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Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

JMS

By JMS
in The Tailgate

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted

Fixing it can not be permitted, at any cost. 

 

well they said it could not be delayed and look what happened.

 

the bills are coming due and climbing beyond projections......and the band plays on

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CrazyZeb

CrazyZeb

Posted
Posted

Excuse my ignorance on the topic, but what's the deal with the "if you like your plan you can keep it" thing?  I thought I was one of the lucky ones and was able to keep my plan this year, but I've just been notified it is no longer available starting in January.

 

They've offered me an ACA-compliant replacement plan that's supposedly similar to my old one (I haven't checked the details), but my premium will increase by 90%  :o

 

I've been self-insured since 2003 and obviously never encountered something like this.

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted

Reading that Price Waterhouse article. I note they're saying average Increases of 2%, but huge variation between states. And I wonder if, when calculating their average, did they count all states equally, or weigh them for population.

Still, 2% sure conflicts with what I'm pretty sure will be loudly announced by some.

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Corcaigh

Corcaigh

Posted
Posted (edited)

Still, 2% sure conflicts with what I'm pretty sure will be loudly announced by some.

 

twa's unbiased article claims for Minnesota ... "A 60 percent hike! How would such news impact voters weighing the choice between Al Franken and Mike McFadden --if they knew about it."

 

PWC forecasts for Minnesota:

 

Average Premium Increase: 5.7%
Median Premium Increase: 8.1%
Premium Increase Range: -9.1% to 17.2%
 
As a point of reference, here are increases in national healthcare costs:
 
0314-rising-health-care-costs_image1.gif
Edited by Corcaigh
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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)

averages hardly tell the individual impacts, or the higher ded and co-pays....the howling will  :lol:

 

 

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/28/obamacare-sends-health-premiums-skyrocketing-by-as/

 

http://www.healthpocket.com/healthcare-research/

 

 

You'd think based on those links that premiums weren't going up BEFORE Obamacare.

 

us_chs_HealthInsurancePremiums_072913.pn

 

 

Oh and the rate at which health care spending was increasing has been declining.

Edited by PeterMP
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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted

averages hardly tell the individual impacts, or the higher ded and co-pays....the howling will :lol:

Really?

We should ignore averages and pay attention to cherry picked data instead?

And deductibles and copays go up next year? I hadn't heard of that.

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted

Really?

We should ignore averages and pay attention to cherry picked data instead?

And deductibles and copays go up next year? I hadn't heard of that.

 

if average income has increased is there a income problem?  ;)

 

they will rise for some and drop for others

 

feel free to visit corcaighs link that is dealing with very limited number of states reporting

 

http://www.pwc.com/us/en/health-industries/health-research-institute/aca-state-exchanges.jhtml

 

the dots are the few with finalized filings

Colorado is 2% average......are you in the -22% or the +35% ?

 

I'll know from the wailing :P

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted

they will rise for some and drop for others

And twa will loudly trumpet the most spectacular increases, and try to get people to believe that they are typical.

 

feel free to visit corcaighs link that is dealing with very limited number of states reporting

 

 

 

From "corcaighs link that is dealing with very limited number of states reporting".  (Opening paragraph, in fact.) 

 

"In total, HRI has collected premium data from 41 states and the District of Columbia."

 

Now, you're correct.  The 2% number was from 7 states and DC.  For the nation as a whole, the average is 6%. 

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted (edited)

The cost of the PREMIUM is hardly telling with regards to the cost of the insurance.

 

You guys are on that JMS train.  Let's ignore everything but the premium and compare that to historical data.

 

Funny.  I was commenting on the Price Waterhouse report.  Which sure seems to claim to be comparing this year's premiums against next year's premiums, for the same sample.  (Specifically, the individual marketplace, on the exchanges, and off.) 

 

Looks like a pretty apples to apples comparison, to me. 

 

(Or were you addressing some other "you guys", and telling them what they were thinking?) 

Edited by Larry
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chipwhich

chipwhich

Posted
Posted

You'd think based on those links that premiums weren't going up BEFORE Obamacare.

 

Oh and the rate at which health care spending was increasing has been declining.

 

Larry, since you always struggle with understanding every one of my posts and choose to "attack the post not the poster"  :rolleyes:

 

The argument that PeterMP makes and JMS makes is always tied to the PREMIUM which doesn't tell the full story.  High deductibles as of late have had a major impact on keeping premiums down, but it puts the onus of those costs on we, the people.  Those deductible costs don't get computed in the cost of healthcare and premiums.

Now I know your next post will be a semantic dissection of every verb and noun used an pretending you don't understand contextually what I posted.

 

And as I have always stated, high deductible plans weren't caused by Obamacare, Obamacare exacerbates the issue and will be seen more and more in a means to keep premiums down and attract buyers in the exchanges.

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted

The argument that PeterMP makes and JMS makes is always tied to the PREMIUM which doesn't tell the full story.  High deductibles as of late have had a major impact on keeping premiums down, but it puts the onus of those costs on we, the people.  Those deductible costs don't get computed in the cost of healthcare and premiums.

Really?

Yeah, I'm well aware that Peter's latest post, for example, was discussing premium increases. He kinda had to, since he was responding to an article titled "Obamacare premiums soar as much as 78% to help cover ‘essential health benefits’")

(You know, an article which twa pulled up, to try to refute Price Waterhouse's report on the average premium increase, by pulling up an article which is screeching about the most spectacular outlier they could find.)

But if you really think we should be looking at the rate of increase in total healthcare spending, that seems fair to me. (Actually, I would assert that total healthcare spending per capita is probably better.)

 

(And I'm pretty certain that yes, any money spent towards someone's deductible actually does "get computed in the cost of healthcare and premiums".) 

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted

Just for clarity the Price Waterhouse's report on the average premium  is for premiums offered not for plans chosen or paid for.(

 

a low premium plan offered that no one wants brings down the average in the same way a platinum plan no one can afford raises it 

 

the cost of plans in effect would be more helpful to compare to the costs of renewals.(which is what the +9% for BCBS is on average)

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted

Just for clarity the Price Waterhouse's report on the average premium  is for premiums offered not for plans chosen or paid for.

I agree that a figure for "the average customer's bill will change by . . . " would be significant.

But I don't see anything in that link that says that's not what they're reporting. You got any support for that claim?

(I will also observe that if some hypothetical plan wasn't selling because their price was too high, so they lowered the price of the plan nobody bought, then maybe next year, people will switch to it.)

 

In fact, I would expect that to be one of the effects of the exchanges: A rather Darwinian competition among insurance companies.

And, unfortunately, it really encourages them to compete based on price alone.

I can see debate as to whether competition of this type is desirable or not.

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted

Actually it doesn't.  But if you have evidence to the contrary I am all ears.

Actually, I was going to ask you to support your claim that healthcare costs don't get computed into healthcare costs.

 

But you're perfectly correct.  I do not have the ability to prove that someone you haven't named is not either completely dishonest or an absolute idiot. 

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)

Larry, since you always struggle with understanding every one of my posts and choose to "attack the post not the poster"  :rolleyes:

 

The argument that PeterMP makes and JMS makes is always tied to the PREMIUM which doesn't tell the full story.  High deductibles as of late have had a major impact on keeping premiums down, but it puts the onus of those costs on we, the people.  Those deductible costs don't get computed in the cost of healthcare and premiums.

Now I know your next post will be a semantic dissection of every verb and noun used an pretending you don't understand contextually what I posted.

 

And as I have always stated, high deductible plans weren't caused by Obamacare, Obamacare exacerbates the issue and will be seen more and more in a means to keep premiums down and attract buyers in the exchanges.

 

1.  I responded to a post on premiums so my response was primarily about premiums.

 

2.  Since the introduction of ACA, the rate at which healthcare spending (so that includes deductables) is increasing has also declined (though how much of that is due to the ACA is unclear).  I actually made this point in my post so my post actually actually deal with all costs and not just deductibles and premiums, but all costs.

 

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-06-25/good-news-on-health-care-spending-is-making-u-dot-s-dot-gdp-look-bad

 

I'm not a big fan of the ACA (and never really have been), but from everything I read, it hasn't been negative and might have helped.

 

The only arguments that I see it is not working are ones that are pretending the situation before the ACA was enacted wasn't what it was (consistent increases in the rate at which health care spending were going up), which is ridiculous.

 

I'm not even sure it is actually making costs go down, but even if you have more insured with no increases in costs isn't that a good thing?

Edited by PeterMP
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