes they have are many of the holes we also have. Those being: RT, LG, FS, CB, ILB and WR. 

[darrelgreenie]

Weren't you the guy who said he didn't breakdown DB's? Siting "plus plays" and "minus plays" without elaborating what exactly that means doesn't seem to make a game breakdown to me.

Nope never once said I don't breakdown DBs. In fact SAFs are the only position I broke down last year. Usually I do QBs. And if you ask people in this forum or look them up my QBs breakdowns (a closer look series) were pretty thorough. So, you're wrong there.

Second, I asked if you wanted me to post my breakdowns. No reply. And I didn't think it would be approriate to spam the thread with my entire breakdown of 4 SAFs games so I condensed with just the stats and a game sum.

In typical plus/minus grade fashion. So as opposed to saying 'player X played terrible' I just show you how I graded them out: total plays, plus plays, minus plays. If you need me to explain what constitues a plus or minus play I can do that for you. Here's a hint (minus plays for SAF are often missed tackles).

Either way it provides more context then hyperbole like- 'worst game I've ever seen from a SAF' (lol that the game included that same DB returning a INT for a TD)

I figured this being a draft thread and all and you seemingly spouting such strong opinions would actually I don't know want to discuss game tape in detail or at least flesh out your opinion more.

Obviously I figured wrong.

But, hey we're all good here.

No need to discuss any further.

-Cheers

[Laron Burgundy]

Anyway you look at it, you are not the worst team in the NFL without having alot of holes. Many of the holes they have are many of the holes we also have. Those being: RT, LG, FS, CB, ILB and WR. 

 

You also don't go from 12 wins to 2 in one year while only losing two starters in fa and are suddenly the worst team in the league with a roster full of holes.  They had bad injuries this year, and maybe they gave up on the season, don't know, but they're better than their record and it will probably be annoying next year to hear all the stories about the worst team in the league making the playoffs in one year with a new coach.

[darrelgreenie]

My current top 5 of OT's is this(also included 6-8 for reference of where Moses is for me)

 

1. Jake Matthews

2. Greg Robinson

3. Zack Martin

4. Taylor Lewan

5. Tiny Richardson

6. Cyrus Kouandijo

7. Joel Bitonio

8. Morgan Moses

 

Moses is 8th for me

What is your opinion of the guys on that list as day 1 starters weighed against Tyler Polumbus?

Where do you think it changes from say sure fire starter to could challenge in season to could challenge next year?

I would consider all the OTs on your list as day 1 starters over Tyler. (Keeping in mind I don't think Tyler is a bad as most people think)

[Dukes and Skins]

What is your opinion of the guys on that list as day 1 starters weighed against Tyler Polumbus?

Where do you think it changes from say sure fire starter to could challenge in season to could challenge next year?

I would consider all the OTs on your list as day 1 starters over Tyler. (Keeping in mind I don't think Tyler is a bad as most people think)

 

They are all day one starters for me as well 

[darrelgreenie]

They are all day one starters for me as well

Heck I even think Jack Mewhort could give Tyler a run for his money.

You think Jack could kick inside?

[Dukes and Skins]

Heck I even think Jack Mewhort could give Tyler a run for his money. You think he could kick inside and play RG?

 

Mewhort or Tyler? I have a feeling that Mewhort makes a lot of sense as an OG 

[darrelgreenie]

Mewhort or Tyler? I have a feeling that Mewhort makes a lot of sense as an OG

If we draft a mid/late round OT I hope they can kick inside and play OG. In the unlikely event the staff likes Tyler to start the season at RT more then the drafted RT it would be nice to have a rook that can kick inside. (until Grudes realizes that Tyler is just *meh*)

[Going Commando]

Anyone have any faith in Jim Haslett or Bruce Allen?

[RemoveSnyder]

[darrelgreenie]

Anyone have any faith in Jim Haslett or Bruce Allen?

Faith? No.

Clean slate? Yes.

 

I don't think Haslett is anything special as a DC. But I don't think most coordinators are special. I think most coach to the level of their talent and assembled coacing staff. I think the coaching staff under Haslett has improved with K.O and Baker. And with all the craziness last year with the black hand of Mike Shanahan meddling its hard to know how much/how little effect that had on the defense.

 

I am tepid about Bruce Allen as a GM but bullish on AJ Smith, although I don't know his role I think he is a good GM/talent scout.

[Going Commando]

Faith? No.

Clean slate? Yes.

 

I don't think Haslett is anything special as a DC. But I don't think most coordinators are special. I think most coach to the level of their talent and assembled coacing staff. I think the coaching staff under Haslett has improved with K.O and Baker. And with all the craziness last year with the black hand of Mike Shanahan meddling its hard to know how much/how little effect that had on the defense.

 

I am tepid about Bruce Allen as a GM but bullish on AJ Smith, although I don't know his role I think he is a good GM/talent scout.

I think that's about where I'm at too. I feel like I don't really have any illusions about Allen and Haslett any more. But I agree with you that there are very few coordinators that separate themselves from their peers. In general, they're the best at what they do in the world. Only a small few are then uniquely excellent. I think almost all of it really comes down to leadership ability anyway. Being able to motivate players and get them to perform as a group. Every group of players is going to be different too. I read Nate Jackson's account of playing for Eric Mangini and Mike Shanahan, and to him, Mike Shanahan was the one that did it the right way. Clearly his passive aggressive BS wasn't the right fit for us.

This is a tangent but I think a lot of people live in a fantasy land about coaches and players being like chess pieces, fixed abilities and performances, always fully motivated if they're professional. I think that performance levels always vary and that motivating players is one of the hardest things to do. The game is pretty horrifying at the NFL level. We take its violence for granted IMO. We also have our perceptions of competitiveness and professionalism colored by watching the very best and most talented players like RGIII--who are clearly something different than the average NFL player. They're something special, they approach the game with fanatical competitiveness and drive. I bet most players mostly approach it like any job, trying to perform on the field and not get on the wrong side of their coaches, trying to cling to a team, trying to cling to the game, trying to deal with their most pressing injuries and manage their day to day pain.

I don't know if fans realize that all NFL players are on one year contracts. If that. Peyton Manning got cut after a year missed with health problems. Peyton freaking Manning. It's a pretty horrible sport, made attractive only because the money is so good.

Anyway, I don't think Haslett is great but I think he can suffice if the team is really good. I worry about his comfort level coaching the 34 base though.

I like Jay Gruden so far, but we don't really know how good he is yet.

What has me hopeful that this time will be different is that I really believe in some of the players: RGIII, Trent, Morris, Garcon, Orakpo, & Kerrigan.

And also I'm actually a little encouraged that Dan Snyder has matured as an owner. And the evidence for that was in keeping Allen in place and making a move for stability. I think he removed the most serious problem surgically instead of cutting the whole head off and going full reboot. Couldn't keep living with the Shanahan tumor. But the way to get good is generally through stability.

[Dukes and Skins]

If we draft a mid/late round OT I hope they can kick inside and play OG. In the unlikely event the staff likes Tyler to start the season at RT more then the drafted RT it would be nice to have a rook that can kick inside. (until Grudes realizes that Tyler is just *meh*)

 

Still holding out hope on LeRib as an OG. Mewhort would make sense as an interior OL IMO and I would really enjoy Morgan Moses here as the RT 

[darrelgreenie]

...Anyway, I don't think Haslett is great but I think he can suffice if the team is really good. I worry about his comfort level coaching the 34 base though.

I like Jay Gruden so far, but we don't really know how good he is yet.

What has me hopeful that this time will be different is that I really believe in some of the players: RGIII, Trent, Morris, Garcon, Orakpo, & Kerrigan.

Although I give everyone a clean slate I have to say that I believe we missed an opportunity to really get some people on staff that know how to call a 34. I like the staff the Titans put together for example: Ray Horton and Lou Spanos? Good gets.

I also would have liked a little more experience on the offensive coaching staff.

But again giving them all clean slates.

 

The best thing for Haslett is get as much talent for the front 7 as possible. Help him win up front at the point of attack and the defense/Haslett will improve.

 

If things go well I think Griffin will put up very good passing numbers and the rushing game will decrease but still be productive.

[darrelgreenie]

Still holding out hope on LeRib as an OG. Mewhort would make sense as an interior OL IMO and I would really enjoy Morgan Moses here as the RT 

I wouldn't draft Mewhort as an OG ahead of Hurt, Gettis or LeRib I would only play him there in the unlikely event that the staff doesn't view him as an immediate upgrade over Tyler. Ideally I want to provide our OGs a chance to step up as starters.  My plan for OG is to bring in a solid starting caliber veteran via FA and have our young guys battle it our with them in an open competition.

 

I like MM too.