TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Referring to someone as a beast in the context of the game and directly calling someone gorgeous and winking at them are not the same thing. The equivalent would be Erin Andrews opening an interview with Watt by saying "hey there sexy" and giving a raise of the eyebrows.And to be fair, reporters ARE held to a higher professional standard than players. I don't mean a beast based on a sack or play on the field. I mean if they look at a dude who's jacked and call him a beast or a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Well, hittable and gorgeous fall into two distinctly different categories, no? I think I have to start another thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I think I have to start another thread Honestly, I normally separate beautiful, cute, and sexy into different categories. And I think that for a women her age (probably late 40's/early 50's) Tafoya looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaissance Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I don't mean a beast based on a sack or play on the field. I mean if they look at a dude who's jacked and call him a beast or a monster. Again, it's in the context of them being an athlete. Like when Chris Collinsworth was salivating over Miles Austin's leg muscles, that's in the context of the game. And if you don't see the difference between that and referring to a woman as gorgeous and winking at her then I don't know what to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Honestly, I normally separate beautiful, cute, and sexy into different categories. And I think that for a women her age (probably late 40's/early 50's) Tafoya looks good. I was just toking, but I think I really should start another thread. ---------- Post added November-21st-2012 at 12:19 PM ---------- Again, it's in the context of them being an athlete. Like when Chris Collinsworth was salivating over Miles Austin's leg muscles, that's in the context of the game. Can I talk about a woman's thighs while she is doing a long jump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Again, it's in the context of them being an athlete. Like when Chris Collinsworth was salivating over Miles Austin's leg muscles, that's in the context of the game. And if you don't see the difference between that and referring to a woman as gorgeous and winking at her then I don't know what to say. So, if I play a sport for a willing I am implicitly subjecting myself to be commented on and evaluated for my appearance. However, if I pick a profession that requires me to be on TV, I'm not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Erin Andrews and Stuart Scott occupy the same position (give or take since I don't know exactly what their roles are at ESPN). I don't think one of them should play by different rules than the other. Dogs? Really...I'm sure the women you're defending will love that one. either respond to my points or don't, but intentionally missing and misconstruing my points only degrades the quality of discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaissance Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Can I talk about a woman's thighs while she is doing a long jump? So, if I play a sport for a willing I am implicitly subjecting myself to be commented on and evaluated for my appearance. However, if I pick a profession that requires me to be on TV, I'm not? Do you guys not see a difference between the examples you're giving and directly referring to someone as gorgeous in a conversation and winking at them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 either respond to my points or don't, but intentionally missing and misconstruing my points only degrades the quality of discourse. I thought I did. I don't agree that a man and woman in the same job in the same industry should have to play by different rules. That takes us further away from where we need to go, in my opinion. I also believe that comparing man vs. woman to man vs. dog is ridiculous and doesn't make your point any stronger at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Contrary to popular belief, women do like compliments. I thought so too :confused: If they don't want to be subjected to my advances, they should stop saying suggestive stuff to me all the time like "Hello" or "Can I take your order?" I don't get women sometimes. well let me clear it up for you guys. women who are at work or who are strangers to you are completely uninterested in your unsolicited opinions on their appearance. if they are a coworker or if they are waiting on you, they will most likely politely smile and react graciously, despite your rude and inappropriate behavior making them uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Do you guys not see a difference between the examples you're giving and directly referring to someone as gorgeous in a conversation and winking at them? I think you're losing sight of the context of what actually happened in an attempt to continue making your point. Had Jones gone on about Tafoya and said something like "damn, you are gorgeous...sorry, what were you asking me?" then I think I'd have a problem with it. That would be much more similar to what Joe Namath did to Suzy Kolber and would have absolutely crossed the line. The fact that he, for less than a second, spoke to a 50-year old woman the way we all talk to your friends' moms is fine with me. I find his use of the term "gorgeous" there no more offensive or inappropriate than Stuart Scott calling a player "homie" or "brotha" or something. It's casual, benign conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 well let me clear it up for you guys. women who are at work or who are strangers to you are completely uninterested in your unsolicited opinions on their appearance. if they are a coworker or if they are waiting on you, they will most likely politely smile and react graciously, despite your rude and inappropriate behavior making them uncomfortable. My post was a joke. But for the record I think you're waaay over-thinking this whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I thought I did. I don't agree that a man and woman in the same job in the same industry should have to play by different rules. That takes us further away from where we need to go, in my opinion. I also believe that comparing man vs. woman to man vs. dog is ridiculous and doesn't make your point any stronger at all. it shouldn't be such a difficult thing to grasp that women do not appreciate the near-constant reminders that they are always, no matter what they are doing, being evaluated as an object of desire by the person they're interacting with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 it shouldn't be such a difficult thing to grasp that women do not appreciate the near-constant reminders that they are always, no matter what they are doing, being evaluated as an object of desire by the person they're interacting with. Fine. I think you and others are being ridiculously over-sensitive about this but I respect your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Do you guys not see a difference between the examples you're giving and directly referring to someone as gorgeous in a conversation and winking at them? You said Collinsworth was salivating over Austin's leg muscles during the game and that was in context. If I talk about Allyson Felix's thighs when she does the long jump, would that be in context? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaissance Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 The fact that he, for less than a second, spoke to a 50-year old woman the way we all talk to your friends' moms is fine with me. I find his use of the term "gorgeous" there no more offensive or inappropriate than Stuart Scott calling a player "homie" or "brotha" or something. It's casual, benign conversation. That's why I said it's not offensive and the guy shouldn't be chastised for it. But the fact is that it's not appropriate to refer to a woman as gorgeous and wink at her in that context. No matter how casual or benign you think it was, the fact that people think it's ok to do that is an issue because the language and gestures we use, no matter how normal or casual they may seem, relay social constructs and stereotypes which hold true. And when people don't think it's out of line to relay those stereotypes, they continue to be ok when they really shouldn't be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I get what everybody is saying, but I think we are blowing this situation WAY!! out of proportion. It was harmless. Tafoya said she doesn't care. But people want to use this to talk about a problem that we all know exist and try to compare it to this. Yes women are objectified (some like it), but every male in the world isn't a dog. If a women feels offended/uncomfortable, they should say something to somebody so it gets handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renaissance Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 You said Collinsworth was salivating over Austin's leg muscles during the game and that was in context. If I talk about Allyson Felix's thighs when she does the long jump, would that be in context? Yes, but that's assuming that as a sportscaster you wouldn't talk about them the same way you'd talk about them here on ES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Yes, but that's assuming that as a sportscaster you wouldn't talk about them the same way you'd talk about them here on ES. I can say: "Wow, Feilx generates that power on her jump from those thighs." That is in context with the sport. It is also stated in a way that isn't derogatory. I can see if I said: "Dang, Feilix is packing back there. That is how she jumps so far" That would be inappropriate. But I am sure that people would take offense to both of the statements. THAT isn't fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I can understand women wanring to be taken seriously by men, professionally and personally, and I know plenty of men do view women as objects of their desires as well, and for the most part, from my experience, at the various jobs I've been at, men have said things that would be deemed far more offensive than "Thank you gorgeous," and a lot of times the women were okay with it far more often than they weren't. I still think it's a sizeable leap to assume that just because a guy thinks a woman is attractive (and lets her know that, through various subtle and not so subtle remarks), that he doesn't see her as an equal, but instead sees her as a sexual object. That is going off of a cliff in terms of overreaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 That's why I said it's not offensive and the guy shouldn't be chastised for it.But the fact is that it's not appropriate to refer to a woman as gorgeous and wink at her in that context. No matter how casual or benign you think it was, the fact that people think it's ok to do that is an issue because the language and gestures we use, no matter how normal or casual they may seem, relay social constructs and stereotypes which hold true. And when people don't think it's out of line to relay those stereotypes, they continue to be ok when they really shouldn't be. You're right, gorgeous. Edit: I'm just not going to buy that different industries don't have different rules. When you sign up to be in front of a camera as a public figure as your career, you are bringing your looks into the equation. So, what is OK during football interviews or on the red carpet in Hollywood has no relevance to what I'm allowed to say in my boring client meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 it's still inappropriate and misogynistic even if it's a "compliment." women do NOT want your unsolicited opinion on how they look, particularly in professional settings. men need to get that through their heads. This is so false I don't even know where to begin. The entire fashion industry thrives on people wanting others to think they look good. I agree that men shouldn't assume every woman wants to be called sexy out of nowhere but to say that NO women want compliments or don't appreciate compliments is ludicrous, and you know it. Some do, some don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 This is so false I don't even know where to begin. The entire fashion industry thrives on people wanting others to think they look good. I agree that men shouldn't assume every woman wants to be called sexy out of nowhere but to say that NO women want compliments or don't appreciate compliments is ludicrous, and you know it. Some do, some don't. Agreed. Like I said earlier, I trhink it's all about your choice of words. It would have to be with someone that I'm on speaking terms with though. From what I've seen and experienced, older women seem to appreciate it more than women arund my age, or younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 Agreed. Like I said earlier, I trhink it's all about your choice of words. It would have to be with someone that I'm on speaking terms with though. From what I've seen and experienced, older women seem to appreciate it more than women arund my age, or younger. Really, I think people our age appreciate it to. And the wording is crucial. If you say, "damn you look sexy in those yoga pants", then you shouldn't be surprised when she looks at you with that gtf out of my sight face which you deserve. But a simple compliment on her hair if you truly mean it will probably be taken with much more appreciation. And no, it does not automatically mean I view her as an object or as someone I wouldn't want to hang out and watch a game with. That's incredibly unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Pregame: Well, I'm standing here with Linebacker X .. whatg do you think the keys are to tonights game? Linebacker X: I think we need to play good and not make mistakes. And there you have it Al, linebacker X wants to pay well and not make mistakes. back to you. Halftime: With the Giants losing at halftime, I asked Tom Coughlin what he thinks they need to do to make a comeback in the second half, and he told me that they had to play better and not make mistakes. Back to you Al. Mid-Game: It looks like the trainers are working on eli manning, and I'm told he sustained a left knee injury.. not sure how serious that is., but you can all see that from the camera, so there's really no news to report here that you don't already know. back to you, Al. Postgame : I'/m here with linebackerX, and you told me before the game you were going to try to play good and not make mistakes, do you think you did? LinebackerX: yeah, I played good, we played good, i tried real hard to minimize my mistakes and so i did, an we won the football game Back to you. ~Every sideline reporter, every single week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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