grego Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 No, he'd never be worth it because then we'd be 1 single injury away from being without 4 years worth of first round picks. Imagine 1 injury taking out Kerrigan/Orakpo/Williams/Landry. how are we doing with all of those 4, but no peyton manning type QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 what if he's as good as manning? is he still not worth it? You dont trade four first round picks on 'what if.' And even if by some miracle he did turn out to be Manning, he would be Manning without Ed James, Rob Morris, Reggie Wayne and Dwight Freeney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 You dont trade four first round picks on 'what if.' semantics. you know what i was saying. And even if by some miracle he did turn out to be Manning, he would be Manning without Ed James, Rob Morris, Reggie Wayne and Dwight Freeney. those players can be acquired. franchise QB's almost always have to be drafted. (in fact, we may already have those caliber players.... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Believe me, you've known me long enough to know that I'm not someone who has ever encouraged this team's willingness to win the offseason. I've never gotten behind mortgaging the future or cutting corners to try and do the "quick fix." I want this team to be a winner for more than one fluky season every few years and I absolutely believe that landing Luck would do just that. He's that much better than everyone else available.Wait until I post my new write-up. You're not going to speak to me for a while after that one. hehehe. Cheers. I'll never forget us talking about Luck back in August at the Tampa game. I was still hoping we would be tanking the season. We were both cautiously optimistic about 2011. Our worst nightmares came through with this team. Injuries+ineffective QB play. We could easily get shut out again this week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 semantics. you know what i was saying. You are saying Luck being the next Manning is a foregone conclusion. That's the ONLY way trading four picks for him is even remotely close to sane. I'm saying it's not a foregone conclusion, and even if it were getting him without the four guys drafted behind him: A four-time pro-bowl RB who led the team in rushing 6 of the next seven years, a MLB who started for the team for four of the next five years and played for the team for three more, a five-time pro-bowl WR who's been with the team for 11 years led the team in receptions for five of them, and a six-time pro-bowl three-time all-pro DE who's been with the team for ten years and racked up 98.5 sacks ... is not the way to build a team. Not unless you're a guy like Dan Snyder who's only interested in selling jerseys of the few stars on the team while filling the other 80% of the team with scrubs. those players can be acquired. That's Dan Snyder talking. I would have hoped that by now we'd have learned that's not true. franchise QB's almost always have to be drafted. That's not true either. However, even if it were, they don't have to all be named Luck. And no QB, not even Manning, has ever garnered four first round picks. Ever. ---------- Post added November-4th-2011 at 11:06 PM ---------- how are we doing with all of those 4, but no peyton manning type QB? We don't have all those four. Williams is out and Landry hasn't been 100% all season. And just those two injuries have been devastating. Or has our line play not dropped off since the opener? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konga2145 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 You are saying Luck being the next Manning is a foregone conclusion. That's the ONLY way trading four picks for him is even remotely close to sane. I'm saying it's not a foregone conclusion, and even if it were getting him without the four guys drafted behind him: A four-time pro-bowl RB who led the team in rushing 6 of the next seven years, a MLB who started for the team for four of the next five years and played for the team for three more, a five-time pro-bowl WR who's been with the team for 11 years led the team in receptions for five of them, and a six-time pro-bowl three-time all-pro DE who's been with the team for ten years and racked up 98.5 sacks ... is not the way to build a team. Not unless you're a guy like Dan Snyder who's only interested in selling jerseys of the few stars on the team while filling the other 80% of the team with scrubs. That's Dan Snyder talking. I would have hoped that by now we'd have learned that's not true. That's not true either. However, even if it were, they don't have to all be named Luck. And no QB, not even Manning, has ever garnered four first round picks. Ever. ---------- Post added November-4th-2011 at 11:06 PM ---------- We don't have all those four. Williams is out and Landry hasn't been 100% all season. And just those two injuries have been devastating. Or has our line play not dropped off since the opener? Beck is like a rookie hasn't played many games and played our last to with a shambled ol. guess everyones giving up on him and the season, i am not, Trent come back this week we beat niners than beat miami and seattle and be 6-4 then everyone happy again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Beck is like a rookie hasn't played many games and played our last to with a shambled ol. guess everyones giving up on him and the season, i am not, Trent come back this week we beat niners than beat miami and seattle and be 6-4 then everyone happy again Oh I think the season is over I just don't think suddenly deciding there's only one player in the entire world that can possibly help the team is the answer. It's hard to be patient after 20 years of wheel-spinning, but trying to repent for decades of overspending on failed quick-fixes by overspending even more on another quick-fix won't change our course. Not in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 how are we doing with all of those 4, but no peyton manning type QB? We'd be doing fine if we had some offense and it doesn't take 4 first round draft picks to get a Franchise QB. In fact NO TEAM IN NFL HISTORY has spent 4 first rounders on a single player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Beck is like a rookie hasn't played many games and played our last to with a shambled ol. guess everyones giving up on him and the season, i am not, Trent come back this week we beat niners than beat miami and seattle and be 6-4 then everyone happy again You skipped the Cowpukes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper 21 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Or we can just keep parading out the Grossmans, Freiszs, Shulers, Frerottes, Banks, Wherfuls, Campbells and Ramseys like we have the last 30 years. i forget were our superbowls won by HOF qbs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsnut1823 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 As always Murph your articles are well thought out. I did alot better reserving my emotion with the good start this year. I see your point on going all in for Luck. Only problem is....if we can't build depth and talent around him via the draft we will never really get to see his potential. He will end up a beatstick like the others.... We can still hope.... Hail! ---------- Post added November-5th-2011 at 07:09 AM ---------- No, he'd never be worth it because then we'd be 1 single injury away from being without 4 years worth of first round picks. Imagine 1 injury taking out Kerrigan/Orakpo/Williams/Landry. Absolutely great way of putting it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konga2145 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 As always Murph your articles are well thought out. I did alot better reserving my emotion with the good start this year. I see your point on going all in for Luck. Only problem is....if we can't build depth and talent around him via the draft we will never really get to see his potential. He will end up a beatstick like the others....We can still hope.... Hail! ---------- Post added November-5th-2011 at 07:09 AM ---------- Absolutely great way of putting it!!! Everyone giving up on poor Beck already, after 2 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Everyone giving up on poor Beck already, after 2 games Question: What do you see that makes you so confident/hopeful that he'll turn it around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konga2145 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Question:What do you see that makes you so confident/hopeful that he'll turn it around? Answer : When he is behind a uninjured line. What makes you think anyone else can come in here, esp. a rookie qb and do better with last weeks line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Answer : When he is behind a uninjured line. What makes you think anyone else can come in here, esp. a rookie qb and do better with last weeks line. I don't Your argument doesn't even make any sense. John Beck isn't a rookie. If we draft a QB during the offseason, the offensive line wouldn't even be starting the same players that were pegged as starters before the season began. John Beck won't suddenly turn into a good QB if all of the starters come back, that's pretty obvious. His issues, along with the offensive woes, run deeper than just the o-line, although they are a big part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konga2145 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I don'tYour argument doesn't even make any sense. John Beck isn't a rookie. If we draft a QB during the offseason, the offensive line wouldn't even be starting the same players that were pegged as starters before the season began. John Beck won't suddenly turn into a good QB if all of the starters come back, that's pretty obvious. His issues, along with the offensive woes, run deeper than just the o-line, although they are a big part of it. So your saying Shanny a fool and has no eye for talent , and the man, i know he is 30 has only played i 6 games, he deserves a shot when lines helthy. I think this whole board are fool of people that think we have all these offensive woes. I just feel the jury is still out . Were not an explosive offense, i know that, but still feel were average, when healthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 So your saying Shanny a fool and has no eye for talent Well, technically you could say that, since he staked his reputation on the two QB's before the season started, making himself "look" like a fool, although anyone could tell you that it looked like we were going to be in for a rough ride. Anyways, I never said that, and I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. We don't have good players. A lot of great coaches would look like fools with the players we have. Whether you are willing to admit that or not doesn't really matter, because it's obvious. , and the man, i know he is 30 has only played i 6 games, He's also been in the NFL for five years, and has been on three different teams. f anyone thought he was anything special, he would've gotten more opportunities before he arrived here. he deserves a shot when lines helthy. He has his shot, right now. I don't really think he'd be playing that better if the line was healthy anyways. Again, we aren't that talented of an offense as you would like to believe, and we haven't been for a long time I think this whole board are fool of people that think we have all these offensive woes. I'm not really sure why you think it's everyone else that's making innacurate claims. Haven't you been watching the games. Isn't painfully obvious that we do indeed suck on offense? I just feel the jury is still out . Were not an explosive offense, i know that, but still feel were average, when healthy Very few teams are healthy when it gets to a certain point in the season. Due to shoddy o-line play, subpar QB's, and lackluster receivers, we have been worse than average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konga2145 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Well, technically you could say that, since he staked his reputation on the two QB's before the season started, making himself "look" like a fool, although anyone could tell you that it looked like we were going to be in for a rough ride. Anyways, I never said that, and I'm not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. We don't have good players. A lot of great coaches would look like fools with the players we have. Whether you are willing to admit that or not doesn't really matter, because it's obvious. Guess only way I can prove might point is to wait and see, in a few weeks I think we will be either 7-4 or 6-5 which will be ahead of last years pace, He's also been in the NFL for five years, and has been on three different teams. f anyone thought he was anything special, he would've gotten more opportunities before he arrived here. He has his shot, right now. I don't really think he'd be playing that better if the line was healthy anyways. Again, we aren't that talented of an offense as you would like to believe, and we haven't been for a long time I'm not really sure why you think it's everyone else that's making innacurate claims. Haven't you been watching the games. Isn't painfully obvious that we do indeed suck on offense? Very few teams are healthy when it gets to a certain point in the season. Due to shoddy o-line play, subpar QB's, and lackluster receivers, we have been worse than average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 while i'd seriously consider 4 1st rounders for luck, with the potential crop of QB's coming out this year, i'd probably be happier with LJ, RG3, moore and all our picks. i think luck actually makes a very good QB class seem average by how promising he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konga2145 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 while i'd seriously consider 4 1st rounders for luck, with the potential crop of QB's coming out this year, i'd probably be happier with LJ, RG3, moore and all our picks. i think luck actually makes a very good QB class seem average by how promising he is. NO LUCK, Beck is our man ,go beck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 NO LUCK, Beck is our man ,go beck i'm all for giving beck more than one bad week to show what he can do, but if he doesnt look better than last week, i'll take my chances on any of the #s 2 thru 4 QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konga2145 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 i'm all for giving beck more than one bad week to show what he can do, but if he doesnt look better than last week, i'll take my chances on any of the #s 2 thru 4 QB's. Glad somebody is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsnut1823 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 :logo:Im good with your thoughts on all of this. By no means am i saying we should draft a first round qb talent this draft. Stating my case is simply...build up the team around the qb spot first. And depth! We have have no depth. When a starter falls the next guy typically is stuff on a rock. Talent and Shannys ability to identify it will happen. These type of changes don't occur through one draft. Take note that the model of depth and how you perform with it should be called out to the Packers of last year. Build and build...than go all in if the existing qp isn't working. Anyway i drove 300 mi from NY to see the game today...trust me id love to see Beck go for 300 and 4tds. Good luck Skins...and Hail!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Glad somebody is i'm with you that there is too much over reaction and blame going becks way after last week. he didnt have a good game, but, nobody else did either (outside of fletcher, who is the man). our line sucks, our WR's are the worst. beck needs to play better, the whole team needs to play better, the coaching staff needs to coach better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konga2145 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 i'm with you that there is too much over reaction and blame going becks way after last week. he didnt have a good game, but, nobody else did either (outside of fletcher, who is the man). our line sucks, our WR's are the worst. beck needs to play better, the whole team needs to play better, the coaching staff needs to coach better. Agreed but fans are acting like no team has ever been shut out before, I no the Bills D was suppose to be bad but all D's step it up sometimes, and that was bills time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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