The Mario Williams vs DeMarcus Ware sack watch...OVER

[esloan]

Here are some more stats for you (thanks to AdamJT13):

TOTAL SACKS

Ware 15.5

Clay Matthews 13.5

James Harrison 10.5

Julius Peppers 8.0

FIRST QUARTER

4.0 Ware

3.0 Matthews

0.0 Harrison, Peppers

SECOND QUARTER

5.5 Matthews

5.0 Ware

4.0 Peppers

2.5 Harrison

FIRST HALF

9.0 Ware

8.5 Matthews

4.0 Peppers

2.5 Harrison

THIRD QUARTER

6.5 Harrison

2.0 Ware

1.0 Matthews, Peppers

FOURTH QUARTER

4.5 Ware

4.0 Matthews

3.0 Peppers

1.5 Harrison

SECOND HALF

8.0 Harrison

6.5 Ware

5.0 Matthews

4.0 Peppers

SCORE +/- 7 POINTS

12.0 Ware

9.5 Matthews

5.0 Peppers

3.0 Harrison

SCORE +/- 7 POINTS IN FOURTH QUARTER

3.0 Ware, Matthews

0.0 Harrison, Peppers

OPPONENT IN DEFENSE'S TERRITORY

8.5 Ware

5.0 Peppers

2.0 Matthews

0.0 Harrison

OPPONENT AT OR INSIDE DEFENSE'S 35 ("FIELD-GOAL RANGE")

5.5 Ware

3.0 Peppers

1.0 Matthews

0.0 Harrison

OPPONENT AT OR INSIDE DEFENSE'S 20 ("RED ZONE")

2.0 Peppers

1.0 Ware

0.0 Matthews, Harrison

FIRST DOWN

3.5 Harrison

3.0 Ware, Peppers

2.5 Matthews

SECOND DOWN

4.0 Ware, Matthews

3.5 Harrison

3.0 Peppers

THIRD/FOURTH DOWN

8.5 Ware

7.0 Matthews

3.5 Harrison

2.0 Peppers

VS. LEFT TACKLE

11.5 Ware

7.0 Peppers

5.0 Harrison

2.0 Matthews

VS. RIGHT TACKLE

5.5 Matthews

2.0 Ware

1.0 Harrison

0.0 Peppers

VS. EITHER TACKLE

13.5 Ware

7.5 Matthews

7.0 Peppers

6.0 Harrison

VS. CENTER OR GUARD

3.0 Matthews

1.0 Harrison

0.0 Ware, Peppers

VS. TIGHT END

2.0 Ware

0.0 Matthews, Harrison, Peppers

VS. RUNNING BACK

2.5 Harrison

0.0 Ware, Matthews, Peppers

UNBLOCKED

3.0 Matthews

1.0 Harrison, Peppers

0.0 Ware

SACK WITHIN 2-3 SECONDS

6.5 Ware

5.0 Peppers

4.5 Matthews

4.0 Harrison

SACK WITHIN 3-4 SECONDS

5.0 Ware

4.5 Harrison

3.0 Matthews

0.0 Peppers

SACK WITHIN 4-5 SECONDS

4.0 Matthews

3.0 Ware

2.0 Harrison

1.0 Peppers

SACK AFTER 5-PLUS SECONDS

2.0 Matthews

2.0 Peppers

1.0 Ware

0.0 Harrison

SACK IN LESS THAN 4 SECONDS (COMBINED 2-3 AND 3-4)

11.5 Ware

8.5 Harrison

7.5 Matthews

5.0 Peppers

SACK IN LESS THAN 5 SECONDS

14.5 Ware

11.5 Matthews

10.5 Harrison

6.0 Peppers

WARE SACKS (15.5)

LT Trent Williams, Redskins (2-3 seconds)

LT Rashad Butler, Texans (3-4)

TE Joel Dreessen, Texans (2-3)

LT Rashad Butler, Texans (5-plus)

RT David Stewart, Titans (4-5)

LT Michael Roos, Titans (3-4)

LT Bryant McKinnie, Vikings (4-5)

LT David Diehl, Giants (2-3)

LT Jeff Backus, Lions (2-3) -- HALF SACK

RT Jon Stinchcomb, Saints (3-4)

LT Trent Williams, Redskins (4-5)

LT Trent Williams, Redskins (3-4)

LT Levi Brown, Cardinals (3-4)

LT Austin Howard, Eagles (2-3)

TE Clay Harbor, Eagles (2-3)

LT Austin Howard, Eagles (2-3)

By blocker: 11.5 LT, 2.0 RT, 2.0 TE

MATTHEWS SACKS (13.5)

Unblocked, Eagles (4-5)

RT Winston Justice, Eagles (5-plus)

LG Todd Herremans, Eagles (3-4)

C Geoff Hangartner, Bills (4-5)

Unblocked, Bills (2-3)

LT Jamon Meredith, Bills (2-3)

LT Jeff Backus, Lions (3-4)

RT Jammal Brown, Redskins (2-3) -- HALF SACK

Unblocked, Redskins (4-5)

RT Damien Woody, Jets (2-3)

RG Leonard Davis, Cowboys (3-4)

RT Phil Loadholt, Vikings (5-plus)

RT Corey Hilliard, Lions (4-5)

RT J'Marcus Webb, Bears (2-3)

By blocker: 2.0 LT, 5.5 RT, 3.0 C/G, 3.0 unblocked

HARRISON SACKS (10.5)

LT Sam Baker, Falcons (2-3)

LT Michael Roos, Titans (3-4)

RB Chris Johnson, Titans (3-4)

LT Joe Thomas, Browns (4-5) -- HALF SACK (VS. WILDCAT)

LT Joe Thomas, Browns (4-5) -- HALF SACK

LT Joe Thomas, Browns (4-5)

Unblocked, Saints (2-3)

RT Dennis Roland, Bengals (3-4)

RB Michael Bush, Raiders (2-3)

LT Jared Veldheer, Raiders (3-4)

C Geoff Hangartner, Bills (2-3)

RB Jonathan Stewart, Panthers (3-4) -- HALF SACK

By blocker: 5.0 LT, 1.0 RT, 1.0 C/G, 2.5 RB, 1.0 unblocked

PEPPERS SACKS (8.0)

LT Jeff Backus, Lions (2-3)

LT David Diehl, Giants (2-3)

LT Jake Long, Dolphins (5-plus)

LT Jake Long, Dolphins (2-3)

LT Jake Long, Dolphins (2-3)

Unblocked, Eagles (2-3)

LT Jeff Backus, Lions (5-plus)

LT Matt Light, Patriots (4-5)

By Blocker: 7.0 LT, 1.0 unblocked

[tr1]

You puke fans make me laugh :rotflmao:...

Did any of you happen to see when Where was dropped into coverage for a play or two?

The commentators could barely hold their laughter...the fat boy sent everyone except Where into the backfield...which saved Where's bacon.

He won't be so lucky on Monday night.

Imagine, Where trying to cover someone.

Ridiculous, isn't it? :rotflmao:

---------- Post added September-20th-2011 at 10:48 PM ----------

I never said he wasn't good. He's just not dominant. Demarcus Ware never takes over a game like Lawrence Taylor did. He just doesn't. He doesn't take over games like Ray Lewis still can at 36. Suh affects a game a lot more than Ware does. Ware gets his sacks but no teams run away from him. You don't sit there and watch a Dallas game and marvel at what he does every play. He's better than Orakpo but not remarkably so. And he never dominates good tackles. You can worship him all you want and he's a tremendous player but he's not even close to being the most dominant defender in the league.

He's not even close to a Ray Lewis in his prime.

Puke hype > Reality.

Earth to puke fans...earth to puke fans...

:rotflmao:

[Ken]

You puke fans make me laugh :rotflmao:...

Did you miss the post right above your drivel that basically owned everything you or any other detractor of Ware ever had?

You should read it....seriously. Then turn in your NFL fan card because you have no idea what you are watching.

[McNabbOwnsFedEx]

Esloan, excellent post. Then again, if you need that post to know that Ware is a dominant defender than you shouldn't be watching football.

As an eagle fan, there is not one other defensive player in the league that I fear more than Ware. Back in the Westbrook days he was one of the few guys(Sean Taylor being the other) that could keep up with bwest on screens misdirection plays.

[kevinklein]

Any opinion that doubts DeMarcus Ware's talent and ability is an opinion not worth listening to.

[tr1]

Then turn in your NFL fan card because you have no idea what you are watching.

Kenny, you follow a franchise that has won less playoff games than the Skins have in 13 years...and you STILL think your franchise is better than ours.

Please, turn in your fan card...and quit swallowing the hype.

:rotflmao:

Where is a product of scheme.

---------- Post added September-21st-2011 at 09:17 PM ----------

Esloan, excellent post. Then again, if you need that post to know that Ware is a dominant defender than you shouldn't be watching football.

As an eagle fan, there is not one other defensive player in the league that I fear more than Ware. Back in the Westbrook days he was one of the few guys(Sean Taylor being the other) that could keep up with bwest on screens misdirection plays.

Eagle fans are generally not very intelligent.

Thanks for holding up the average.

---------- Post added September-21st-2011 at 09:18 PM ----------

Any opinion that doubts DeMarcus Ware's talent and ability is an opinion not worth listening to.

He's okay...but hardly HOF material.

Any casual fan of the NFL would know that.

[schmitty_199]

The opinion that Ware is a product of scheme is absolutely ridiculous with no factual evidence to back it up.

What scheme makes a player have one of the quickest first steps in football and gives them the explosion to blow by some of the best LT's in the league?

What scheme makes a player able to take tackles who weigh 60+ pounds more then them and push them back into the quarterbacks face?

If there were a such scheme, every coach in the league would be using it, as this is a copy cat league.

I get Cowboy hatred, and there is a lot of weak points on the Cowboys that get over hyped, but Ware isn't one of them. He will be a HOF. Guaranteed.

[tiger187126]

i agree that ware is one of the best defensive players in football.

i also agree that he's not really the fear inspiring sort of guy.

can't tell you what it is, but he just feels like kind of a stat monster to me. he puts up numbers, but he's not an mvp/game changing type guy. he gets his sacks, but they don't ruin the game for opponents.

here are some names, tell me which of these guys is less of a game changer than ware:

polomolu

ray lewis

ed reed

revis

asomaugh

clay matthews

charles woodson

justin tuck

osi umenyora (sp)

julius peppers

james harrison

suh

i didn't even think i would name that many going into it, but honestly that list is guys who come up huge in (relatively) big moments. they swing the game and make you change the way you play. i just don't see ware as that type of guy. he's a very good player and physically dominant, but he just doesn't have the it factor that the guys i mentioned above do.

[DCsportsfan53]

Redskins' fans embarrass me sometimes. I wouldn't go so far as to say he's the best defender in the league but he's damn close, top 5 at least. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous, he's an incredible player. Tr1 if you think Ware sucks then clearly you must think Chris Samuels was one awful LT because he gave up at least one sack to Ware every time we played them. Used to drive me crazy, Samuels struggled with him in the run and pass game, killed us so many times.

[kevinklein]

He's okay...but hardly HOF material.

Any casual fan of the NFL would know that.

I'm not sure where you gathered any insinuation from me that Ware was hall of fame material. What I do know, however, is that if your standard for a DE is to be hall of fame material, then you're likely disappointed in the Redskins young DE/OLBs as well.

---------- Post added September-21st-2011 at 10:39 PM ----------

polomolu

ray lewis

ed reed

revis

asomaugh

clay matthews

charles woodson

justin tuck

osi umenyora (sp)

julius peppers

james harrison

suh

i didn't even think i would name that many going into it, but honestly that list is guys who come up huge in (relatively) big moments. they swing the game and make you change the way you play. i just don't see ware as that type of guy. he's a very good player and physically dominant, but he just doesn't have the it factor that the guys i mentioned above do.

Ware frightens me more than Osi, Tuck, and Peppers. Willis, however, should be on that list.

[tiger187126]

Ware frightens me more than Osi, Tuck, and Peppers. Willis, however, should be on that list.

true, i knew i would leave someone out, i think beason has been a pretty good mlb as well.

but i don't know how you watch redskins games and say that osi and tuck don't scare you. osi especially. i'm pretty sure he invented the strip/sack and that's the kind of play that absolutely kills you. peppers just makes plays. you get the feeling that he could effectively drop into coverage, he has a handful of blocked field goals and he's a reliable DE no matter where he's played.

it's completely a matter of opinion, but like i said, he just collects his stats. meanwhile:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCdMg1OGBAM

that wins games.

[kevinklein]

true, i knew i would leave someone out, i think beason has been a pretty good mlb as well.

but i don't know how you watch redskins games and say that osi and tuck don't scare you. osi especially. i'm pretty sure he invented the strip/sack and that's the kind of play that absolutely kills you. peppers just makes plays. you get the feeling that he could effectively drop into coverage, he has a handful of blocked field goals and he's a reliable DE no matter where he's played.

it's completely a matter of opinion, but like i said, he just collects his stats. meanwhile:

that wins games.

I never said that Osi and Tuck don't scare me; I just said Ware scares me more. But frankly, as a Skins fan, I'm frightened of anyone on the Giants D-line. They always seem to kill us. Against Dallas, however, it always seems to be Ware who turns in the dominate defensive performance.

And in regards to your video, there's a reason Heyer is no longer in DC. It's because we saw that way too many times.

[Enter Apotheosis]

i agree that ware is one of the best defensive players in football.

i also agree that he's not really the fear inspiring sort of guy.

can't tell you what it is, but he just feels like kind of a stat monster to me. he puts up numbers, but he's not an mvp/game changing type guy. he gets his sacks, but they don't ruin the game for opponents.

I would argue that Ware doesn't worry you so much because he has never been part of a defense that has been good enough to truly warrant fear. Just about every single guy you listed has played for an extremely good, aggressive defense at one time or another. They all stood out and gained league-wide notoriety in large part because opposing offenses had more to account for than just the play of two or three players. Nnamdi Asomugha is probably the best analogue for Ware on that list because he had been in a similar situation before going to the Jets.

Would you consider Asomugha to be a fear-inspiring player as a member of the 2009 Raiders? I wouldn't. He's truly, absurdly good at what he does but he's just one man. If you don't throw at him you're just contending with 10 members of the leagues' 26th ranked defense. Dallas has been no different. You'll probably take your lumps from Ware and Ratliff but ultimately the quality of their play will be dragged down slightly by those around them.

[tiger187126]

I would argue that Ware doesn't worry you so much because he has never been part of a defense that has been good enough to truly warrant fear. Just about every single guy you listed has played for an extremely good, aggressive defense at one time or another. They all stood out and gained league-wide notoriety in large part because opposing offenses had more to account for than just the play of two or three players. Nnamdi Asomugha is probably the best analogue for Ware on that list because he had been in a similar situation before going to the Jets.

Would you consider Asomugha to be a fear-inspiring player as a member of the 2009 Raiders? I wouldn't. He's truly, absurdly good at what he does but he's just one man. If you don't throw at him you're just contending with 10 members of the leagues' 26th ranked defense. Dallas has been no different. You'll probably take your lumps from Ware and Ratliff but ultimately the quality of their play will be dragged down slightly by those around them.

asomaugh went to the eagles.....and he wasn't feared in Oakland. he was ignored. so was his side of the field and his receiver. he changed everything you did and took whomever he was matched up against out of the game.

and watching this game tonight i can't believe i forgot guys like freeney and mathis. if you're watching this game this is exactly what i'm talking about. these two are owning the game and indy has not been a top tier defense, but these guys always show up when the lights are on.

[Enter Apotheosis]

asomaugh went to the eagles.....

Thought one thing, typed another. :doh:

and he wasn't feared in Oakland. he was ignored. so was his side of the field and his receiver. he changed everything you did and took whomever he was matched up against out of the game.

Let's not pretend Ware's presence isn't also strongly felt in how opposing offenses gameplan.

and watching this game tonight i can't believe i forgot guys like freeney and mathis. if you're watching this game this is exactly what i'm talking about. these two are owning the game and indy has not been a top tier defense, but these guys always show up when the lights are on.

Freeney and Mathis are great but Indy's lead right now rests squarely atop the shoulders of Ben Roethlisberger. I'd also like to point out that from 2005-2010 Ware had more sacks, more tackles, more passes defended, more interceptions, and more forced fumbles than Dwight Freeney. Mathis has a few more forced fumbles but still lags behind everywhere else.

[penasquito]

Freeney and Mathis are great but Indy's lead right now rests squarely atop the shoulders of Ben Roethlisberger. I'd also like to point out that from 2005-2010 Ware had more sacks, more tackles, more passes defended, more interceptions, and more forced fumbles than Dwight Freeney. Mathis has a few more forced fumbles but still lags behind everywhere else.

Technically true, but since all of Ware's stats came playing the Little Sisters of the Poor when the Cowboys were way behind or way ahead, they don't count. Also, Greg Ellis.

[tiger187126]

snip

like i said it's a matter of opinion. i said ware is a stat collector so it doesn't surprise me he's had better numbers, but don't think less of asomaugh because you didn't get to watch him. he was insanely good. i believe there was talk of him not giving up a touchdown in a season or something ridiculous like that. how he adjusts in philly will be a different thing though, there is a stat about adding an "elite" corner to your team that says your defense gets worse after you do it.

we'll see how ware does tomorrow night (and i think we can both agree hopefully not well), but i doubt he has the kind of night that mathis/freeney are having tonight.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Tr1 if you think Ware sucks then clearly you must think Chris Samuels was one awful LT because he gave up at least one sack to Ware every time we played them. Used to drive me crazy, Samuels struggled with him in the run and pass game, killed us so many times.

Interesting, considering that Ware only has 6 sacks in the 10 games he played against the Skins during Samuels' time here. Yet you claim he gave up "at least" one sack to Ware in each game.

You might wanna hold off on the talk about how Skins fans embarrass you....

[Ken]

true, i knew i would leave someone out, i think beason has been a pretty good mlb as well.

but i don't know how you watch redskins games and say that osi and tuck don't scare you. osi especially. i'm pretty sure he invented the strip/sack and that's the kind of play that absolutely kills you. peppers just makes plays. you get the feeling that he could effectively drop into coverage, he has a handful of blocked field goals and he's a reliable DE no matter where he's played.

it's completely a matter of opinion, but like i said, he just collects his stats. meanwhile:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCdMg1OGBAM

that wins games.

I'm really confused by the video you posted. What wins games? Getting a sack up 21 against the great Heyer? Please explain...I have seen Ware produce more game changing plays than anyone I see in the NFL period.

[terrifNick21]

I'm really confused by the video you posted. What wins games? Getting a sack up 21 against the great Heyer? Please explain...I have seen Ware produce more game changing plays than anyone I see in the NFL period.

You must not have watched Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed very much.

[Warhead36]

You must not have watched Troy Polamalu or Ed Reed very much.

Or Charles Woodson, Clay Matthews, James Harrison, etc. etc. There are too many dominant defensive players to say Ware changes games more than any of them.

With that said, Ware is definitely elite. Does he benefit from scheme? Yes he does, but the vast majority of NFL players are system guys to some extent. That hardly means you can just plug and play any guy in Ware's spot and get that kinda production.

[KDVFinest]

Not D Ware's best game but a sack and pressures when it counted won this game for the Cowboys.

Ware = Hall of Famer in his prime

[Ken]

Not D Ware's best game but a sack and pressures when it counted won this game for the Cowboys.

Ware = Hall of Famer in his prime

5-2 Ware leads this "competition".

Clearly Ware is a byproduct of the system....lol

[schmitty_199]

Not D Ware's best game but a sack and pressures when it counted won this game for the Cowboys.

Ware = Hall of Famer in his prime

4th quarter and game changing as well, completely stalled the Redskins drive and kept the Cowboys in it. That blatant trip by Williams after Ware beat him cost him a for sure one as well. Not trying to start a ref arguement at all(because the questionable calls go both ways over the course of the game) but I was really surprised with some of the stuff Williams was getting away with on Ware. Another time he flat out tackled him.

[TSO]

5-2 Ware leads this "competition".

Clearly Ware is a byproduct of the system....lol

Nice to see you so active after a win, Ken. Very surprising.