Can't see the Forest Through the Trees (People advocating the neglecting of the trenches)

[KDawg]

It's a theme I'm seeing more and more around here, and I have to admit, it's somewhat disconcerting. People are rightfully advocating the drafting of a QB. I agree with that as I believe QB, OL and DL are the starting points for any team, and once those positions are filled with reasonable talent, you can move elsewhere.

But the next spots people want shored up are completely baffling to me. I see people wanting us to draft Trent Richardson, LeMichael James, Justin Blackmon, etc, etc, etc over linemen. Now, let me say this, Richardson and Blackmon are outstanding talents. Talents that, for all intents and purposes, would be an amazing luxury to have on this team. They are phenominal football players, so this isn't a knock on any of them. Many of the people who advocate drafting them are the same ones that think we're going to pull Ben Grubbs (Guard) and Carl Nicks (Guard) in free agency.

Let me be the first to say, as an OL guy, I'd be so excited with that free agency haul that I'd be on the verge of jumping up and down and throwing rose petals in the street while singing "Mary had a Little Lamb" at the top of my lungs and I'd be doing it sans clothing. If that were to happen, after quarterback, I'd be okay with a total BPA draft.

But what are the chances of actually landing the both of them?

It's extremely early, and we have a lot of time before the draft and a lot of stuff to clear up before we really know our strategy.

To Do List:

1) Finish the season - See where our draft pick will be

2) Formulate a draft board - Where does each player fall on our board

3) Negotiate with our own free agents - Fred Davis, Laron Landry, Will Montgomery, Kory Lichtensteiger, Rocky McIntosh, Rex Grossman, Kedric Golston, Adam Carriker among others are all free agents. I don't advocate resigning all of these guys, but some of them are key to a draft plan.

4) Negotiate with free agents around the league - This is where we look at the popular FA choices: Matt Flynn, Paul Soliai, Ben Grubbs, Carl Nicks, Dwayne Bowe (again, I don't necessarily like all these guys, just names I've seen appear on the forums quite often).

5) Draft

There's a TON of steps between now and the draft and what's a need now may become unneccessary once we're closer to draft time. A position that isn't a need now may become a need closer to draft time. We really have no way of knowing.

However, operating on a "what we have right now, at the moment" scale, how can anyone not believe we need offensive line help before we address any of the peripheral positions? Trent Richardson and Justin Blackmon are going to be studs in this league, and if we were to get an amazing FA haul, they'd be real assets to this team. But until our quarterback and line situation are resolved, they are a near complete non-entity as far as I'm concerned.

I like to look at it like this:

If I were starting an expansion team, what areas would I address first on my team... And for me its simple: Quarterback, offensive line, defensive line, MLB, one cover corner (and in that order) and then BPA at the rest of the positions.

There is a larger picture, its time to understand that a better line makes mediocre "skill" players look remarkably better.

[MassSkinsFan]

If what we're hearing about building D first then O is true, I'd like to think we'll see something a lot like what you're advocating here.

Given the injuries and OL shuffling we've seen this year our FO must know that obtaining starting OL and a bit more OL depth have to be huge priorities, in addition to a standout QB. I know people are itching for a turnaround but it's obvious this mess is going to take a while to fix, so why not do it the right way?

I have a feeling that's the goal, but how we get there may be a bit odd or surprising, at least that's what I suspect.

[KDawg]

If what we're hearing about building D first then O is true, I'd like to think we'll see something a lot like what you're advocating here.

Given the injuries and OL shuffling we've seen this year our FO must know that obtaining starting OL and a bit more OL depth have to be huge priorities, in addition to a standout QB. I know people are itching for a turnaround but it's obvious this mess is going to take a while to fix, so why not do it the right way?

I have a feeling that's the goal, but how we get there may be a bit odd or surprising, at least that's what I suspect.

You would hope this is the case.

My guess, is, we'll get a few replies in here saying, "Well, Trent Richardson IS good enough to make the line look better than it is" or "Justin Blackmon is a game changer on the outside". And again, while I agree that those two are supremely talented, Blackmon can't do anything on the outside if we don't have anyone to get him the ball... Or have enough protection to get the ball out and to the receiver. Richardson can't break tackles in the backfield when entire fronts are closing down on him.

Build from the trenches out. A better line makes everyone else better.

[GWinSkins83]

I'm just going to say this most of Oline that get drafted high either have unbelieve measures Tyron Smith and Trent Williams and the others are Unbelievable Technicians Jake Long and Okung. Now in between those are technicians that are really good but doesn't have the measurables that are highly touted. And their are the really good measurables that are very raw. Now Oline are the second most important key to the offense but it doesn't have to be one of the first position to be invested in. This is what I'm trying to say there is a Oline that is raw but has the power to pancake the best dlinemen and the quickness that can get to the second level but he is not great in his technic. Theres alot of them that are in the draft where you can get them in the 3rd and 4th round. But a Alshon Jefferey that is 6'4 230 with great hands, a great vertical, and tough to bring down by a DB you can't teach that. That is god's gift. Those type of players just don't come around alot. Another Trent Richardson a 5'10 220 all muscle RB that benches 500 lbs and squads 800 pounds, that runs a 4.4, that is shifty, explosive, elite vision, tough never slows down or rarely comes out the game, that can catch, that blocks, and breaks numberous of tackles and still never losing speed can not be taught. That is just god given gift's. You just don't see alot of Trent Richardson's coming around every draft. Just saying. I know it is essential we build the best Oline that we can. But it is also essential to build the best set of weapons possible for our QB.

[KDawg]

Not trying to be offensive, but I wish you'd format your posts a bit better. You have some interesting thoughts, GWin, but sometimes they all blend together in that giant block of text.

As far as the point, I think a good QB and a good line will make our current weapons look a ton better. Moreso than bringing in new weapons and not addressing the OL.

I don't disagree that bringing in those guys would help on a team with the QB/OL in place. But QB/OL has to be priority one. The rest is luxury.

[Cen Tex Skins]

While I agree building the Oline is imperative, can we do it through FA and the draft? If so I wouldn't be opposed to taking a WR or RB in second.We have to build Oline or we don't stand a Chance.Are a couple 3rd,4th or 5th round Olinemen going to be enough to be considered an upgrade? I think Shanny can take care of our running game through late rd flyers and we have youth at WR.My thinking is draft Oline rd 2-4 and pick up a FA or two also.

[GWinSkins83]

Not trying to be offensive, but I wish you'd format your posts a bit better. You have some interesting thoughts, GWin, but sometimes they all blend together in that giant block of text.

As far as the point, I think a good QB and a good line will make our current weapons look a ton better. Moreso than bringing in new weapons and not addressing the OL.

I don't disagree that bringing in those guys would help on a team with the QB/OL in place. But QB/OL has to be priority one. The rest is luxury.

Ok I'll try to get better at that. But you miss my point I guess with the block text. I'm not saying neglect the line. In the 3rd and 4th and 6th round I think you can get two starters and depth out of that.

Is there that big of a difference from DeCastro and Zeilter? Only thing is different is one is projected to go in the 1st round and the other is projected to go in the 3rd. But Zeilter have gone against the better competition out of the two and showed he can get it done against prospects that are being projected to go in the first 2 rounds.

[SirClintonPortis]

Oline is a necessity, yes, but when do you see teams draft anything but LTs in the early first found and sometimes a center in the late 1st round? Yes, I know Tyron Smith was a RT, but he had a great resume and thus "earned" the draft position. The key to drafting well is to pick what will actually stick. A QB or WR that is "hit" on the first round can stick around for 7 years or whatever and then give you time to build the OL in the other rounds of the draft and FA. But it all depends on the prospects and how they grade out.

[GWinSkins83]

I'm going to also add is that Barrett Jones from Alabama should be now be talked about a top ten pick just like Martin from Stanford and Kalil of USC. He is now projected to go in the second by some and later in others.

He perform well vs LSU DEs on a sprain ankle. LSU DE is by far the best competition Kalil or Martin have ever faced. Jones have perform on the same level as these prospects too throughout the year.

[sportjunkie07]

i think our opening day oline was capable. add in good qb play and it gets even better.

as much as id like to add more playmakers though, our depth at oline is horrible, and we will probably need a starting left guard for next year.

a good thing about the ZBS is that not many teams run it, so in theory, it should be easier too upgrade oline positions and we should be able to find great fits in the 3 rounds and later.

imo, we will still have the ability to grab a playmaker in the early 2nd, while simultaneously upgrading the oline in later rounds. though, i think id pass up on a playmaker or olineman in the 2nd in lieu of a future replacement (Burfict, Te'o, Kuechly, Hightower) for Fletcher.

Not trying to be offensive, but I wish you'd format your posts a bit better. You have some interesting thoughts, GWin, but sometimes they all blend together in that giant block of text.

i agree.

[KDawg]

While I agree building the Oline is imperative, can we do it through FA and the draft? If so I wouldn't be opposed to taking a WR or RB in second.We have to build Oline or we don't stand a Chance.Are a couple 3rd,4th or 5th round Olinemen going to be enough to be considered an upgrade? I think Shanny can take care of our running game through late rd flyers and we have youth at WR.My thinking is draft Oline rd 2-4 and pick up a FA or two also.

I talked about that in the OP. You can, but we have no idea where we'll be at that point. it's all a guessing game, so right now everyone has to operate on the "we have what we have now" if we're going to have these conversations. But there are a ton of question marks. Lichtensteiger's injury may make him a pure backup, at best. Or he may bounce back. Montgomery is a free agent, so we may even need a center. I don't disagree with your overall idea, you're advocating addressing the line through a different strategy than I am. That's okay. I don't necessarily agree that the 4th or 5th round is the best place to look for line help, but I do agree with your overall message.

The last line you posted, "My thinking is draft Oline rd 2-4 and pick up a FA or two also" is dead on the money for me. 100% agreed there.

Ok I'll try to get better at that. But you miss my point I guess with the block text. I'm not saying neglect the line. In the 3rd and 4th and 6th round I think you can get two starters and depth out of that.

I understand that. I just don't think we should be addressing it in that order. But make no mistake, I understand you're not advocating passing on OL help. That point isn't lost on me

Oline is a necessity, yes, but when do you see teams draft anything but LTs in the early first found and sometimes a center in the late 1st round? Yes, I know Tyron Smith was a RT, but he had a great resume and thus "earned" the draft position. The key to drafting well is to pick what will actually stick. A QB or WR that is "hit" on the first round can stick around for 7 years or whatever and then give you time to build the OL in the other rounds of the draft and FA. But it all depends on the prospects and how they grade out.

That was kind of the point of the OP, and for the most part I agree with you. But, just because guards aren't typically drafted in the first doesn't mean they can't be or shouldn't be. I think this is what you meant with the last line "But it all depends on the prospects and how they grade out". Agreed there.

[KingGibbs]

I don't know Dawg. It's a deep, deep forest. I've always been an advocate of trenches first, but with the cap sapce and draft picks we have we should be able to address those areas. That being said, we need a QB first and foremost IMO. It's the one thing we've been missing.

[#98QBKiller]

That being said, we need a QB first and foremost IMO. It's the one thing we've been missing.

I think 90 something percent of ES is on the same page as this. QB first and foremost. After that IMO, though I do think we need to really address the OL.

[KDawg]

I don't know Dawg. It's a deep, deep forest. I've always been an advocate of trenches first, but with the cap sapce and draft picks we have we should be able to address those areas. That being said, we need a QB first and foremost IMO. It's the one thing we've been missing.

What alot of people don't realize, when speaking about cap space, is how many free agents we actually have on our roster. There are a ton. And some are going to demand larger contracts. Now, we may be restructuring some or whatever, but we really have no way of knowing what kind of cap space we have until this cloudy picture starts to at least get to standard definition standards...

Redskin free agents (from rotoworld):

Adam Carriker

Tashard Choice

Fred Davis

Graham Gano

Kedric Golston

Rex Grossman

Tim Hightower

Laron Landry

Kory Lichtensteiger

Rocky McIntosh

Will Montgomery

Byron Westbrook (RFA)

My feelings on each of these guys is for a different thread. But I know a lot advocate resigning Landry, which is going to cost a bit. Hightower will be a modest deal, but will cost us, Lichtensteiger's price tag should go down with injury, Monty is going to be a decent contract, but not ground breaking... Fred Davis is going to cost quite a bit. Gano, if we want to keep him, will be a mediocre kicker salary... Carriker will cost some change as well. Plus any FAs we bring in. We don't have infinite cash. We have space now, but there's still a lot to be addressed.

The major positive is the wage scale for rookies, that could help quite a bit. But we'll see.

[MassSkinsFan]

From everything I've heard, BPA is the way to go. However, when you have significant needs at so many positions, do you then modify the approach to factor in need when considering BPA (e.g. would you take a OT rated 8 of 10 over a WR rated 10 of 10 because your need is greater on OL)?

[authentic]

I regarding the skill positions on Offense, I would target ONE stud WR in either the draft or FA, draft a QB in the 1st round, if possible. Other wise i agree, we need to put alot of energy into solidifying the Oline, especially the right side.

[KDawg]

From everything I've heard, BPA is the way to go. However, when you have significant needs at so many positions, do you then modify the approach to factor in need when considering BPA (e.g. would you take a OT rated 8 of 10 over a WR rated 10 of 10 because your need is greater on OL)?

I trade back if that's the case and acquire more picks.

[PlayAction]

A QB that is perceived, on draft day, to be a top prospect is going to cost the Skins a first round draft pick. I hope the Skins use some of their higher remaining picks on the OL instead of waiting until the 6-7th rounds. Even Lichtensteiger was a 4th round pick and at the time he was projected much higher.

[KDawg]

A QB that is perceived, on draft day, to be a top prospect is going to cost the Skins a first round draft pick.

And that should absolutely be where we go with our first rounder as long as one of the big four (Luck, Griffin, Barkley, Tannehill) are still available.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

I just took a look at some of Justin Blackmon highlights and I must say that kid is the real deal.

I was just now looking at Sport Science and saw how he manuevers himself for the catch. He has all of the intangibles you want in a receiver if not better... not to mention, anytime you're in the mold of a Plaxico Burress type; that is definitely shedding light on the cause.

As GW stated above, athletes such as him do not come around very often. If I am the Redskins, I am dangling trade offers including Justin Blackmon and whichever QB I am seeking. It never hurts to make a team jump the gun on a player to enable us to get more draft picks while selecting our ideal QB.

[KDawg]

As GW stated above, athletes such as him do not come around very often. If I am the Redskins, I am dangling trade offers including Justin Blackmon and whichever QB I am seeking. It never hurts to make a team jump the gun on a player to enable us to get more draft picks while selecting our ideal QB.

This is 100% the approach I advocate. I do not advocate selecting him as long as we have holes at QB/OL

Although, if we have a QB we like available, you take him. No trade backs. Get him. That's the caveat for me.

[KingGibbs]

Adam Carriker-Hasn't impressed me much.

Tashard Choice-The guy hasn't even taken a snap with us yet.

Fred Davis-A priority

Graham Gano-Still a ? even though I would like to see him stay

Kedric Golston-Depth at most, but easily replaced

Rex Grossman-Plenty of QB's capable of throwing picks and fumbling.

Tim Hightower-Serious injury and will be huge ?.

Laron Landry-Do I really need to go there?

Kory Lichtensteiger-See Hightower.

Rocky McIntosh-He'll be gone IMO.

Will Montgomery-Need him back for depth if not starting.

Byron Westbrook (RFA)-Good ST's player.

Not many must have's on that list Dawg.

[bird_1972]

Lichtensteiger's injury may make him a pure backup, at best. Or he may bounce back. Montgomery is a free agent, so we may even need a center. I don't disagree with your overall idea, you're advocating addressing the line through a different strategy than I am. That's okay. I don't necessarily agree that the 4th or 5th round is the best place to look for line help, but I do agree with your overall message.

....

The last line you posted, "My thinking is draft Oline rd 2-4 and pick up a FA or two also" is dead on the money for me. 100% agreed there.

A few thoughts:

1) Any chance the team tries to get ahead start on resigning Montgomery, Davis, Fletch and Carricker? We can/should let LaRon walk and Lichtensteiger will be pending progress on his surgically-repaired knee.

2) My gut tells me we will be taking a defensive player somewhere in the first 4 rounds. I can't see Shanny doing OL rounds 2-4. I have to think he will grab a FA lineman and hopefully address RT and C/G with two first day (or I guess first two day) picks in the 2012 draft

3) If we grab a WR or RB before round 5-6, I'll be pissed.

4) Unfortunately, CB may be a bigger need than we assumed going into this season. I don't think we have the firepower, draft-wise to address this year, but wouldn't be surprised if we spent a pick on CB if a total stud fell to us in the 2nd/3rd round.

[KDawg]

Adam Carriker-Hasn't impressed me much.

Tashard Choice-The guy hasn't even taken a snap with us yet.

Fred Davis-A priority

Graham Gano-Still a ? even though I would like to see him stay

Kedric Golston-Depth at most, but easily replaced

Rex Grossman-Plenty of QB's capable of throwing picks and fumbling.

Tim Hightower-Serious injury and will be huge ?.

Laron Landry-Do I really need to go there?

Kory Lichtensteiger-See Hightower.

Rocky McIntosh-He'll be gone IMO.

Will Montgomery-Need him back for depth if not starting.

Byron Westbrook (RFA)-Good ST's player.

Not many must have's on that list Dawg.

To you, there may not be. The team is an entirely different story. And because you and I don't make the personnel decisions, we really have no idea what the front office and team are going to do.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

What alot of people don't realize, when speaking about cap space, is how many free agents we actually have on our roster. There are a ton. And some are going to demand larger contracts. Now, we may be restructuring some or whatever, but we really have no way of knowing what kind of cap space we have until this cloudy picture starts to at least get to standard definition standards...

Redskin free agents (from rotoworld):

Adam Carriker

Tashard Choice

Fred Davis

Graham Gano

Kedric Golston

Rex Grossman

Tim Hightower

Laron Landry

Kory Lichtensteiger

Rocky McIntosh

Will Montgomery

Byron Westbrook (RFA)

My feelings on each of these guys is for a different thread. But I know a lot advocate resigning Landry, which is going to cost a bit. Hightower will be a modest deal, but will cost us, Lichtensteiger's price tag should go down with injury, Monty is going to be a decent contract, but not ground breaking... Fred Davis is going to cost quite a bit. Gano, if we want to keep him, will be a mediocre kicker salary... Carriker will cost some change as well. Plus any FAs we bring in. We don't have infinite cash. We have space now, but there's still a lot to be addressed.

The major positive is the wage scale for rookies, that could help quite a bit. But we'll see.

Who's to say we're going to even consider resigning LaRon Landry? If I am the Redskins, I am considering Gomez for next season if he's ready and listening to trade offers for Landry. If this were Sean Taylor we were talking about here, then you'd have my ears.

Karriker will be had for chump change as well as Fred Davis... remember that even though Freddy had a decent first two games, his production has gone done due to this QB Carousel.