Poll: Which season under Shanahan will be our first as a legitimate contender for the Super Bowl?

[skinsandcooley]

I stopped and laughed at "Hightower is overpaid", and then I fell out of my chair at "Carlos Rogers is an elite corner".

We've got no core? No foundation? Really dude?

So you're saying you don't think Trent Williams, Terrence Austin, Perry Riley, Erik Cook, Ryan Kerrigan, Jarvis Jenkins, Leonard Hankerson, Niles Paul, Dejon Gomes, Roy Helu, and Chris Neild---all players Mike drafted, all young, all currently on a team that was the oldest in the league just a season ago---can't be part of a solid core? Kory Lichensteiger was our best linemen until he got hurt. Does that mean he can't be part of the core? Cofield and Bowen aren't? Hightower can't be? Rak isn't? D-Hall, Josh Wilson and Barnes can't be? Stop me when I quit naming people that are aged 27 or younger on this football team.

And no one could get anything out of 'Los. And he's not elite. There's only one elite corner in the league right now, and his name is Revis. Unless Los rents a time share on Revis Island, he won't sniff elite status.

It must be fun to be so football ignorant. It really must be.

Typical homer post. These are always the best. Here's an idea: try taking the tin foil off your head, it tends to make accepting reality easier.

My favorite part is your first line. Rebuttals that simply laugh at a claim are always the best. You know why? It means you have nothing to rely on besides your rose-colored glasses and denial of the truth. Tim Hightower overpaid? Damn right. This guy is not a good starter by ANY stretch of the imagination. Never has had a good year---not once. He constantly ranks near the bottom, if not last, in YPC. He is a solid short-yardage and role guy, but not more than that. And we gave up a 6th rounder for him (in addition to DL depth in Holliday). RBs are a dime a dozen and undeniably the easiest position to fill on a roster. We could have easily used that pick on someone else with the same production. Hell, Ryan Torain's year last year was better than any Hightower has ever had.

Your comment on Carlos Rogers is also based off of personal bias. Ya, he didn't like it here, didn't quite live up to his draft status, and that understandably left a lot of fans with some contempt for him. Obviously, you have not watched him play this year. It's beyond clear that you just don't like him and hate the idea of him succeeding elsewhere. Face it: Carlos is everything the niners thought they were getting in Nate Clements in 07 or so. Midway through the season, he already has set a personal best in interceptions, and is one of the best players on what is probably the NFLs best and most bad-ass defense. He doesn't get thrown at, makes plays, and tackles. I'm sorry that your desire for him to fail doesn't fall in line with reality. You also argue semantics. Ok, we'll say Revis is the only elite corner in the league. I'll say Carlos Rogers is the 2nd or 3rd best in the NFL, so call that whatever you want if that's not "elite".

You also make the logical fallacy of assuming every young player (by your definition, "those aged 27 or younger") are good, or fit into the future. DeAngelo Hall? Lol, he hasn't been good since what...like 06? Overpaid, average starter. A big liability and unreliable. Josh Wilson? Hell, he's so good that the god awful Seahawks let him walk. And their secondary stinks. He is fast, but was a big disappointment for them. Cofield sucks. That's why we can't stop the run. The Giants had the same problem with him, too.

Some of these guys have a bright future. Rak is already great. Williams is a bonehead who plays with no discipline but he has all the talent in the world and is effective. He will only get better, too. Kerrigan looks like a stud. But if the rest of those guys are our core....then....yikes. Just because Shanny drafted them doesn't mean they look good. Helu was way overdrafted and is the epitome of average joe. Not athletic, not strong, doesn't hold onto the ball. I guess he is good at catching Beck's dump-offs. Hankerson and Austin can't hold onto the ball either.

It just makes things especially frustrating when I see other coaches seem to get it. To go back to Jim Harbaugh again...in one year, he A) Has not traded away picks -- only players for them drafted a QB of the future (Kaepernick) C) Drafted the current overwhelming favorite for DROY (Aldon Smith). Not to mention a much better 4th round RB than ours in Kendall Hunter C) signed YOUNG, GOOD FA's for cheap. Donte Whitner, the saints center (Goodwin I think?), Braylon, and our own Carlos Rogers were for peanuts.

Yes, he inherited a much more talented roster with the niners, but it's frustrating to just sit back here and watch Shanny neglect to address QB, put family before the team, ship away draft picks, and make no smart moves in FA, while other coaches with much less experience put out a good product and develop talent more effectively. I am all for being patient and rebuilding, but I don't like where we are going, and we honestly have shown no improvement at all under him. It's a disaster...and his track record isn't even impressive, so I don't even know why people expect so much out of him. Denial of the truth, again, I suppose is the case.

[tex]

Only 5 head coaches have taken different teams to the big dance. None have won it all with two different teams. The odds are against Shanny on this one.

[darrelgreenie]

Poll: Which season under Shanahan will be our first as a legitimate contender for the Super Bowl?

Thoughts?

3 seasons after we draft a young QB worth building around.

or

Once they assemble a good OL that has depth that can produce a good running game and provide solid pass protection; coupled with at least a decent defense and a bona fide top 10-15 QB (via trade or FA)

[Chachie]

We can be a playoff-caliber team in 2013.

For fans of any team other than New England, Green Bay, or Pittsburgh (maybe Baltimore) to "expect" Lombardi Trophies in this era is counting on a longshot. I think we should just look to build a strong foundation and then hope we sustain general success for 5-7 years. That type of stretch is when a team has a shot at a Super Bowl. We'll never duplicate Gibbs' run in the 80s again. In fact, it pains me to say this but the odds are that we will never win another Super Bowl, especially under Dan Snyder.

[KCClybun]

Typical homer post. These are always the best. Here's an idea: try taking the tin foil off your head, it tends to make accepting reality easier.

My favorite part is your first line. Rebuttals that simply laugh at a claim are always the best. You know why? It means you have nothing to rely on besides your rose-colored glasses and denial of the truth. Tim Hightower overpaid? Damn right. This guy is not a good starter by ANY stretch of the imagination. Never has had a good year---not once. He constantly ranks near the bottom, if not last, in YPC. He is a solid short-yardage and role guy, but not more than that. And we gave up a 6th rounder for him (in addition to DL depth in Holliday). RBs are a dime a dozen and undeniably the easiest position to fill on a roster. We could have easily used that pick on someone else with the same production. Hell, Ryan Torain's year last year was better than any Hightower has ever had.

Tim Hightower was a 5th round draft pick in 2008 of the Cardinals. A FIFTH round pick working in the last year of his rookie deal is "overpaid". Vonnie was a good team guy who's not ever starting for the Cardinals, who has a whopping total of ZERO sacks this season. We gave up maybe a 5th or 6th rounder for him, but it didn't matter much because we had THREE EXTRA FIFTH round picks. Even if we did give up a 6th rounder for him, we've got two 5th round picks anyway, so what's the frakking difference?

You also make the logical fallacy of assuming every young player (by your definition, "those aged 27 or younger") are good, or fit into the future. DeAngelo Hall? Lol, he hasn't been good since what...like 06? Overpaid, average starter. A big liability and unreliable. Josh Wilson? Hell, he's so good that the god awful Seahawks let him walk. And their secondary stinks. He is fast, but was a big disappointment for them. Cofield sucks. That's why we can't stop the run. The Giants had the same problem with him, too.

You said we have no foundation. I named all the players we've added to our team in the last few seasons that I think are a solid foundation for a football team. And Cofield is why we can't stop the run? Really now? Yeah, the Giants and their 24th ranked run defense fixed all their problems when they got rid of Cofield. I mean they were only ranked 8th in run defense last season. That happened.

Some of these guys have a bright future. Rak is already great. Williams is a bonehead who plays with no discipline but he has all the talent in the world and is effective. He will only get better, too. Kerrigan looks like a stud. But if the rest of those guys are our core....then....yikes. Just because Shanny drafted them doesn't mean they look good. Helu was way overdrafted and is the epitome of average joe. Not athletic, not strong, doesn't hold onto the ball. I guess he is good at catching Beck's dump-offs. Hankerson and Austin can't hold onto the ball either.

It just makes things especially frustrating when I see other coaches seem to get it. To go back to Jim Harbaugh again...in one year, he A) Has not traded away picks -- only players for them drafted a QB of the future (Kaepernick) C) Drafted the current overwhelming favorite for DROY (Aldon Smith). Not to mention a much better 4th round RB than ours in Kendall Hunter C) signed YOUNG, GOOD FA's for cheap. Donte Whitner, the saints center (Goodwin I think?), Braylon, and our own Carlos Rogers were for peanuts.

Yes, he inherited a much more talented roster with the niners, but it's frustrating to just sit back here and watch Shanny neglect to address QB, put family before the team, ship away draft picks, and make no smart moves in FA, while other coaches with much less experience put out a good product and develop talent more effectively. I am all for being patient and rebuilding, but I don't like where we are going, and we honestly have shown no improvement at all under him. It's a disaster...and his track record isn't even impressive, so I don't even know why people expect so much out of him. Denial of the truth, again, I suppose is the case.

Way to gloss over the "he inherited a much more talented roster". The 49ers have three first round picks on their o-line, Frank Gore, Michael Crabtree, Vernon Davis, Patrick Willis...should I stop now? Kendall Hunter is running behind an offensive line that hasn't been ignored for the better part of a decade. I'll give Harbaugh credit for bringing them around and making them 7-1, but the Niners were no where near the crap organization we were. Period.

You wanted a core of players? I said we've got got a good core of players. It remains to be seen how they'll all turn out, but you can't say "I'm all for rebuilding" in one sentence and then essentially go on to talk about how you don't like the crappy part of rebuilding, and how only two of the players we've drafted in the are any good and the rest of the guys we drafted probably aren't going to turn out good in the next. If you don't regard anything we've done over the course of the last two seasons to be good for us, then prepare to be disappointed. For a while. The Niners didn't need to rebuild, they HAD their core of players. We're pretty much starting for scratch after decades of mismanagement.

"He put family first." How? He told Kyle Shanahan not to come here. He told him what to expect.

You don't want rebuilding. You want instant success. It's okay; that's a problem that's long plagued this fanbase. Speaking out of both sides of their mouth, saying they want rebuilding in one instant and then spinning around and being pissed because the rebuild didn't take like four and a half seconds. "Let's draft a bunch of players in a lockout shortened seasons, and I'll be completely unsatisfied if they don't come right and get us in the playoffs!"

Helu puts one football on the deck and it's "he's not athletic, not strong, can't hold on to the football."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5FROyxic64

Roy Helu hurdles his own guy for a 33 yard gain

Okay then, boss. Whatever helps you sleep on Sunday nights.

[NewCliche21]

1) Sorry, I meant to click 2014, so they should be tied at 83 right now.

2) NLC1054, dude, cut it out. Haven't you heard of the mercy rule in a debate?!

[bradboyd80]

I was kind of torn on this one, but went with 2014. I'd like to be a little more optimistic considering what the Bungles have done this year with a true #1 WR, rookie QB, and good defense. Our D is already good (though it can always use upgrades/depth), so I think with an offense-focused offseason, we have a chance of contending for the division title next year. However, I think we need another draft to add depth and fill a few more holes, and give the team time to gel together (2013). Then by 2014 we can have a real chance at making a run.

[Jumbo]

Typical homer post. These are always the best. Here's an idea: try taking the tin foil off your head, it tends to make accepting reality easier.

I'll refrain from saying "typical new guy acting out" post. Those are always the best."

Here's an idea: when you get back from your week off, try taking your foot out of your mouth, and see about figuring what to do to improve. It tends to make your chances at long-term survival better.

You are all new and shiny and already have a sizable attitude and a rule 5 violation and a temp ban on your record. Your insulting tone here and in other posts, so far aimed at solid posters making decent cases for their positions (as I believe you can too but I honestly don't see you doing it yet) leaves you holding the bag. So far in fact, you seem way more like a Beck fan than anything else, not that there's anything wrong with that of course, just giving you context about how your arguments present to a very knowledgeable football fan who's also been a Redskins fan for over 50 years. Now none of this has anything to do with whether I or anyone else agrees or disagrees with who about what, but it does have everything to do with how such things are best done within the rules and guidelines of the forum.

I suggest you read the rules carefully to get how we do ask the membership to do such things--for example, you can get all up and feisty and even harsh if merited by another poster's actual content. In this specific instance, NLC was within the lines well enough when making the assertion that your comments were football ignorant (anyone agreeing or disagreeing with him are immaterial), whereas your slams about "tin-foil hats" and "typical homer post" etc. were not (nor are they close to an accurate appraisal of him fwiw).

But in your 13 posts to date, I already notice that several of them involve butting heads in similar tone with several different established posters who gave you little reason to take the tone you seem to favor. We don't need to add any new guys who seem to want to make such antics their regular diet. We already have enough guys with tenure doing that now (until they do it once too often). So I suggest you slow your roll, and again, that you thoroughly read the rules when you return. And get to know your fellow posters better before throwing down in such impotent fashion the next time. Self-immolation is not a long-lived posting pattern on ES.