Why "the cushion" is a great idea...

[mitchellvii]

As far as I can tell, the Redskins are the only team in the NFL which regularly gives opposing receivers a 10 to 15 yard cushion on 3rd and short.  To the naked eye it would appear this could not possibly work but I assume the Defensive Coaches of the Skins are smarter than me.

 

I watch other teams and it seems their corners are up jamming receivers right off the line.

 

Can a better football person than I explain why this works?  If I knew maybe I would stop throwing my shoe at the TV and screaming "Cover him!".

[MVP]

It's a cover 2 or cover 3. The outside linebackers are responsible for the quick slants.

[mitchellvii]

Oh ok, but who handles the times when the receiver runs down 5 yards, turn around and catches the easy first down? I just never see anyone else doing this.  Does it work for us?  How are our corners ranked on 3rd down compared to the league?

[FunBunch7]

IMO it does NOT work.  Think goal line... the opponent has a 3rd and goal from the 2... if we stand back 8-10 yards off, they'll do a WR screen and game over.  I have grey hairs the last 5 yrs watching this garbage defensive scheme.  It seems to me to be about fear of getting beat deep, but I just can't for the life of me figure out why they don't play to the situation.

 

Confuses the heck out of me but like the OP, I guess the coaches know more than me... I've only been watching football for 30 yrs.

 

HTTR

[Laron Burgundy]

We are horrible on 3rd down, so I'd say it isn't working. It may be that we do that to protect our safeties though, and something we may abandon when we have better safeties.

[Dirt]

I think our scheme depends more on linebackers to stop those routes.  It's part of disguising coverage's, which we love to do.  It requires a lot of execution, and skill, so I'm not sure how I feel about our defense doing it anyway if they're not doing it in practices, or, um, games.

[elkabong82]

Well the more of it you have, the more pushing you can do

[skinsmarydu]

Can a better football person than I explain why this works?  If I knew maybe I would stop throwing my shoe at the TV and screaming "Cover him!".

 I cannot...but I can recommend throwing Styrofoam bricks...

Hail!

 

[MartinC]

Standard cushion in man coverage is 2-3 yards in zone it's 8-10 yards. That cushion is one of the keys a QB will look for per snap in reading coverage so sometimes defenses will give a false read by lining a corner up deeper in man to help disguise a blitz or some kind of man coverage.

Also we do play quite a bit of 3 deep coverage in which the corners play deep outside with a middle safety and the linebackers and second safety are responsible for the short zones.

I understand the frustration of the OP though - I personally hate seeing an 8-10 yard cushion on 3rd and 5 or less especially when we have some kind of blitz which dictates the QB gets the ball out quickly. Sometimes though giving up a first down beats the heck out of a press corner being beaten at the line and giving up a 60 yard TD.

[mitchellvii]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, but don't we get burned deep constantly? Also, if the corner is 10 yards deep and the receiver is going long, doesn't that mean the receiver will be going full speed by the time he passes the corner who is standing there? How does this make getting burned deep any less likely than chucking a receiver off the line? Maybe this is why we usually killed for big gainers on 3rd down when we blitz? I'll never forget the game where on a 3rd and goal at the 2 our corners were actually standing in the back of the endzone! The receiver stepped over the line turned and caught the score uncontested. I was speechless (which for me says a lot). Maybe one reason is the fact our corners are the size of teenage boys compared to hulking 6'6" receivers. Do we intentionally draft the smallest players we can find?

[MartinC]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, but don't we get burned deep constantly? Also, if the corner is 10 yards deep and the receiver is going long, doesn't that mean the receiver will be going full speed by the time he passes the corner who is standing there? How does this make getting burned deep any less likely than chucking a receiver off the line? Maybe this is why we usually killed for big gainers on 3rd down when we blitz?

The DB will back peddle to maintain that cushion as long as they can and then 'flip their hips' to run with the receiver when their cushion is being reduced and they decide the receiver is going deep. When you hear a scout talking about a DB having stiff hips for a corner and therefore being a safety prospect that's what they are talking about - the transition from back peddle to turn and run with a receiver is a critical part of a DBs skill set. By he way as a receiver running a hook, square or some kind of comeback route eating that cushion and getting the DB to commit to turn their hips is the key they look for in making their cut to get separation.

A good corner will get beat deep much less with a cushion than in press but you will still get beat and that's were safety help comes in .....

I'll never forget the game where on a 3rd and goal at the 2 our corners were actually standing in the back of the endzone! The receiver stepped over the line turned and caught the score uncontested. I was speechless (which for me says a lot).

Don't recall that specifically but I'm sure I was shouting the same things you were ....

Maybe one reason is the fact our corners are the size of small teenage boys.

This is where Amerson is such an interesting prospect for us at corner. He has size and speed and long arms - coaches/scouts talk about 'length'. That size will help him match up with some of the bigger receivers we see and also allow him more radius to defend passes.

[RandyHolt]

The one that kills me is near the goal line and the corner standing too deep in the endzone. 

 

I think finesse corners that struggle in press / bump and run force a DC's hand though. Perhaps we are trying to bait the QB - the corner is moving up quick. But we never get the pick 6. 

 

We show too much respect to run of the mill WRs. Sure true deep threats it may be wise to play off on 3rd and short (TAS). But the fact is many WR are soft and can be beaten physically at the line and with a solid pass rush, think the risk is minimized on TAS since we are playing the run / rushing the backfield anyways. 

 

Its kind of laughable to think that our OLB's are covering that 3rd and short pass though. Yes Kerrigan does bat some balls around but are playing the run on 3rd and short, I believe. 

 

Haslet started dialing up the aggressiveness last season and hopefully he doesn't wait again until we are facing elimination to try it again. 

[MartinC]

Its kind of laughable to think that our OLB's are covering that 3rd and short pass though. Yes Kerrigan does bat some balls around but are playing the run on 3rd and short, I believe.

Haslet started dialing up the aggressiveness last season and hopefully he doesn't wait again until we are facing elimination to try it again.

We need to differentiate here between 3rd and short (2 yards or less I would say) which is a running down and 3rd and short (2 to 4 yards to go let's say) which is a passing down. Heck for many teams 3rd and 2 is a passing down now.

Called coverages and linebacker responsibilities will vary a lot between the two.

[mitchellvii]

I appreciate all of the knowledgeable feedback from our football pros here.  I am just a dumb fan who gets pissed when I see something I can't understand.

 

Maybe we just don't have the personnel to make this work?  It seems last year we were getting beat deep for TD's on a pretty regular basis. When a defense is designed specifically to reduce the deep threat and the result is constantly giving up the deep threat maybe it's time to re-evaluate?

 

How is our pass defense rated in the NFL? If it is highly rated maybe it all averages out for the good even though it seems crazy on a case by case basis.  Also, if this is a great defense, why don't I see other teams doing it?  Can someone name a top 5 defense that uses this scheme?  What are they doing differently? Just better personnel? Different twists?

[darrelgreenie]

The basic coverages you are talking about is Cover 3. I don't want to preach too much so i'll give me quick thoughts then post diagrams that include breakdowns of Cover 3 assignments.

 

Cover 3 is one of the more popular defensive looks for 34 teams the Steelers and other LeBeau variants have run this defense and run it quite effectively for years.

 

Its a balanced defense Run and Pass.

 

Its easy to switch roles on defense which makes it easy to disguise blitz looks.

 

The defense is not designed to stop certain routes. For those shorter routes the aim is to force a short throw and rally to make the tackle. The defense is more predicated on pressure rather then coverage for the shorter routes.

 

 

Cover 3

 

 

[skins island connection]

I appreciate all of the knowledgeable feedback from our football pros here.  I am just a dumb fan who gets pissed when I see something I can't understand.

 

Maybe we just don't have the personnel to make this work?  It seems last year we were getting beat deep for TD's on a pretty regular basis. When a defense is designed specifically to reduce the deep threat and the result is constantly giving up the deep threat maybe it's time to re-evaluate?

 

How is our pass defense rated in the NFL? If it is highly rated maybe it all averages out for the good even though it seems crazy on a case by case basis.  Also, if this is a great defense, why don't I see other teams doing it?  Can someone name a top 5 defense that uses this scheme?  What are they doing differently? Just better personnel? Different twists?

 

Well, something that hasn't been touched on yet, and that is discipline.

You hear announcers commenting on a player 'staring in the backfield', as a receiver runs by. At times a safety or CB

simply gets caught up in the moment and peeks in the backfield a split second too long, and reaction time also plays a role.

Of course, there are cases where bad tackling happens; a CB taking a bad angle at a speedy receiver, or trying to tackle a

big physical receiver from the shoulders, which never works but fun to watch them spin off. That burns my ass more than anything.

 

Lets all hope this will be a non-issue this year, because if it does continue, there will be alot of people losing their hair

by the handfuls...

[darrelgreenie]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, but don't we get burned deep constantly?

Define constantly. Also Cover 3 is just one of the coverages we use. There is also Cover 1 which looks alot like Cover 3 except the DBs are playing man-to-man not zone. Which is to say that: when we get beat deep we cannot assume it was Cover 3.

 

Also, if the corner is 10 yards deep and the receiver is going long, doesn't that mean the receiver will be going full speed by the time he passes the corner who is standing there? How does this make getting burned deep any less likely than chucking a receiver off the line?

The CB is reading the WR and should not be standing flat-footed to WR running a vertical route.

 

Maybe this is why we usually killed for big gainers on 3rd down when we blitz?

Define usually? Typically when we 'blitz' we're not even in Cover 3 because Cover 3 only rushes 4 defenders a 'blitz' is more then 4 rushers.

 

I'll never forget the game where on a 3rd and goal at the 2 our corners were actually standing in the back of the endzone!

I don't recall our CBs ever standing in the back of the endzone. But, like the diagram shows the LBs play a big role in defender some routes by standing in the passing window between the WR and the QB. Think of Rob Jackson Interceptions last  year:

 

[mitchellvii]

Thanks darrelgreenie.  Interesting.  But that still doesn't explain the 10 yard drop on a crucial 3rd and 4 stop.  Rallying to make the tackle after they have the first down seems kind of pointless.

 

This does seem to explain why we can stop a team so effectively on first and second down only to give up the 1st on 3rd down pretty regulary.  Maybe this defense works very well on early downs but not so well on 3rd?

 

** Edit:

 

BTW, my comments are just my perspective.  As I said, just a fan.  Don't know much about football.  No matter how it seems to me, if it is working let's stay with it by all means, but do you think in our case it is working?  Maybe we should stick with that on 1st and 2nd down but cover tighter on 3rd or goal line situations?

[MartinC]

The basic coverages you are talking about is Cover 3. I don't want to preach too much so i'll give me quick thoughts then post diagrams that include breakdowns of Cover 3 assignments.

 

The defense is not designed to stop certain routes. For those shorter routes the aim is to force a short throw and rally to make the tackle. The defense is more predicated on pressure rather then coverage for the shorter routes]

Right and nice break down. That's the 3 deep I was talking about earlier. I like Cover 3 on first and second downs and 3rd and long but I'm not a fan of it on 3rd and medium or short.

Thanks darrelgreenie.  Interesting.  But that still doesn't explain the 10 yard drop on a crucial 3rd and 4 stop.  Rallying to make the tackle after they have the first down seems kind of pointless.

 

This does seem to explain why we can stop a team so effectively on first and second down only to give up the 1st on 3rd down pretty regulary.  Maybe this defense works very well on early downs but not so well on 3rd?

But then we are not always in Cover 3 on third down - I don't know what the break down is but I would be surprised if we ran a lot of Cover 3 in goaline of 3rd and short or medium for example.

[darrelgreenie]

I know we use Cover 3 sometimes on 3rd and short because I've seen it too, but I don't think we use Cover 3 zone very often in third and short.

[Laron Burgundy]

And this could very well all be personnel deficiencies over scheme deficiencies. Our corners are small and our safeties get beat easily, doesn't make sense to play press coverage in that situation. I'd like to hope amerson could change that, but truth be told he didn't really press in college. He played with large cushions. Really our pass defense was all around atrocious, changing the cushion won't stop our linebackers giving free reign to tight ends or our safeties being out of position.

[mitchellvii]

And this could very well all be personnel deficiencies over scheme deficiencies. Our corners are small and our safeties get beat easily, doesn't make sense to play press coverage in that situation. I'd like to hope amerson could change that, but truth be told he didn't really press in college. He played with large cushions. Really our pass defense was all around atrocious, changing the cushion won't stop our linebackers giving free reign to tight ends or our safeties being out of position.

 

Yep, this is one reason I never feel comfortable even with a 21 point lead in the 3rd quarter.  With our corners and safeties no team is out of it against us ever.

 

But honestly, the thing that grinds me the most is when we only have to stop someone on 4th and 21 to win the game, we do a full blitz and give it up to a wide open receiver across the middle.  Why blitz on that play?  Just cover.  Or we go the other way and rush only 3 so the QB has all day.  I mean seriously,  how does that happen?  Just cover.

[WarpathHitchhiker]

Yep, this is one reason I never feel comfortable even with a 21 point lead in the 3rd quarter.  With our corners and safeties no team is out of it against us ever.

 

But honestly, the thing that grinds me the most is when we only have to stop someone on 4th and 21 to win the game, we do a full blitz and give it up to a wide open receiver across the middle.  Why blitz on that play?  Just cover.  Or we go the other way and rush only 3 so the QB has all day.  I mean seriously,  how does that happen?  Just cover.

 

In a 3rd and 4th or long (7+ yards) D coordinators blitz to get the ball out of the hand of the qb.  The thought is to play coverage at the sticks and come up and make the tackle.  I have no problem with it.  It's just assignment football. 

 

As to why you see our corners playing off in 3rd and short?  Well there can be a number of reasons.  1st, it could be a masked coverage.  I think a lot of the time you see our corners playing off pre-snap, but are really playing a hard corner and standing their ground or even walking up at the snap.  2nd, we don't have the personell really to make our base coverage a true cover 2.  Our safety play, especially last year, wasn't "rangey" enough to play half the field.  That's why you see more of the tampa two (with Fletch playing medium to deep middle) and corners sinking to help deeper routes.  Lastly, you'll see corners playing off coverage when it's a man blitz.  Simple reason being: we don't have the corners/safeties to play bump and run coverage when blitzing and also, the threat of a big-play is mitigated when you're playing off.  Corners are generally expecting the ball to come out quick (hitch, slant, quick out).  But one of the new trends, especially with big-play WRs, is sending them on a 9 route.  We just don't have the physical corners to match up against that.

 

Hopefully Amerson can be our press coverage guy...I like his tools.  The addition of Rambo as kind of our centerfield free safety will also help.  Now that we have a potent 4 man rush you may end up seeing less blitzes on third and short.  Haslett has always been a heavy blitzer though...

[Jumbo]

 

I appreciate all of the knowledgeable feedback from our football pros here.  I am just a dumb fan who gets pissed when I see something I can't understand.

 

 

 

As I read the OP and the thread I was struck by two things--one was old hat and the other kind of fresh.

 

The old hat thing was the fact we have a large number of x's and o's guys on this site that help get the more deeply-detailed football knowledge out there (though everyone is still human when it comes to opinions lol).

 

The fresh thing was how cool it was you start this kind of thread as a newbie, at potential risk to your ego  ,  and stayed with it, drawing more full explanations to your questions. It's a great way to discuss the team and share knowledge and I always wished we had more people ask such questions in threads.

 

Love seeing stuff like this first thing in my morning ES review. 

[mitchellvii]

Warpath,

 

While I appreciate your reasoned analysis, the point is it simply does not work in our case.  Here is the painful truth:

 

The 'Skins pass defense ranked 30th in the NFL (281.9 yards per game) and 31st overall in touchdowns allowed (31). The defense finished last in the NFL in third-down conversions allowed—an alarming 44.2 percent.

 

You don't get much worse than last.  I think maybe the cushion needs some pushin.