HTTR24-7:Interview Transcript W/ Michael Lombardi 11/14/12..

[darrelgreenie]

How did this article and conversation become a discussion about getting rid of Shanahan? It is not.

[DC9]

Has this idea even been bought up to Dan? Isn't that the job of Morrocco Brown oversee?

Yeah, but we don't know how long of a leash Morroco has. He's HIGHLY regarded around the league and it's expected that he'll have a brite future somewhere. Who knows, Mike may like the scouts in place.

I know that the first year Shanny was here, they used the grades of the previous scouts for the 2010 draft class because Mike wasn't hired until January/Feb that year and there was no way he could put together a group of guys who would be able to do the required work before the draft. It was expected that a new group would be brought in the next year, though... I didn't hear if one was or not, but I believe it's mostly the same guys.

That, and we don't know if Mike listens to the scouts and Morroco on things or what he has them doing... remember, he's the king dingaling, for all we know he could have them cutting up tape for him to watch and that's it. I am not making excuses for Morroco, but he's very highly regarded as a young, up and coming personnel mind... but in fairness, he could be flopping as well. I just don't think he's been given the chance because of the current structure.

EDIT: And these problems existed in Denver for Mike, and Vinny was the culprit before here... so we don't know. But as I said... it's just difficult to tell who does what badly the way things are currently set up, atleast as an outsider looking in.

[pjfootballer]

Ouch.

I mean, i know i should say more, a one word post is nearly flag worthy. But really, that's all there is to say...

Ouch.

I was thinking the same thing. I'm just so tired of going through this year after year. Everything is always negative. I really thought we'd turned the corner when we drafted Griffin, that all the negativity would go away. But such as us, it never does. God, this article just punches you right in the gut!

[DC9]

Current setup

Executive VP/GM Bruce Allen

Director of Pro Personnel: Morocco Brown

Director of Player Personnel: Scott Campbell

VP Football Administration: Eric Shaffer

Area Scout: Cole Spencer , Darryl Franklin,Tim Gribble,Jim Zeches,David Whittington,Kyle Smith

Pro Scout: Alex Santos, Richard Mann II

I keep Brown and Shaffer out of all of those guys... the rest owe me a "why I should keep my job" report by the end of this year.

[DC9]

I've heard this sentiment a quite a few times around here, but how do we know Morocco isn't part of the problem? If I understand correctly (and I'm simplifying the process here), he gets all the info together on pro and college players, gives Shanahan a list of "good" players, and then Shanahan makes the ultimate decision. How do we know Shanahan hasn't just been given bad info?

That's a fair question, but it's difficult to tell under the current structure. When you have a Czar like Shanny, it does two things...

1) It makes it hard for the public to know who ****ed up, so Shanny can take the blame and all of the issues stay internal (or Shanny takes the credit)

2) It makes it hard for the public to know who ****ed up, so we don't know what the problem is...haha

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Peter King, an avid Skins hater (he voted to keep Art Monk out of the HOF) predicted Skins will win multiple championships. He cited not only RGIII, but Mike's track record with building potent offenses in Denver.

http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?372570-Peter-King-predicts-Skins-will-win-championships-.-Plural.

ok but I'd go as far to say that most of the praise was for Griffin and to a lesser degree, Kyle

The Giants' players specifically were talking about RGIII

[authentic]

I obviously was not there but have heard that Snyder/Shanahan incident did happen.

What I think should happen?

I think Snyder should use his money to have the best personnel and training department money can buy. I think Bruce should vacate the GM title and do the same work he is doing under a different title. Hire a true hot GM prospect ( Not a retread ) and then allow him to find the right coach ( Not a retread) .. We need guys leading this team who have that burning desire to be great and that usually comes from unproven commodities trying to make a name for themselves.

Then I would let my state of the art personnel department go to work and see what happens..

I don't see what the big deal would be in getting this done. Other than egos need to be set aside. The first place i would look is Houston, Baltimore, or Seattle's FOs..

[TSO]

Well it depends on what you mean by 'any of this' but people have been discussing general management of the team under the Mike Shanahan regime. Maybe those discussions were drowned out if not out right shouted down but they were there. I've been questioning the HC as GM model from the outset.

You've been questioning the model, that's nice. You question everything, dg. Oldfan as well. Hardly worth me including you in my point, but that's fine. I guess I should've worded it differently. Maybe there was a "peep" if it.

I think characterizing this article or criticism of Mike Shanahan as a GM as 'bashing' seems like an knee jerk hardcore apologist position.

I was being inclusive of all of these threads. We've got a ton of them with post after post doing little but criticizing everything he's done here. Maybe I'm being rash in including this thread as another one of those, but that was my point in saying it's seems like we're just piling on now.

Set backs are an opportunity. The cap hit and personnel misques represent an opportunity to fix that areas mistakes once and for all.

Agreed.

---------- Post added November-15th-2012 at 11:33 AM ----------

Shanny is far from perfect. In fact, he's made some terrible moves.

But he has had suffered some really bad luck at the same time.

Not ready to jump ship.

For one thing, I don't have a lot of faith in Snyder making a great decision in his next hire.

Gruden? HA. Am I the only one who remembers how things ended for him in Tampa? Him and Bruce Allen were a worse combo than... well, Shanny and Bruce Allen.

A smart young coach with a strong GM? Does anyone ever see that happening here?

I don't have the answers. But I think our best best -- and it's a longshot -- is sticking it out with Mike.

Also, as much as I enjoy listening to Michael Lombardi, HE WAS AN AWFUL PERSONNEL GUY IN THE NFL.

This is exactly how I feel about everything. I want Mike to have 5 full years here with complete control. If anything, we'll come out of it a younger football team with a franchise QB that doesn't have a bunch of players that are headcases. To me, that's actually worst case, which isn't bad considering what we've had before. Best case is Mike recognizes what needs to fixed even within himself and starts putting together wins.

[gortiz]

This is a hell of thread LL …and thanks for sharing your interview with Mike, who I think along with Greg Cosell , is one of the few guys that give it to you straight, with no bells and whistles, cute buzz words, or bias.

I know all types of excuses can be made about the success some teams and their FIRST year coaches have had in a relatively short amount of time (e.g. Harbaugh/Ravens - had Lewis and Reed, Mike Smith/Falcons - they were in bad shape, Harbaugh/49er’s had a bunch of talent and 1st rd. draft pics, Coughlin/Giants, Sparano/Miami - albeit short lived, Morris/Bucs - see Sparano, Parcells/Boys - turn them around, Payton/Saints – Brees vs. McNabb?) but the truth of the matter is all those teams had real bad records before these guys came on, and they turned the damn thing around within a two years, and most within in one.

Mike has totally failed to do that now in year three, and he has had more resources and a much stronger fan base to work with then almost all of those teams.

Now maybe the damage done by Vinnie and Dan goes so deep, that yes the skins were in worst shape then the aforementioned teams, but the thing is, the results are not there and so far, the team is getting worse each year, that is what is scary. The cuppard seems real bare.

Lombardi I think is just as disillusioned as us … why is the line so bad? He’s had three years. How did he miss so badly on McNabb? The Haynesworth thing was a complete circus. Look at how Atlanta handled Robert Edwards…why could he not get the best out of Carlos and Laron or AT LEAST ONE OF THEM?

When you step back and see the forest for the trees, it’s bleak man. Even with RG3.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I keep Brown and Shaffer out of all of those guys... the rest owe me a "why I should keep my job" report by the end of this year.

It is ridiculous that we have 2 pro scouts to cover the 1,600+ players in the NFL. At any given time, our team should have a ranked list of players at every position so that we know where we stand (according to our own metrics) at all times. I'm not sure how 2 scouts could maintain that.

[TSO]

It's not just two losses. That's just your way of denying what you know is probably true. Lombardi said nothing that should be even controversial.

No, it's not. And I didn't say he did.

[TSO]

What the heck is up with the posts, this board is losing it. Like its fans. :pfft:

[TSO]

How did this article and conversation become a discussion about getting rid of Shanahan? It is not.

All of these threads go that way now.

[Oldfan]

....Again, I'm not going to change my whole perception of this rebuild and where it's going because of two bad losses.

It's not just two losses. That's just your way of denying what you know is probably true. Lombardi said nothing that should be even controversial. Your rebuild is not a hopeless situation, but it isn't going well.

[pjfootballer]

Mike was fired in Denver after he delivered just one playoff win in ten years with full control of the team. So, we have to ask if he has picked up his game enough to make us a winner.

The one positive I can come up with is his handling of free agency. In Denver, he blew money on under-performing free agents almost as badly as the Skins did. He's doing better here. But, so far, his drafting is mediocre. Not counting Jenkins who only starts because of injury, Mike has added five starters since 2010. In the same period, Belichik added eight. Despite picking lower in the draft, the Patriots ended up with more picks and better results.

I do agree with most of your post. But I really don't think we need to keep comparing ourselves to the Patriots. I know you'll say they are the standard for building a franchise and that is all well and good, but I think we need to make the changes without comparing ourselves to another team. If we can change things doing it our way, fine or if they use the model of the Patiots way, fine also. Just so long as the ship gets turned around. The Patriots are 10 years ahead of us with regards to their plan. I mean, the Patriots have had less holes to fill since 2010 than we have. It's like giving one person a shovel to fill a hole and the other a baby spoon. Again, not disagreeing with what you said in terms of Shanahan, but I disagree that the two franchises should be compared at this point and I've seen you say this in other threads.

[DC9]

I don't see what the big deal would be in getting this done. Other than egos need to be set aside. The first place i would look is Houston, Baltimore, or Seattle's FOs..

http://www.redskins.com/team/staff/morocco-brown/aff6c80b-9305-49c4-912a-e0f87ba8779e

Here is Brown's resume prior to joining us in 2008:

Prior to re-joining the Redskins, Brown spent the previous seven seasons as Assistant Director of Pro Personnel with Chicago (2001-07).

He directed the scouting of upcoming AFC opponents and the Arena Football League for the Bears. During his tenure in Chicago, the Bears captured the 2006 NFC Championship and made the club's first Super Bowl appearance since 1985.

Brown spent the 2000 season and 2001 offseason as an assistant scout with Washington. Brown prepared weekly scouting reports, evaluated NFL prospects and managed free agent and draft prospect visits.

Brown originally entered the NFL as a scouting intern with the Indianapolis Colts in the spring of 2000.

He is a 1999 graduate of North Carolina State University, where he lettered in football for four years and served as team captain his senior season. He led the Wolfpack in tackles for three straight seasons and was twice named honorable mention All-ACC.

Brown was a teammate of Redskins' pro scout Alex Santos at North Carolina State. He earned a Bachelor's degree in parks, recreation and tourism with a concentration in program/sports management.

A native of Hampton, Va., Brown attended Kecoughtan High School. Brown's brother, Milan, is the head men's basketball coach at Holy Cross. Brown and his wife, Kendra, have two sons, Macari (5) and Macaiden (3). The family resides in Ashburn, Va

If we are in to cleaning house, I am with that. But I am also with LL's philosophy... hire a GM... a young, hungry cat with everything to prove, and let him pick a coach and control the organization. That's the way you do it. He'll pick his own staff out. I don't want any of this... "well, you can pick out everyone, but little Schotty gets a job or it's no deal." Let him run the organization.

Morocco has been groomed for five years now and helped build some pretty good teams in Chicago, he was hired by Bill Polian as a scout for his first job in the league, worked under some good guys over in Chicago... he has some seasoning. I say lets see what he can do, but that's just my vote/opinion. Maybe it'd be better to get fresh eyes in here... but that'd be a waste throwing all of that time you've spent on M. Brown out the window.

[DC9]

It is ridiculous that we have 2 pro scouts to cover the 1,600+ players in the NFL. At any given time, our team should have a ranked list of players at every position so that we know where we stand (according to our own metrics) at all times. I'm not sure how 2 scouts could maintain that.

Mike has said in the past that we have that. Specifically after we signed Cundiff... he said "We have grades on everyone, and when Cundiff was cut, he had a higher grade then the guy we had here so we brought him in."

But I agree... we need more than that. More money = more scouts = better systems = better product. Mike Lombardi is on to something ; )

The reason I like Shaffer is he is absolutely a BOSS at contracts and working cap space... I mean... Bruce gets the credit, but Shaffer is the one who got all of the numbers to add up for the FA we signed this year.

EDIT: If you can't tell, TD... this is my wheel house. The nerd side of football ops ; )

---------- Post added November-15th-2012 at 01:49 PM ----------

This is a hell of thread LL …and thanks for sharing your interview with Mike, who I think along with Greg Cosell , is one of the few guys that give it to you straight, with no bells and whistles, cute buzz words, or bias.

I know all types of excuses can be made about the success some teams and their FIRST year coaches have had in a relatively short amount of time (e.g. Harbaugh/Ravens - had Lewis and Reed, Mike Smith/Falcons - they were in bad shape, Harbaugh/49er’s had a bunch of talent and 1st rd. draft pics, Coughlin/Giants, Sparano/Miami - albeit short lived, Morris/Bucs - see Sparano, Parcells/Boys - turn them around, Payton/Saints – Brees vs. McNabb?) but the truth of the matter is all those teams had real bad records before these guys came on, and they turned the damn thing around within a two years, and most within in one.

Mike has totally failed to do that now in year three, and he has had more resources and a much stronger fan base to work with then almost all of those teams.

Now maybe the damage done by Vinnie and Dan goes so deep, that yes the skins were in worst shape then the aforementioned teams, but the thing is, the results are not there and so far, the team is getting worse each year, that is what is scary. The cuppard seems real bare.

Lombardi I think is just as disillusioned as us … why is the line so bad? He’s had three years. How did he miss so badly on McNabb? The Haynesworth thing was a complete circus. Look at how Atlanta handled Robert Edwards…why could he not get the best out of Carlos and Laron or AT LEAST ONE OF THEM?

When you step back and see the forest for the trees, it’s bleak man. Even with RG3.

Strong post, goritz.

Along the same thinking as you... I think the one thing Mike did change (as I mentioned earlier) is he changed the culture. We aren't a country club anymore, and I believe he will hand over a better product than what he found... but I don't think he can do anything else with this team. I just think that's where we are at with this guy.

[TSO]

It's not just two losses. That's just your way of denying what you know is probably true. Lombardi said nothing that should be even controversial. Your rebuild is not a hopeless situation, but it isn't going well.

I just noticed your edit...

No, it's not going well. But I believe it's not going well due to things outside of Mike's control... that is where we differ.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Mike has said in the past that we have that. Specifically after we signed Cundiff... he said "We have grades on everyone, and when Cundiff was cut, he had a higher grade then the guy we had here so we brought him in."

But I agree... we need more than that. More money = more scouts = better systems = better product. Mike Lombardi is on to something ; )

The reason I like Shaffer is he is absolutely a BOSS at contracts and working cap space... I mean... Bruce gets the credit, but Shaffer is the one who got all of the numbers to add up for the FA we signed this year.

We might literally have it...but the quality is called into question when you are asking 2 men to create and maintain a list that has to be fluid. Who knows, maybe I'm overrating the job. I would love to have one scout per division...not only would it help with FAs and trades, but it would help the coaching staff during game preparation.

[Hooper]

If we are in to cleaning house, I am with that. But I am also with LL's philosophy... hire a GM... a young, hungry cat with everything to prove, and let him pick a coach and control the organization. That's the way you do it. He'll pick his own staff out. I don't want any of this... "well, you can pick out everyone, but little Schotty gets a job or it's no deal." Let him run the organization.

Would be nice.

But I can't imagine that happening here ever.

The only guys Snyder will listen to and give power to are ones with a big track record.

A smart, young, hungry guy? Snyder would give him no rope at all.

[DC9]

We might literally have it...but the quality is called into question when you are asking 2 men to create and maintain a list that has to be fluid. Who knows, maybe I'm overrating the job. I would love to have one scout per division...not only would it help with FAs and trades, but it would help the coaching staff during game preparation.

I don't think you are over rating it at all. I agree whole heartidly with you. There is no way two guys can do that job effectively unless they are using the scouting grades from the draft... which creates other issues, but would explain why we brought in guys like Big Mike Williams, lol.

Anywho... just think of how long it would take to watch tape on one guy... not counting a rewind, but watching tape the whole way through. 25-30 minutes per game? X1600 players? Yeah, those numbers don't add up.

[DC9]

Would be nice.

But I can't imagine that happening here ever.

The only guys Snyder will listen to and give power to are ones with a big track record.

A smart, young, hungry guy? Snyder would give him no rope at all.

You never know and as of today you are probably right... it's like weening a kid off the bottle. Little by little... he's gotten much better each year since 2009 (and it was hard not to, but still) about staying out of the football picture.

I think he trusts Bruce Allen. Which is why I make Bruce Allen president of the organization, basically, a buffer between Dan and the football team. Bruce has no football operations power, but he is the go between that links Dan to the GM. He's the face of the franchise, and he organizes the alumni keg stand and pie eating contest each year. Dan signs the checks... Dan is comfortable with Bruce and trusts Bruce.

It's a reach, but it may have to be the approach. You have to give it to Dan, he is a recluse and hates bad press, but he's come a long way the last few years. He might surprise us.

[Oldfan]

I just noticed your edit...

No, it's not going well. But I believe it's not going well due to things outside of Mike's control... that is where we differ.

That's fine. Just so you understand that my doubts didn't start with two recent losses. They began on the announcement of his hiring by examining Mike's resume beginning in 1999.

[Lavarleap56]

I just noticed your edit...

No, it's not going well. But I believe it's not going well due to things outside of Mike's control... that is where we differ.

What is outside of Mike Shanahans control ?

[TSO]

Would be nice.

But I can't imagine that happening here ever.

The only guys Snyder will listen to and give power to are ones with a big track record.

A smart, young, hungry guy? Snyder would give him no rope at all.

Yup, therein lies the reliance on Mike for me. I almost feel like Mike HAS to succeed. That is not to say I have no reason to think he will other than hope. But, yeah, Snyder is too arrogant and controlling to let some young, hungry guy step in and do his thing.