SOW: Redskins Biggest Needs in 2012 Draft

[BeefJerky]

1. QB- For obvious reasons

2.-WR- Need a deep threat and a red Zone guy.

3- RG- Hurt played well last year, but an upgrade is needed.

4. CB- need a nickle guy, Barnes is still a question mark.

5. OL- Depth, depth, and more depth.

6. LB- need depth here also, gotta start looking for Fletchers replacement soon.

7- S- We don't know if laron will be healthy or if Atogwe will be either.

I see us having a great draft with this FO.

[Wyvern]

The Skins biggest need in 2012 is more 'front-line' top-tier talent at a bunch of different positions. True, Shanahan/Allen have brought in better talent to replace the holdovers from the Vinny era -- but candidly, many of the new players being brought in are journeyman and 'second-tier' players,/free agents, or undrafted free agents plugged in for depth at thin positions.

Okay, the Pro Bowl isn't the fairest indicator -- but truthfully, how many "Pro Bowl" level players do the Skins have at the skill positions? Fletcher?, Orakpo?, Kerrigan? Gaffney??

Then Consider how many people have observed the Skins need for QBs, WRs. CBs, S's, RTs, Cs, ILBs, Gs, and NT (...and if things go badly, possibly LTs, TEs, and RBs). These are valid needs, but is it reasonable to expect the Skins Scouting Department to routinely find top-tier talent for ALL these positions avaiable in rounds 4 through 7, or in the ranks of the undrafted?

Consequently, it's concerning when trade scenarios are tossed around suggesting the Skins give up this year's 1st, 2nd and next years 1st, 2nd, and 3rd to the Rams to guarantee the right to select a possible franchise QB. It appears that the Skins needs are still numerous enough that 'Best Possible Athlete' approach is probably going to fill a position of need and may be the way to go in this draft. This is year three of the project to repair decades of Vinny'isms.

Sure the Skins need a top-tier QB -- but they need marquee talent at a lot of other spots as well. Unless the Front Office engages in a lot of free agency acquisitions (and that's always a mixed bag of results). many of these are going to have to be addressed through the draft. So when people point out how many picks the Skins have and how a big trade still leaves lots of picks -- it might be better to keep in mind how many picks the Skins keep in Rounds 1-4. Because the Skins coaching staff needs bona-fide talent to replace the current players who are second tier/journeyman level, or maybe even backups on other teams.

The Skins DO need to draft a QB this year -- at least to start the development process. If the QB winds up being selected using the second pick in the draft, okay -- as long as obtaining that pick doesn't gut the top rounds of the 2012 and 2013 draft. Because there are too many needs at ....WR. CB, S, RT, C, ILB, G, and NT (...and if things go badly, possibly LT, TEs, and RB.)

[MartinC]

On a related note I want to apologize for the silence since December on SOW. In December my wife's grandmother passed away we moved to a new house and found out my wife was pregnant only to find out on Christmas Eve that we lost the baby. The past two months have been a nightmare due to some complications in the miscarriage. Look for us to be back stronger than ever once the Superbowl is over and we jump head first into the offseason should be a ton of fun! We are all pretty stoked to be working on this again.

My sincere condolences to you and your wife. I have 3 kids and I can't conceive of how I would have felt or coped in your circumstances. A crum of comfort for you: one of my very best friends and his wife went through 2 miscarriages but now have two great kids - there is light ahead.

[SWFLSkins]

QB - RG - RT - CB - WR - ILB (depth).

Honestly, I'd be very happy if we came away from this draft with RGIII/Luck, and a couple of good OL prospects. We could target a CB/WR in free agency.

I am with you, I just don't see WR as the number two need, I see OL, corner and safety as higher priority right now. We have some interesting players at WR and I think a good QB can help them develop.

[Chump Bailey]

I think if the Browns want RG then we can simply forgot about him. What most folks are interested in is seeing what becomes of the Peyton situation. which will unfold soon. Place me solidly in the camp of wanting him if he can go, drafting Tannehill, and keeping our picks from which we continue to build the foundation upon.

[MusicCitySkin]

All the best, rd. I lost my grandfather, mother, and grandmother in 2011, so I definitely feel your pain in losing loved ones.

In order of importance: QB, WR, RT, CB, S, NT, OG, C, ILB, DL

[pjfootballer]

Consequently, it's concerning when trade scenarios are tossed around suggesting the Skins give up this year's 1st, 2nd and next years 1st, 2nd, and 3rd to the Rams to guarantee the right to select a possible franchise QB. It appears that the Skins needs are still numerous enough that 'Best Possible Athlete' approach is probably going to fill a position of need and may be the way to go in this draft. This is year three of the project to repair decades of Vinny'isms.

Sure the Skins need a top-tier QB -- but they need marquee talent at a lot of other spots as well. Unless the Front Office engages in a lot of free agency acquisitions (and that's always a mixed bag of results). many of these are going to have to be addressed through the draft. So when people point out how many picks the Skins have and how a big trade still leaves lots of picks -- it might be better to keep in mind how many picks the Skins keep in Rounds 1-4. Because the Skins coaching staff needs bona-fide talent to replace the current players who are second tier/journeyman level, or maybe even backups on other teams.

The Skins DO need to draft a QB this year -- at least to start the development process. If the QB winds up being selected using the second pick in the draft, okay -- as long as obtaining that pick doesn't gut the top rounds of the 2012 and 2013 draft. Because there are too many needs at ....WR. CB, S, RT, C, ILB, G, and NT (...and if things go badly, possibly LT, TEs, and RB.)

I tried not to quote the whole thing, but we've gone 20 years without a franchise QB to lead this team. I don't want another 2nd round project. The one thing you left out is, even if we do give up picks, Mike and Bruce have found a way to recoupe the picks. They, unlike Vinny, are able to trade up and down if they need to. Also, we had a limited free ageny period last season and they did a good job of not only finding free agents that were young (under 28), but guys who wouldn't hamper the cap and actually fit the system. I feel like we'll have another "smart" class of free agent signings by Bruce and Mike, something Vinny wouldn't/couldn't do. Funny that you want to "develop" a 2nd round QB, but you aren't willing to "develop" at other positions like WR or OL. Not every pick has to be a 1st rounder. I think with the type of players Mike and Bruce choose in the draft (team captains) it doesn't matter what round they are in. With that said, we've tried to develop QBs from other rounds, so it's time to get a top 5 player at that position.

[grhqofb5]

In the past 18 years, the Redskins have had attempted to solve their quarterback issues in just about every possible way, post Rypien. A brief history:

(1) 1994: Draft franchise quarterback, Heath Shuler. Acquire veteren (Friez) to start until Shuler is ready. Draft late round project (Frerotte). Result- Shuler is a complete bust, but it takes Redskins three years to determine that. Frerotte looks like Johnny Unitas in comparison, it takes Redskins two additional years to figure out he's more like Johnny Utah.

(2) 1998: Trent Green. Forced into the starting slot due to injury, performs very well despite putrid overall team performance. Result: JKC dies, no one is manning the wheel, Green walks in free agency, takes a pit stop in St. Louis before becoming a pro bowler in Kansas City.

(3) 1999: Sign free agent veteren Brad Johnson (borderline pro bowl material): Johnson has pro bowl season, sets team passing records, etc. Offseason rolls around, Snyder signs Jeff George, Johnson has a cold stretch, George steps in at insistence of Snyder, hilarity ensues. Result: Johnson walks, but leads Bucaneers to super bowl victory 2 years later.

(4) 2001: Jeff George/Tony Banks: Snyder wants George, so he gets what he wants. George throws one completely unbelievable TD pass across his body to the opposite end of the endzone (maybe that was 2000). Snyder feels vindicated. George flops. But Banks is there to rescue us. After all, he's still relatively young, has a great arm, and was on a super bowl winning team the previous year (and actually started half the games too). So, still somewhat young, potential laden guy ready to break through arrives. But transformation never happens. Result: Banks and George are gone, but there's hope on the horizon because we're finally going to handle this situation the "right way."....

(5) 2002-2003: Patrick Ramsey. 1st round (granted, later first round), but he has all the tools to succeed, combined with a new coach who loves to pitch it around. Two strong college quarterbacks brought in to hold the reigns until he's ready to take over. Who better to learn from than Matthews and Wuerffel? Result: The Ramsey "chuck and duck" era begins. The hard part about evaluating him is that he actually had potential, but it was beaten out of him. Who knows, he could still be here if surrounded by the correct personnel. Alas...

(6) 2004: Mark Brunell: Successful vertern, pro bowler, still got juice in the tank. Will protect the ball, manage the offense. Result: Managed to suck completely in 2004, but somehow ended up starting over Ramsey. Had a decent (though ultimately misleading) year in 2005, enough to fool Gibbs into starting him in 2006. Result: Took the Gibbs II regime and steered it to the bottom of the ocean.

(7) 2005-09: Jason Campbell: Drafting a rookie, first round, got a steal because he shouldn't have fallen that far, but we made the move to get him. Genius. Gonna finally do it right, and didn't have to waste a high first round pick on one of those franchise type deals like Shuler again.... Result: Never reaches his potential, due in large part to the constant instability of the team's offensive philosophy. Had his chances though, but never seized control. Would have been a Brad Johnson under better circumstances. Instead ended up being a Raider.

(8) 2010: Donovan McNabb: Just like Brunell, but gotta be better, right? Not just a former pro bowler, but a future hall of famer coming off a very good season (no like Brunell who was shelved for a younger prospect before we picked him up). And those Eagles, what a nice bunch of guys, giving him to us even though we're in the same division. They must really like him to want to see him at least two times a year for the next five years.... Result: Good for the first 5 minutes, then things fall apart quickly. Was he too dumb, lazy, arrogant, unwilling to change?? Doesn't jive with his history in Philadephia. But Shannahans quickly become cool to him. Give Shanny credit for cutting ties and not letting this thing linger, ala Brunnel (maybe Shanny saw how one bad decision at this position could define a coach's entire regime).

(9) 2011: Grossman/Beck: Again, like Banks (sort of), both guys just needed a chance, right? After all who didn't think that John Beck was a diamond in the rough (except 31 other NFL teams, 4 UFL teams, 10 Canadian teams, and Madden 2011). We go wtih the vet, who never got a fair shake in Chicago. Result: The carasoul continues, Grossman is benched, then Beck shows everyone why a 30 year old rarely used quarterback is well, a 30 year old rarely used quarterback, Grossman comes back, show some moxie, but also show the opposing team the ball far too often. Result: Looking to the future, again.

So, to sum it up: 2 former pro bowl, borderline HOFers (well, maybe not Brunell), 2 late first rounds "steals," one first round franchiser, one late round gem, 3 he's got hidden talent that no one else can see but me(ers), one he's damn good, but we'll let him walk because we can't get our act together, one he's damn good, but not as good as Jeff George, and then of course, one actual Jeff George. Throw in a Hostetler too while we're at it, and that's pretty much the complete spectrum of possible NFL quarterbacks, except, of course, an actual franchise quarterback.

So, it' not a lack of effort we're dealing with here. It's the ghost of Heath Shuler.

[Phat Hog]

Qb, cb, ol, lb

[grhqofb5]

---------- Post added February-2nd-2012 at 12:04 PM ----------

oops.... sorry.

[skinzwiz]

I think the Redskins should just focus on offense for the draft, especially if they are going to have to lose picks to get Griffin. I believe the fastest pace of improvement would be to transform this offense. The defense has needs, but showed it can hold its own, especially if the offense can stay on the field to keep the D from getting tired. That can happen with Griffin, a playmaker WR, some added protection and possibly more playmakers at RB and WR.

Then next year, focus on defense. There are a lot of quality defensive options next year.

[Diesel Hog]

Thanks for depressing me grhqofb5! :cry:

Makes me want to :chug:

[pjfootballer]

I think the Redskins should just focus on offense for the draft, especially if they are going to have to lose picks to get Griffin. I believe the fastest pace of improvement would be to transform this offense. The defense has needs, but showed it can hold its own, especially if the offense can stay on the field to keep the D from getting tired. That can happen with Griffin, a playmaker WR, some added protection and possibly more playmakers at RB and WR.

Then next year, focus on defense. There are a lot of quality defensive options next year.

Not to mention that the FO is actually smart when it comes to Free Agency. We can get good, young players at a good price. Cofield, Wilson, Bowen, Otagwe, Hightower (trade), Gaffney (trade) were all under 30, except Gaffney, OJ was not under 28, but the rest of them are and all are signed to cap friendly deals. We can get good, young players in FA also, not just the draft. This isn't Vinny signing 34 year olds to 5 year 50 million dollar contracts.

[wildbill1952]

QB, RT, WR, CB, RG, C.

QB bears no further discussion, just a question of what we should pay to get the number 2 pick. But once you get QB, it's more important to protect him in his first year than it is to give him targets to shoot at. Finding a RT who could move to the left side if Williams got hurt or stoned would be a premium, but you have to keep Brown for depth.

WR is obvious unless Shanny thinks Hankerson might be a keeper, and if you passed on wide receiver to find a decent cornerback, I couldn't fault him. But after that, the need is still on the offensive line. I felt the difference between the need for right guard and center to be very small, but both could use an upgrade for both pass protection and the running game. Montgomery is an able center, but it would be nice to upgrade the talent level - a lot.

[grhqofb5]

Thanks for depressing me grhqofb5! :cry:

Makes me want to :chug:

It's a long, sad story. I don't really know what my point is, but here's what it probably is-- there's at least some bad luck/misfortune involved, which means that the team should not be discouraged from trying the same method again. I'm all for trading a future 1st to get a franchise quarterback, and I believe that Heath Shuler's ghost has really, at least to a degree, discouraged the Redskins from taking a QB high in the 1st round since his epic failure. But we have to remember, Heath Shuler wasn't going to succeed anywhere other than in college. It's not as if he didn't have his chance in the NFL. Griffin appears to be a different animal.

[Wyvern]

...The one thing you left out is, even if we do give up picks, Mike and Bruce have found a way to recoupe the picks. They, unlike Vinny, are able to trade up and down if they need to.

Trading down is a llittle more easy than trading up. By trading down in the 2011 draft, Shanahan and Allen accumulated a lot more picks, but then again Shanahan/Allen had to turn around and give up several 5th round picks simply to get into the 4th round for Helu. Now, If the Skins gave up a bunch of 1st round, 2nd round, and 3rd round picks for the right to pick 2nd overall-- trading up to regain those lost 1st or 2nd rounderss would probably require Shanahan/Allen give up most of their lower round picks.

Funny that you want to "develop" a 2nd round QB, but you aren't willing to "develop" at other positions like WR or OL. Not every pick has to be a 1st rounder.

I don't believe I mentioned the second round -- the only time I used the word 'second' was to say I'd be okay with if the QB we picked to start developing resulted from the Skins getting the second overall pick of the draft --BUT just as long it didn't involve gutting the Skins supply of early round (Rounds 1-4) draftpicks of the 2012 and 2013 draft. I don't want to give away too many early round picks to get the #2 overall pick for any player, because I feel the team is still in rebuilding mode and needs slots of early round picks to select BPA for their many needs.

If Griffin III is rated that highly by Shanahan/Allen --then I can see how an "uber-talented QBs a rare enough skill-set worth trading up for. But not at all costs . . . especially for a team that is still in early stages of rebuilding. I suspect that Shanahan/Allen have a backup selection for QB, should the bidding get too high. And make no mistake, I strongly feel they need to find a good QB this year, because the time it takes to develop a QB is somewhat long. Longer than a WR, and definitely longer than an O-linemen.

I wouldn't want to trade up for a lineman or a WR -- I think the Skins scouting department can find excellent quality given the opportunity to be drafting more in the Rounds 1-4, rather than 5-7.

Not every pick has to be a 1st rounder.

Agreed. But the franchise should avoid depleting its supply of picks in Rounds 1-4, because the players you get in those rounds generally tend to be better than players found in rounds 5-7. That was my main point -- we need to keep early round picks to avoid over-reliance on the Scouting departments finding more 'team captain' types the Skins tend to pick up as 'gems in the rough' sometime during the 6th round.

...we've tried to develop QBs from other rounds, so it's time to get a top 5 player at that position.

Even under BPA -- The sixth pick overall should get you a really good QB, the sixth pick in the second round would probably still get you a decent QB. Then again, under BPA, a more highly regarded candidate at another position of need could be better value than the third overall QB taken in the draft. Those are judgement calls I won't be making. I just would prefer to have my cake and eat it too -- get a good QB, a good WR, Good linemenfrom the early rounds, before the scouts have to go digging around in the lower rounds for that 'gem in the rough.'

QB is a big enough need to start working on, that I think it's worth the exception of trading up for -- even during a rebuilding phase when more early round draft-picks are better than fewer early-round draft picks the Skins will need to go after BPA. I suspect it's going to take 2 years longer, to upgrade this franchise to a truly competitive level, so I expect Shanahan/Allen probably might stash a first round QB to develop him. So maybe with two NFL preseasons under his belt, maybe we'd find out if this truly was a 'franchise QB'. But we'd also have some Pro-Bowl talent at more positions, even if the QB turns out to be average.

Bottom line: I think we want the same thing -- I'm just not as willing to go 'all in' on Griffin III -- at least not until I get a better sense of how he stacks up at the combine.

[pjfootballer]

Believe me Wyvern, all your points are valid and I'm not willing to "mortgage the farm" for 1 player, however, we've ignored the position for 20 years so I think this year it the year to get a "top flight" QB and not settle for a good or developemental QB.

I think the reason why this subject is so contentiuos is because we are basing our wants on the draft only, when we haven't even got to free agency. I think we'll have a clearer understanding of positions of need by the time the draft rolls around. I think the FO will be smart again in FA getting guys under 28, cap friendly contracts and guys that fit the system (Cofield, Bowen, Hightower, Gaffney-trades).

And I understand trading down is easier than trading up, but I could sacrifice a couple of picks at the top for a stud player behind center. We have 18 picks in the next 2 drafts and that doesn't even count any comp picks we may be eligible to receive. We could possibly have over 20 picks the next 2 drafts. And I don't want to trade up for any position at this point except QB.

I don't want to deplete all of our early round picks, but I'm willing to give up some. If the scouting department continues to find this mid to late round gems, so be it. That is an advantage to us over other teams. It doesn't matter what round the players come from, so as long as they can play. While I don't think we are ready for a playoff spot or to contend for a SB, I feel the roster is a little further along than Redskin fans give credit for. We still have alot of issues, some holes to fill, but with a smart dip into free agency and another smart draft, I feel this team can at least go on the field and compete with anyone. They already proved it last year against some good teams (NYG, Dallas twice, Philly once, New England, NYJ for 3 quarters and even SF).

Having the 6th pick puts us out of the picture for an elite QB at this point with Barkley and Jones staying in school. Jones isn't even considered elite at this point. We would have to go in another direction and while it would be great to get a Blackmon, Claiborne or Reiff, the biggest impact that we need is behind center. I'm not sure BPA works at our position at this point.

In a QB driven league like it is now, we just can't keep "getting by" with the guys we've put under center. This isn't 1980, where you could ride the Hogs and put Jay Schroeder behind center. We need elite at that position and the only 2 available elite QBs in this draft is Luck and Griffin. I know some people like to build the team first and then get a QB. I'm the opposite. I say grab your guy first and then put the pieces around him. We'd still have enough picks to put the pieces around him even after trading some away. And for the record, I'd love to have Luck over Griffin, but I'll take either at this point.

One more thing. If the price is too high, I'd be willing to back off. As long as the compensation/asking price by the Rams is fair, I'd be for it. Then again, Vinny isn't here giving away the farm, so I trust ShanAllen will get good value in a trade like they did last year.

[seantaylor=god]

One more thing. If the price is too high, I'd be willing to back off. As long as the compensation/asking price by the Rams is fair, I'd be for it. Then again, Vinny isn't here giving away the farm, so I trust ShanAllen will get good value in a trade like they did last year.

Great post. I think Shanahan's relationship with Fisher makes it likely we have a chance to match an offer from the Browns, Dolphins, etc. If we don't go all in for the pick, we calculated that the price wasn't worth it.

I also think Laron Landry could be in play in a franchise-trade deal to the Rams to reunite with Gregg Williams. Landry started for him as a rookie, which even ST didn't immediately do.

[pjfootballer]

Not sure how we could trade Landry if he isn't under contract, unless we tagged him. Is that correct? I know you can't trade a player not under contract.

[longball]

I would say it is imperative that we draft::: an Owner