codeorama Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 In my opinion, McNuggett is not the best suited quarterback for the Eagles offense. Sure, his mobility will be a huge positive factor at times, but a pocket passer that is more accurate and spreads the ball around wouldn't need that added mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posse81 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Ok, I'm not going to get into the discussion on racism, because I don't think there is much there to talk about. (But understand that Limbaugh making that comment is going to invite a discussion on racism). But, lets not start comparing McNabb to Akili Smith. McNabb had a tough few games to start year. He has taken his team to the NFC championship two years in a row now and played a good game on Sunday. He has killed us with his arm and his feet. The offense talent around him has been average at best and he still moves that offense. Akili Smith is out of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 You can mince words all you like, my little sophist, but the fact remains that the intent of your statement was to: 1) Blame Johnson for going into a prevent D 2) Assert that PR only succeeded because of the prevent D What can I say, I have to correct such obvious falsehood. "I wasn't blaming him, just commenting on it.." Blah Blah Blah.... :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 McNabb is a likeable character. He's a laid-back straight shooter... with a good smile and sense of humor. Vick, for instance, isn't going to many commercial endorsements. He just doesn't have much personality. He's good... but he's needs work on his public persona. It's pretty easy to see why McNabb gets some hype. He's a player who can make big plays that can change the outcome of the game. He's not a "dominant player who can carry a team on his shoulders" good.... but he can make some plays with his feet that are highlight material. Just like any other elite player in the NFL. McNabb just isn't suited for the WCO. That doesn't mean he's not a playmaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I think Kilmer's point on the McNabb vs. Smith thing is that if Philly had of picked Smith, and Cincy picked McNabb, similar results would have occurred for the teams (Smith would be doing well in Philly, McNabb would have tanked). I think there is a degree of truth in that statement, but it is highly exaggerated. Yes, Smith would have been more successful in Philly, and McNabb would struggle in Cincy. But, the big difference between the two is that McNabb has always seemed much more dedicated and committed. Smith was kind of a one-year wonder in college. I think he's actually a better pure passer than McNabb (who I believe is one of the lesser passers in the league), but go talk to Jeff George about intangibles and leadership. McNabb has those qualities, as well as a playmaking aspect that is tough to defend. But, I've always felt that his passing ability and his overall feel for the passing game would ultimately limit him from approaching Steve Young status. Teaching and experience will only take you so far - you need a natural knack for it, too, at the NFL level and it just doesn't seem that McNabb has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Rush, the political pundit ranges from being incredibly insightful to incredibly stupid. Looks like he is the same as a football pundit. In this case he was stupid. The whole thing about black QBs blew over a decade ago. No one with half a brain cares what color you are any more. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Yep. Right wing media people are no longer allowed to critique black athletes. To do so is obviously racist and they abviously have an ulterior motive. Do you people realize hopw utterly absurd you sound? Rush was giving commentary. At no point did he say McNabbs race had ANYTHING to do with his critique. What he said was that he was over-rated. And he IS over-rated. I happen to think he's a bad QB. Other's do not. But I think EVERYONE can agree that he is OVERRATED. Not good or bad, just that over the last 3 years he's been lauded for being an elite QB while his stats show otherwise. My comparison to Akili is simply showing that they were drafted 1 spot apart. One went to the Bengals, the other to a team with a stud defense and Special Teams. Reversing draft slots and we would be arguing that Akili Smith is/or is not over rated as an Eagle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 OSF, it's too bad that you don't see the difference in blaming something and explaining something. I even said that going into the prevent was probably a smart thing given that we were up 31-7 at the time. 2) Assert that PR only succeeded because of the prevent D I never wrote that PR succeeded ONLY because of the prevent. Obviously he still had to make the plays. He impressed me that day. This is in contrast to you, who refused to give McNabb any credit in the 37-7 victory and instead blamed Marvine Lewis. What can I say, I have to correct such obvious falsehood. You're not correcting any falsehoods, you're just incapable of thinking with nuance. You're apparently incapable of detecting the difference between explicating a situation and blaming somebody for the same situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbones Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 What does that mean the media went overboard with Michael Vick? Oh I see, it was the media who made Vick run between two defenders causing them to run into each other on his way to a TD in overtime and it was media who juked Mark Carrier out of his jock strap so bad that it left chafe marks. In regards to Vick, if you can't see that the guy is a superfreak athlete like almost no other than you are blind. Look what has happened to the Falcons w/o him. Just because we are Redskins fans does not mean we have to be obtuse like Cowboys fans and say other teams talent is inferior. McNabb has absolutely KILLED us in the past and has led his team to the NFC championship two years running. Is he the best Qb in the league? No. Is he top ten? Most definatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Kilmer, noone is saying or has said black athletes are above criticism. Where did anyone say that regarding this thread? Beleive me, I have no problem with Rush calling McNabb overrated. But saying that 'the media' has been overhyping a QB because he's black, that 'the media' wanted a black QB to get to the Superbowl as if it's some rare occurance the NFL is starved for is just plain ignorance. Such claims are 15 years too late. That's outdated rhetoric of over a decade ago. I expected Rush to sound like a neophyte at times, but even I gave him too much credit when I assumed he'd keep his politics out of it. And I guess noone is allowed to critique Rush Limbaugh, either. Actions or words have consequences, but only if they are ones you disagree with, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 best black qb ever=warren moon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by BodyBagGame OSF, it's too bad that you don't see the difference in blaming something and explaining something. I even said that going into the prevent was probably a smart thing given that we were up 31-7 at the time. I never wrote that PR succeeded ONLY because of the prevent. Obviously he still had to make the plays. He impressed me that day. This is in contrast to you, who refused to give McNabb any credit in the 37-7 victory and instead blamed Marvine Lewis. You're not correcting any falsehoods, you're just incapable of thinking with nuance. You're apparently incapable of detecting the difference between explicating a situation and blaming somebody for the same situation. Here's what you said: "And yeah, Ramsey had a good game but remember that we were up 31-7 at one point and went into the prevent defense." Why bother to mention the prevent D at all? Are you saying that Ramsey would have failed if they played man coverage? Yeah, I understand your "nuance". :doh: I give credit to McNabb for being, essentially, a good running back that can manage to throw the ball half way decently. I guess my point is that Kurt's gameplan was much more effective because Arrington spied him the entire game and he was forced to become a pocket passer, where he fails miserably. I also blame Lewis because his defense allows for mismatches. For instance, the first TD throw in that game came against David Terrell, one of the worst safeties in the NFL. Since Trash was your "#1" WR, Bailey should have been covering him. It is well documented how Lewis stupidly refused to place Champ on the other team's best WR at all times. The Eagles offense wasn't successful in that game due to some overwhelmingly superior talent. Reid took advantage of a rather stupid Lewis gameplan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Why bother to mention the prevent D at all? Are you saying that Ramsey would have failed if they played man coverage? Yeah, I understand your "nuance". Because it was a friggin' factor!!!! You want to think that Ramsey just went out and smote the Eagles defense; god forbid that I mention that the smoting (or is it smiting?) came after the Eagles were up 31-7. And to repeat: I didn't blame Johnson; I credited him!!!!!! The prevent defense wasn't the only factor, but it was a factor! Again, no nuance. Re: most of your other stuff: yeah, maybe. Who knows. But the fact is that the Eagles still scored 37 points with McNabb as QB. Lewis isn't an idiot, and in my opinion there's not a big difference between Thrash and Pinkston (both are somewhat equally average). Maybe Lewis made some mistakes that created mismatches, but having Bailey cover Pinkston instead of Thrash isn't exactly an unpardonable crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RF4L Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Did Cosell really say that? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleSteve Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by RF4L Did Cosell really say that? Wow. Yes, he did. On MNF. Only problem was that he had used the same phrase a number of times before while doing college games and the race of the ball carrier didn't matter. HBO had a biography of Cosell on several years ago that pointed this out. If I remember correctly, they showed a clip of him saying "look at that little monkey run" as a white RB scored a long TD. Sort of an inopportune phrase for Howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief skin Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Mcnabb is a damn good football player unfortunately he is playing for a coach who insists on making him fit into a system the coach is determined to run, instead of devising a system that is best suited to Mcnabb's natural talents. and :eaglesuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by Blazers21 Yes, he did. On MNF. Only problem was that he had used the same phrase a number of times before while doing college games and the race of the ball carrier didn't matter. HBO had a biography of Cosell on several years ago that pointed this out. If I remember correctly, they showed a clip of him saying "look at that little monkey run" as a white RB scored a long TD. Sort of an inopportune phrase for Howard. I saw the same thing. Cosell used the phrase on whites as well, but no one wanted to hear it. This country is WAY too racially sensitive sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 What cannot be excused about Cosell, however, is that he constantly insulted the intelligence of his viewers by wearing a bad toupee and thinking he could get away with it. Cosell has a nephew who works for NFL Films, and shows up occasionally on the Comcast Network show Sports Connection. He's actually pretty insightful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Originally posted by BodyBagGame Because it was a friggin' factor!!!! You want to think that Ramsey just went out and smote the Eagles defense; god forbid that I mention that the smoting (or is it smiting?) came after the Eagles were up 31-7. And to repeat: I didn't blame Johnson; I credited him!!!!!! The prevent defense wasn't the only factor, but it was a factor! Again, no nuance. Re: most of your other stuff: yeah, maybe. Who knows. But the fact is that the Eagles still scored 37 points with McNabb as QB. Lewis isn't an idiot, and in my opinion there's not a big difference between Thrash and Pinkston (both are somewhat equally average). Maybe Lewis made some mistakes that created mismatches, but having Bailey cover Pinkston instead of Thrash isn't exactly an unpardonable crime. David Terrell, last year's FS, blew the coverage on Trash. That would never have happened if Bailey was on him. The fact that Bailey was never used exclusively on the opposing team's best WR was a huge criticism of Lewis because Terrell and Shade sucked so bad in coverage. At least Smoot should have been on him. My point is that you should not criticize me for using scheme as an excuse whilst you conveniently use it as a defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 My point is that you should not criticize me for using scheme as an excuse whilst you conveniently use it as a defense. Actually, you made a lot of points, none of which held up very well. First it was that McNabb didn't have that many good games against the Skins; then it was that I was blaming Johnson for going into prevent last year; then it was that I argued that Ramsey only did well because of the prevent. The difference between us seems to be that I can accept that multiple factors can determine the outcome of a game. Maybe Lewis' schemes were lousy; but the Eagles had something to do with the 37-7 score also. Maybe Ramsey had an easier time in the second game because of the prevent, but I also admitted that he made some good plays. If Kordell Stewart were your QB, chances are there would have been no Redskins comeback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 If Kordell Stewart were your QB, chances are there would have been no Redskins comeback. You're only saying that because he's black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 You're only saying that because he's black. :rotflmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 whoaa.......yea the philly D is at the heart of their success.......but any three ways you cut it.....McNabb has been to NFC championship games...he has been the trigger man.........kudos go to the man in control.........he's well above average....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_dallas Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I watched it live and TOTALLY agree with him. His analysis was dead on the mark. Turning this into a racial issue, THAT is the problem. Not Rush. I guess since McNothing is black, he is above criticism and critique? Wrong, moron. Nobody would have mentioned this as an issue of race had Rush not said it himself. Just about any criticism of Mcnabb was fair game because his play ridiculous in weeks 1 and 2- he isn't above it because he's black. Rush said that he was overrated by the media because they want a black QB to succeed- so it is obvious that you didn't watch the broadcast (like you said you did) or you are retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Rush may not have some of the necessities to be, let's say, an NFL analyst, or perhaps a color commentator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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