Giants vs. Redskins Prediction Thread

[Tom [Giants fan]]

Ok, I think this board is great and you guys talk great football but this is getting a bit out of hand. You guys beat the Jets who proved last week they have no offense with Vinny in there. And you beat the Falcons who self destructed. Now, I'm willing to give the Redskins props because they showed a lot of heart the first two weeks which they haven't done in a long time. But, you guys are getting a bit carried away already. If this was midseason and the Redskins were 6-2 with the schedule they have coming up, than I would say be as ****y as you want. But I do not think that the two wins you produced warrants this kind of arrogance. You guys have been b!tch!ng and moaning at the lack of respect the Redskins have been given and you turn around and do the same thing to the Giants.

I am not saying the Redskins aren't and won't be a good football team this year but I think you should wait a little longer before getting this carried away.

Art,

I can't believe I am about to agree with an Eagles fan but, EL is right. Any team that plays error free football would probably win huge. Unless the other team plays error free as well. If the Giants and Redskins both play error free football, I do not see the Redskins in any way, shape or form "toasting" the Giants. I think these first two weeks have gone straight to some of your heads. We both know that no team plays completely error free football. Both teams will have their share of mistakes but they will probably even out. Here is where I think the best team will win which I still believe is the Giants.

Luke Petitgout is going to be playing which improves the Giants OLine tremendously from last week. I will admit that I am worried about Bober at tackle because it will only be his second game there and he has a lot of adjusting to do.

By the way, who lines up over Petitgout?

I am not trying to knock down what the Redskins have done so far but I think you guys are taking it a bit too far already. Think of what you would be saying to a Cowboys fan if they were going crazy because they were 2-0 had they beat the Falcons.

Well, we'll see after tomorrow. If the Redskins beat the Giants tomorrow I will start believing in them a lot more. But I'm not completely sold on them yet. Well, not for the NFC East division title that is. I think they will definitely compete for a wildcard spot.

I just have this feeling that once the Giants OLine starts playing better, they are going to be winning a lot of games. And I don't see it taking too long. But with Petitgout back, I think the Giants win this game.

[Woofer]

Tom,

Relax. Some of us have gotten a little carried away, but that comes from not having had anything to get excited about for such a long time. Hence some of the more outrageous predictions.

As I've said in other threads and on other boards (which I do not visit anymore), when two NFC east teams meet, it is difficult to predict the outcome. How many games in recent years have been decided by less than a touchdown? I haven't looked but I imagine a lot.

The rivalries are so intense, and sometimes players just play so far above themselves (a la' Quincy Carter last week) :paranoid: that you can throw the stats and the records out of the door and let them get run over by a truck.

If two evenly matched teams play error free football, what will make the difference in the game?

[Art]

Tom,

Let me reply within.

"Ok, I think this board is great and you guys talk great football but this getting a bit out of hand. You guys beat the Jets who proved last week they have no offense with Vinny in there."

The Jets had 387 yards of total offense with Vinny in there, which, if done weekly would make the Jets a Top 5 offense. The Jets did this against Miami. Miami, you know, has a pretty fair defense.

"And you beat the Falcons who self destructed."

How did the Falcons self destruct? Going 1 for 11 on third downs isn't self destruction. It's being stopped. Also, the Falcons beat the Cowboys. Who'd the Cowboys beat?

"Now, I'm willing to give the Redskins props because they showed a lot of heart the first two weeks which they haven't done in a long time. But, you guys are getting a bit carried away already. If this was midseason and the Redskins were 6-2 with the schedule they have coming up, than I would say be as ****y as you want."

It's got NOTHING to do with ****y Tom. We match up well with you. We did last year with less talent. We do now with more. And with your line demonstrably less strong, it just negates one area of relative weakness. If the Redskins play a relatively clean game, you have no hope. If the Giants play a relatively clean game, we do have hope. That's the difference. A difference born of very recent history.

"But I do not think that the two wins you produced warrants this kind of arrogance. You guys have been b!tch!ng and moaning at the lack of respect the Redskins have been given and you turn around and do the same thing to the Giants."

The Giants lost to the Cowboys. A game the Giants "could" have won, sure, but the Cowboys pretty well controlled the game. You have been pretty well pushed around on defense for two games. You've played two games. Even with Warner holding the ball for 10 seconds before taking a sack, it's not like you guys have looked overly respectable. No one doubts the strength of your skill players. You have GREAT skill players. But, the weakness along your offensive line is dramatic at this point and crushing to your chances until it improves.

"I am not saying the Redskins aren't and won't be a good football team this year but I think you should wait a little longer before getting this carried away."

There's no getting carried away here. We have the talent and ability beat you. We had that last year and didn't due to our mistakes. We know where we are and where we need to be. If we get where we need to be against you it's an easy game. If Ramsey has a regression day it'll be an easy game too. Just on your side.

"Art,

I can't believe I am about to agree with an Eagles fan but, EL is right. Any team that plays error free football would probably win huge."

And again, Tom, you played ERROR free football last year against this very Redskin team and you won by six and you ONLY won by six because we fumbled another 20-yard gain on a game closing drive. In fact we know for sure if you play a near error free game you don't just dominate us. So, not any team can play error free and win huge. Your Giants couldn't against a less talented Redskin team.

"Unless the other team plays error free as well. If the Giants and Redskins both play error free football, I do not see the Redskins in any way, shape or form "toasting" the Giants. I think these first two weeks have gone straight to some of your heads. We both know that no team plays completely error free football. Both teams will have their share of mistakes but they will probably even out. Here is where I think the best team will win which I still believe is the Giants. "

The Jets played nearly error free football. One penalty. No turnovers. They lost. If we play with one penalty and no turnovers against you, it doesn't matter WHAT you do. You're done. If you play with no turnovers, no sacks and a handful of penalties against us, we already know you can't blow us away.

"Luke Petitgout is going to be playing which improves the Giants OLine tremendously from last week. "

Agreed assuming he plays up to his abilities and he's not slowed by that back.

"I will admit that I am worried about Bober at tackle because it will only be his second game there and he has a lot of adjusting to do."

It's not that you are weak at the offensive line that should worry you Tom. It's that we don't have a defensive line that can generally generate much pass rush. That is an area if you had a strong line you could exploit. Your inability to exploit it doesn't mean we'll exploit your weaker area. It means it largely negates a big area you could have taken advantage of.

"By the way, who lines up over Petitgout? "

Bruce Smith. Ever hear of him? Upshaw sometimes I'm sure. Smith did have one sack against you last year. But, in general, we couldn't pressure you last year, so it's not like that was a huge factor in our games then. With weaker lines it's hard to see it coming into play now.

"I am not trying to knock down what the Redskins have done so far but I think you guys are taking it a bit too far already. Think of what you would be saying to a Cowboys fan if they were going crazy because they were 2-0 had they beat the Falcons."

Depends on how the Cowboys might have won the two games I suppose. Had they nearly doubled the offensive production of the opponent in the first game and duplicated it in the second game save for a late bomb against, you might recognize the difference in the teams and credit them. You might realize the scores were close only due to some internal errors that at some point, whether now or later, will not be present. The Redskins will play a game eventually without two turnovers. Honest. If it's this week, well, that's where the predictions come from.

"Well, we'll see after tomorrow. If the Redskins beat the Giants tomorrow I will start believing in them a lot more. But I'm not completely sold on them yet. Well, not for the NFC East division title that is. I think they will definitely compete for a wildcard spot."

I don't know that any of us are fully sold either, Tom. Ramsey has almost certainly got to get a little weaker eventually. Teams will eventually stop him and he'll play poorly and that will alter things. If he has a bad game this week you'll beat us without too much trouble. We'll know why as well. If he doesn't have a poor game against you this week, will you know why you lost? I don't think you will.

"I just have this feeling that once the Giants OLine starts playing better, they are going to be winning a lot of games. And I don't see it taking too long. But with Petitgout back, I think the Giants win this game."

Could be. But, it won't be about Petitgout. It'll be Ramsey's failure or Smoot being out or a combination of five turnovers and 12 penalties and six sacks that gives you a narrow advantage. It was about us last year against you. It will be again.

[Eagles_Legendz]

I suppose we shall see. I'm just not seeing a Redskin blowout (which is what most of you are predicting). Anyway, good luck this weekend, and stay injury free.

How many Eagles you think will be injured over the course of the bye week? :40oz:

[Skins24]

Skins 27

Giants 14

Candidate gets his first TD.

Smoot gets an int.

[Mad Mike]

Tom. I love ya Bro. But I think it is you who is being a little arrogant here. Your boys in blue had a great season last year but this year all they have proven is that they can beat the Rams with Kurt Warner (who has sucked for two years now) when they refuse to run the ball.

Last year the Giants beat us by a TD in one game and a FG in another. Not exactly a huge margin of victory over a Redskins team that could barely get a snap off without a mistake.

That was then, this is now.

This year has already proven that this is a much improved Redskins team. Note that I am not saying they have proven anything other than they are much improved. (agreed?) The Giants on the other hand made improvements on paper over last years team but it cannot be said that they have proven that they are a much better team. (agreed?) So how can you presume that the Giants are vastly superior to the Redskins?

Now consider that the Giants will be playing in OUR house after a short week and a tough OT loss and the Redskins match up well with them.

The Giants are still a good team that will certainly be fired up, and this will be the Redskins first big test of the season. But there is no reason to think that the Redskins are not capable of rising to the occasion and beating the Giants to go on to 3-0.

So lets just hope that there are no injuries to either team and see what happens shall we?

Peace bro.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

Art,

The Giants played awful football last year against the Redskins in the first game and still won. They turned the ball over three times, Collins completed less than 50% of his passes and the Giants averaged 2.3 yards per carry. The Redskins committed two turnovers I believe but actually played better than the Giants and still lost. I don't think the Giants have to play a perfect game to win if you want to base this stuff on last years performances.

As far as the Jets moving the ball on Miami, the Houston Texans outgained the Dolphins in their first game so I'm not that impressed with Miami. And David Carr had 266 yards and wasn't sacked once against them.

I used the term self destructed but should have just said turned the ball over. They handed the Redskins the ball for their second TD to get back in the game. I think that turned the game around. I didn't see the game so I'm going by what was in the media.

You know what Art? You are obviously entitled to believe what you want but you are basing your thoughts on what happened last year. I don't see where the Redskins will destroy the Giants if the Redskins play error free football. Your remarks clearly show that you believe the Redskins are by far a better team than the Giants and I don't agree. But that is my opinion.

As far as the Giants losing to the Cowboys, those games happen sometimes. As a Redskin fan, you should know that. The Giants made some very dumb choices otherwise they should have won that game. If you want to tell me that Fassel will make a dumb call that will cost the Giants the game? I have no problem with believing that. He has done it a few times.

I see the talent the Skins have and you do have the talent and ability to beat the Giants but on the same token, the Giants have the talent and ability to beat the Redskins.

This is too long for me to respond to everything but I respect how you feel about your team but I have confidence in my team to win as well.

Mad Mike,

I'm not saying that the Giants are largely superior to the Redskins. Not at all. There are people here who apparently think the Redskins are far superior to the Giants which I completely disagree with.

And I definitely have the thought in my mind that the Giants could lose tomorrow. I think this is a 50-50 game. Either team could win. My problem is that it seems that a lot here think the Redskins are so superior to the Giants based on the first two weeks of this season. I think that is a bit out there and expressed my opinion on it.

And I'll tell ya what, I'm sure if the Skins win tomorrow, I will hear it and I accept that. I will also give it considering this thread. I am usually a gracious winner but I'm not too sure I will be if the Giants win tomorrow. But this is the first time that the Giants and Skins have been involved in a game this intense since I've been posting here. I guess that is why the discussions are a bit more intense than they have been the past couple of seasons.

Hey, I'll be here whatever happens tomorrow. I will take my medicine if the outcome dictates that. But I'll also be spooning it if the results allow me to sppon it.

And just so you are clear about my whole point in this topic. My response to this thread was not that I don't think the Redskins will beat the Giants. It was in response to the lack of respect being shown here to the Giants by some people. The same thing in which a lot of you were upset about being done to the Redskins. Hey, I know this is a Skins board but I'm going to defend my team wherever it may be.

Ok, I've lost my train of thought. I'll stop now but I'll be back.

[doubledeuce]

Nice exchange between Tom and Mad Mike.

REDSKINS 24

Giants 19

[Skins26]

Tom,

Yes we did barely beat the Jets who you say proved that they have no offense. But we didnt allow them to get any yards, we shut them down offensively. Its not like we let them gain 300+ on us actually they had less than 200.

We have had 2 problems in the first two weeks that have made the games close. The first being turnovers. We lost the turnover battle to the jets 2-0. Last week we tied it 2-2. And all of our turnovers have been in our own territory, one being on the 1 yard line. The second problem is kick and punt coverage. Those are our two problems that have kept the games close. Our defense has done very well so far, granted though it was against backups, but one of those backups beat your Giants last year. Our offense put up 31 on a good defense last week and was clicking pretty well in the first week but then slowed in the 2nd half. Which will happen with a QB making his 7th start. I think we have the right to be ****y considering we have a QB that just made his 7th and 8th starts and his QB rating is higher than that of a vet like Kerri Collins who hasnt faced two tremedous defenses eithere and has arguably the same amount of weapons at his disposal.

If i werent bias and didnt love the skins would i think they Skins would win 38-0 hell no. But I am bias and I do love the skins. I know its not a realistic pick considering the Giants are one of the better teams in football. But when you love your team you gotta pick them like that.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

Skins,

I'm not arguing that you guys should pick your team to win. Heck, I'm worried about this game and it is going to be tough. The Skins are a good team. I'm not denying any of that. My problem is with some of the predictions of the Skins blowing away the Giants.

I am being realistic about this game. I know there is just as much chance of the Giants losing as there is winning. I feel the Giants will win by about 4 or 5 points. I'm being realistic. I know the Giants are not going to blowout the Redskins. But on the same end, if the Skins do win, it won't be a blowout the other way. This is my point. I've taken exception to some of the predicted scores, not the Skins being predicted to win.

But like I've said in other posts, if the Giants win, these kinds of predictions will only make the win sweeter. And I'll be here no matter what the outcome of the game is.

[SkinsfanNJ0326]

I said in an earlier thread SKINS by 6

SKINS 28

giants 22

[Ghost of]

Tom, I don't understand why you aren't looking objectively at this.

The reason some people are predicting blowouts is because they think the Skins will put some of those sacks/mistakes behind them. And as Art said, you needed FIVE turnovers, including a last minute one, several penalties and terrible kick coverage by the Skins to win by SIX last year. The Skins are markedly improved this year, the Giants are not.

Now, anything CAN happen, but when looking at the reality of the last couple of games between Skins/Giants AND looking at how the Giants lost to the same backup QB the Skins BEAT this year, and how you lost to the Cowboys, why are you being so pigheaded in refusing to acknowledge those facts.

And that same Jets team that did squat vs. us, got 370 passing against the vaunted Dolphins. maybe our D is better than the Dolphins, maybe it's just luckier. In any event, it's not lack of respect for the Giants, it's that FRANKLY, the Skins are more talented in almost every area of the roster except Defensive Line.

Think about that. Why WOULDN'T we assume the SKins would win if they cut down mistakes and playing AT HOME while the Giants are coming off an OVERTIME LOSS and a particularly gut-wrenching one at that.

All those factors makes for a disadvantage for the Giants. Sure, they could win but so could any team on any Sunday(cept the Cards)

[Tom [Giants fan]]

GhostofWoodsonReturns

In any event, it's not lack of respect for the Giants, it's that FRANKLY, the Skins are more talented in almost every area of the roster except Defensive Line

Ghost,

You think the Skins are more talented at WR, TE, RB, and QB than the Giants?

I'll admit, WR is a lot closer than I thought it would be but I think at best, you have it even there but I still give a slight advantage to the Giants. TE isn't even close. RB, Tiki has his problems with fumbling but none of the Skins backs has accomplished in a season what Barber has. And Kerry Collins has taken one team to the NFC Championship and his current team to the Super Bowl so comparing an 8 game starter to him isn't possible right now.

I'll concede to the Skins LB, DB, and OL. OL is huge and could be the difference here. I have said it before and I'll say it again, the Giants may pay dearly this year for being so lackluster with the OLine.

But I wouldn't say the Redskins have more talent in almost every area of the roster.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

Art,

For some reason I thought Smith lined up on the other side. I actually got turned around. Who is the other DE that will go against Bober?

[Ghost of]

Wynn lines up against him on run downs, at least.

Tom

I didn't count TE as a separate position, just like I didn't differentiate between DE/DT. Yeah, if you want that you got the big edge there.

But at WR? No, Skins have the edge in depth and talent. They go 5-6 deep. Coles is better than Toomer, Gardner is significantly superior to Hilliard and more durable. Even if you want to give a slight edge to Toomer for longer production(though any player entering his prime would have that held against him) it is still not a large enough margin to make up for the differential between Gardner and Hilliard. McCants/Johnson/Jacobs are all better than Carter and whatever else you have.

RB---we both have smallish backs that are viewed as fumblers, though only Tiki is actually fumbling this year. Tiki is the more proven commodity right now, but Canidate and Betts and Cartwright are more multidimensional. For the starters, yeah Tiki gets the edge. Depth and overall ability? I don't think so, really.

At QB???UHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Skins. Kerry isn't terrible, but right now who is performing better. Ramsey's arm is stronger even than Collins(which says something.) Both have bouts of inaccuracy, but Ramsey's is not dependent on getting hit, whereas Collins gets into slumps because of pressure. Ramsey is proving himself more resilient and is already well-known as smarter and more intelligent.

What is Kerry supposed to have over Patrick except experience(which Kordell has too?) Sure Kerry is better than Kordell, but in terms of talent(arm, accuracy, resilience, toughness, confidence, leadership, maturity, intelligence) I'd say Ramsey has him beat.

What's more important is that Ramsey is showing that NOW. He doesn't need to go to rehab and get booted out of a town to make himself an NFL QB. He already is.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

Tiki isn't multidimensional? He has shown time and time again he can get the tough yards, run around the corners, and he is an excellent receiver out of the backfield.

I think the Skins fans comparison between Gardner and Hilliard has been an unfair one. You are looking at Gardner and his numbers and what you are seeing is his numbers as a number one receiver last year. Hilliard is and always will be a number 2 receiver. If you compare Gardner and Hilliard as number 2 receivers, I don't hink you can tell me there is no contest there. Hilliard has the ability to get open and his running ability with the ball is excellent.

To give the Redskins the advantage at QB based on two games is ridiculous. I'm not going to argue this because no matter what I say you are going to believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe.

How can you throw in Jacobs when he hasn't even played yet? This is in essence Tim Carter's first year and while he is showing a lot of good things, it is too early to argue after the first two. I need to see a lot more from him and the other two guys are rookies. If you are talking 1-5 at WR, than ok, I'll agree the Redskins have the better depth. The Giants are very young at WR after Toomer and Hilliard. I can't even throw in Ron Dixon because he is on the PUP list and because he is just an idiot. :doh:

You know? This is one of the most interesting and fun Giants/Skins weeks I've had in a long time. I'm glad the Redskins are finally kind of good. :laugh:

[Ghost of]

Dixon LOL

That thing he did when he heard the lightning is still one of THE funniest things I've ever seen in a football game. Do you remember it?

I threw in Jacobs because he's a #1 pick in an offense that, while different, is more familiar to him and he produced at an elite level in college. Carter was pretty good, but is more someone you have to develop. And I threw him in, I didn't count him as the main guy. McCants and Johnson have still shown it.

As for Collins/Ramsey, it's NOT off of 2 games. It's off of every game he's played(OK, let's scratch that terrible GB outing) He has shown these abilities before this year. It's better this year for him, of course, but I'm HARDLY basing it off 2 games.

However, the fact is, THIS YEAR Ramsey IS playing better. Is he not? Kerry had a nice second half against that Cover 2/Prevent that Dallas was playing last week but what did he do before then? But what has Kerry done this year, if we want to focus on this season, to show you he's a better QB than Ramsey right now? Throw for more picks? Throw for below 50 percent completion? Barely lead his team to a win over a STL squad that had 7 turnovers? (which by the way, was not an impressive win, yet you denigrate the better-performing squads the Skins played..odd..you counting the Cowboys or WHAT?)

As for Tiki, I DID give him the edge. I didn't say he was one-dimensional, only that he is NOT a big guy who is going to break tackles on the inside--whereas Betts and Cartwright can(though Rock only gets the ball against short-yardage Ds) Canidate offers and has shown some of what Tiki has, except the fumbling, thus far. Is that not true?

[Eagles_Legendz]

Ghost, you are being very "pigheaded" (what you called Tom), if you are even TRYING to compare Tiki to the Skins trifecta of RBs. Ramsey has more potential, but if you give Collins time (which is a big if because of the OL), he is a better QB than Ramsey IMO. He's one of the most dangerous QBs in the league when given time. I'd say the Skins have a slight edge at WR, because I view Gardner as an upgrade over Hilliard and Coles fairly even with Toomer. I'd also give the advantage to the Giants along the D-line and TE (obviously). The matchups aren't as one-sided as some of you are seeming to think.

[Ghost of]

Are we looking at Collins career QB rating? Does that count? Does his yards to TD ratio not count either? Collins is Testaverde II at best. An average-to-good QB but not a superstar, and he crumbles under pressure.

Talking about giving him time is like talking about giving Vinny or Dilfer or just about any DECENT QB time. Give Jeff Blake 5 seconds and he'll kill you too. Collins is fortunate to be supported by what is NORMALLY a strong D and good skill players. He does not LIFT anyone by his performance.

As for Tiki, the man has the most fumbles of any non QB since 2000. He gets away with some too. He costs his team or does he not? Now, Trung or Betts might still give away the rock this year a few times, but thus far in preseason and regular season thus far, they do not look like fumblers.

Tiki is nice, but he is NOT the best RB in the NFC. Woodson must have been on 'shrooms when saying that.

[Ghost of]

Comp Yards Yds/Att TD INT QB Rating

55.5 23740 6.63 122 120 73.3

Color me underwhelmed with regard to Collins.

[CBMGreatOne]

I think I'll go ahead and make a point now.

It's easy to say that the Redskins "barely" beat two teams that were each without their best player, in this case, their pro-bowl QBs, but what is often conveniently overlooked is that the final score in both cases does not accurately reflect the competitive proximity of the two teams involved.

The reason for this is very simple, and can be attributed to our turnovers, penalties, and other somewhat inexplicable, when put in context, breakdowns.

The Jets game, for example, was a slow paced, defensive game against a very well-coached Jets team the nature of which, generally leads to a victory for the team who makes fewer mistakes (See Marty, 0-5 to 5-5). Though the Jets made almost NO mistakes whatsoever, our superior talent led us to what, in hindsight, was a fairly convincing win, despite the close score.

I will not go as far as to trivialize our 17-0 deficit against Atlanta as having "spotted" them 17 points, (though I am tempted to do so) but I will say that it was a direct result of a young team going into hostile indoor territory and failing to get into a rhythm early, largely due to the excessive crowd-noise, messing up many of the playcalls and audibles. This is no excuse to fall behind by 17 points to start a game, but it is the reason why it happened.

After this inauspicious beginning, however, the Redskins were able to reel off a 33-7 scoring run on the road in a circumstance where only vastly superior talent would have made this possible.

You might as well throw out the last TD to Farris as garbage time, because that is essentially what it was. In any case, Ade Jimoh is our #4 corner, and I hope he doesn't see that kind of action again anytime soon.

Throw in the fact that both our offense and defense ranks statiscally in the top 3, albeit from a small sample rate and all of this points to the Redskins as being a team which has yet to translate their superior talent into a more lopsided final score. As soon as that starts to happen, and I'm fairly confident that it will, I will be sold on this team. If it happens this week, the Giants are in trouble.

To that end, I believe the Skins matchup better against a team heavy on the flash and relatively light on the discipline than the contrary. This Giants team looks a bit like just that kind of team, but who knows?

[Eagles_Legendz]

Originally posted by GhostofWoodsonReturns

Comp Yards Yds/Att TD INT QB Rating

55.5 23740 6.63 122 120 73.3

Color me underwhelmed with regard to Collins.

What are Collins #'s with the Giants? His QB rating suffers because he doesn't throw many TDs. I'd still be interested in seeing his career stats with NY.

Also, I wasn't aware we were debating whether or not Tiki is the best RB in the NFC. I thought we were comparing Tiki to Trung, which in that regard, there is no comparison.

[CBMGreatOne]

Actually, nobody is comparing Tiki to Trung straight up, if I'm not mistaken. I think we're talking about the overall effectiveness of our running game (Betts/Canidate/Cartwright) to the Giants (Barber, etc. can't remember the name of the other guy). There definitely is a comparison there. Tiki is good, but so far, Betts and Canidate in tandem have been very effective.

[Ghost of]

You're right EL

Thus far, Tiki's fumbled the ball away twice to Canidate's zero times. There is no comparison

As for Collins, the guy's stats are better with the Giants but they are still only decent. He's not a franchise QB, especially with how he reacts to pressure. Sorry, Ramsey has more ability AND has shown more since the end of last season.

[Eagles_Legendz]

Yes, if you can apply pressure to Collins he's average at best. However, when you don't he is one of the most accurate QBs in the league.

The Giants use Delvin Joyce instead of Levens as their 2nd RB (actually, so far, B. Mitch has been their 2nd RB). The Skins have had a decent running game so far, but their RBs don't scare me half as much as Barber does.