DCdribble: Just Say NO to QB in First or Second Round.

[mjpanzer]

"Months ago when the Redskins were statistically eliminated from the playoffs, I spent hours scouring the internet for any information of who the Redskins might take. While at the time most bloggers had the Redskins taking Cam Newton at number 10, the times have changed, and the trendy pick now seems to be WR Julio Jones. Still, there seems to be an undercurrent of opinions that still fill the skins should take a QB, so that is where this draft guide will begin:

Under No Circumstances Should the Skins Take a QB in the First Two Rounds..."

Read the rest of the article here

FYI I maintaing skins take Quinn in Round 1, Cannon Round 2.

HTTR.

PS: If you strongly disagree or agree with me, it would be lovely if you could leave a comment on my site to spark some debate. Thanks!

[bushwack]

If the lockout officially ends today or tomorrow and we are able to trade McNabb for a 4th rounder to a team, and able to recoup at least one pick, and then Gabbert falls to 10 then I don't see how the Skins don't pick him. I'm all for drafting a guy like Quinn or trading down to pick up more picks, but I would have no problem with the Skins drafting Gabbert if he falls to 10.

[addicted]

And what say yes to Rex Grossman and John Beck to lead us into the future?

When are people going to wake up to the fact that you can make a case this year for all of these teams needing a QB to either become the franchise guy or to groom when the regular starter is finished playing:

Buffalo Bills

Miami Dolphins

New England Patriots

Dallas Cowboys

Philadelphia Eagles

Washington Redskins

Cincinnati Bengals

Cleveland Browns

Minnesota Vikings

Indianapolis Colts

Jacksonville Jaguars

Tennessee Titans

Carolina Panthers

Denver Broncos

Kansas City Chiefs

Oakland Raiders

Arizona Cardinals

San Francisco 49ers

Seattle Seahawks

With so many teams needing signal callers why would anyone want to wait until round 5 to try and get one of them? It doesn't make any sense to stand around while everyone else fixes the QB issues they have and think that we can wait until round 5 to get someone. QB's take time to develop, we are going to be the NFCE bottom feeders once again this year so why not get a jump on the maturation process required for a rookie adjusting to the speed of this game now? The answer is clear to me, if we want to win again sometime we need to groom ourselves a franchise QB or we could continue the losing we've all come to love so much and take another defensive player in the first round while other teams accept they have a problem and take all the good QB's and be left in the cold. I actually expect us to do that, we haven't learned anything from our past mistakes so why would that change now?

[RANSKINS98]

It's a weird draft for QB's this year; to me there is not really a elite QB or "franchise" QB in this years draft, but yet the prediction of QB's that are gonna be taken seem to be alot. Like Mayock said might be a record for QB's taken in first two rounds. Just confuses me why a team would take a QB in this years draft and set back your franchise another 3 or 4 years especially if the QB draft class is not expected to be great at all.

So I think we should pass on a QB in the first two rounds.

[mjpanzer]

And what say yes to Rex Grossman and John Beck to lead us into the future?

When are people going to wake up to the fact that you can make a case this year for all of these teams needing a QB to either become the franchise guy or to groom when the regular starter is finished playing:

Buffalo Bills

Miami Dolphins

New England Patriots

Dallas Cowboys

Philadelphia Eagles

Washington Redskins

Cincinnati Bengals

Cleveland Browns

Minnesota Vikings

Indianapolis Colts

Jacksonville Jaguars

Tennessee Titans

Carolina Panthers

Denver Broncos

Kansas City Chiefs

Oakland Raiders

Arizona Cardinals

San Francisco 49ers

Seattle Seahawks

With so many teams needing signal callers why would anyone want to wait until round 5 to try and get one of them? It doesn't make any sense to stand around while everyone else fixes the QB issues they have and think that we can wait until round 5 to get someone. QB's take time to develop, we are going to be the NFCE bottom feeders once again this year so why not get a jump on the maturation process required for a rookie adjusting to the speed of this game now? The answer is clear to me, if we want to win again sometime we need to groom ourselves a franchise QB or we could continue the losing we've all come to love so much and take another defensive player in the first round while other teams accept they have a problem and take all the good QB's and be left in the cold. I actually expect us to do that, we haven't learned anything from our past mistakes so why would that change now?

Good points all around. It is not that I necessarily disagree that we don't need to address the QB issue like these other teams, it is that I don't feel like there is anyone worth taking that huge risk of drafting a QB. We have so few picks in the draft, it would be an absolute shame if we can't bolster both our lines. How many years are we going to let them go? While I don't like Sexy Rexy, I wouldn't mind acquiring a young QB through free agency from another team. Just remember that Texas got Shaub from the Atlanta bench, and I think that could be a brilliant move.

Nevertheless, I obviously did not look into scenarios with trades. Obviously if we can pull a bunch of trades to acquire picks I would be less uneasy about taking a Mallet or a Locker. But because the draft already deals with enough hypotheticals, I avoided looking into trades.

Thanks again for the insight.

HTTR

---------- Post added April-26th-2011 at 02:02 PM ----------

It's a weird draft for QB's this year; to me there is not really a elite QB or "franchise" QB in this years draft, but yet the prediction of QB's that are gonna be taken seem to be alot. Like Mayock said might be a record for QB's taken in first two rounds. Just confuses me why a team would take a QB in this years draft and set back your franchise another 3 or 4 years especially if the QB draft class is not expected to be great at all.

So I think we should pass on a QB in the first two rounds.

Right there with you man.

[Truant]

And what say yes to Rex Grossman and John Beck to lead us into the future?

When are people going to wake up to the fact that you can make a case this year for all of these teams needing a QB to either become the franchise guy or to groom when the regular starter is finished playing:

Buffalo Bills

Miami Dolphins

New England Patriots

Dallas Cowboys

Philadelphia Eagles

Washington Redskins

Cincinnati Bengals

Cleveland Browns

Minnesota Vikings

Indianapolis Colts

Jacksonville Jaguars

Tennessee Titans

Carolina Panthers

Denver Broncos

Kansas City Chiefs

Oakland Raiders

Arizona Cardinals

San Francisco 49ers

Seattle Seahawks

With so many teams needing signal callers why would anyone want to wait until round 5 to try and get one of them? It doesn't make any sense to stand around while everyone else fixes the QB issues they have and think that we can wait until round 5 to get someone. QB's take time to develop, we are going to be the NFCE bottom feeders once again this year so why not get a jump on the maturation process required for a rookie adjusting to the speed of this game now? The answer is clear to me, if we want to win again sometime we need to groom ourselves a franchise QB or we could continue the losing we've all come to love so much and take another defensive player in the first round while other teams accept they have a problem and take all the good QB's and be left in the cold. I actually expect us to do that, we haven't learned anything from our past mistakes so why would that change now?

Odd, I see your post as making the opposite argument. If indeed teams are have dire needs for a QB and they aggressively try to address that need this draft, the value of the QBs in this draft will be overly inflated. Guys that should go in the middle rounds will be pushed to the top of the draft boards.

Using a higher pick on a position doesn't solve the problem. The QB class, as spoken by experts, is a difficult class to evaluate this year. When demand far outweighs supply and the supply is questionable the reaction shouldn't be "rush to get in when the getting is dubious." Rather, you'd snicker in the corner as other teams fight over marginal talent and you walk into the draft next year against slimmer competition, as many teams would have invested in QBs this year.

Because everyone else is doing it is not a good reason to invest in a QB early in the draft this year. It should be about the evaluation. If a player warrants the selection, so be it.

[JPCreativelab]

Odd, I see your post as making the opposite argument. If indeed teams are have dire needs for a QB and they aggressively try to address that need this draft, the value of the QBs in this draft will be overly inflated. Guys that should go in the middle rounds will be pushed to the top of the draft boards.

Using a higher pick on a position doesn't solve the problem. The QB class, as spoken by experts, is a difficult class to evaluate this year. When demand far outweighs supply and the supply is questionable the reaction shouldn't be "rush to get in when the getting is dubious." Rather, you'd snicker in the corner as other teams fight over marginal talent and you walk into the draft next year against slimmer competition, as many teams would have invested in QBs this year.

Because everyone else is doing it is not a good reason to invest in a QB early in the draft this year. It should be about the evaluation. If a player warrants the selection, so be it.

+1 agree with this completely

[mjpanzer]

+1 agree with this completely

Not to mention that if all these teams go QB crazy, that means that other players will drop to us. **** it. I'm hoping 4 QB go in the top 9 picks

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I like this thread, some pretty good points made so far. I'm also of the belief that this year is not a good year to address our future QB. We can find players at #10, that could be with us for 10-15 years, and pro-bowl caliber for most of that.

[addicted]

Odd, I see your post as making the opposite argument. If indeed teams are have dire needs for a QB and they aggressively try to address that need this draft, the value of the QBs in this draft will be overly inflated. Guys that should go in the middle rounds will be pushed to the top of the draft boards.

Using a higher pick on a position doesn't solve the problem. The QB class, as spoken by experts, is a difficult class to evaluate this year. When demand far outweighs supply and the supply is questionable the reaction shouldn't be "rush to get in when the getting is dubious." Rather, you'd snicker in the corner as other teams fight over marginal talent and you walk into the draft next year against slimmer competition, as many teams would have invested in QBs this year.

Because everyone else is doing it is not a good reason to invest in a QB early in the draft this year. It should be about the evaluation. If a player warrants the selection, so be it.

I see your point but believe the idea that taking a QB high in the draft sets yout team back years is no longer the case.

Did Carolina screw the pooch taking two QB's last year? Yes

Did Carolina set back there team 3-4 years because they screwed up last year on those two QB's? Not at all

It sucks they missed on those QB's. If they continued to try and turn chicken poop into chicken salad with those guys then you'd say in the end they hurt the team 3-4 years which was exactly what we did with Campbell. However Carolina isn't crying in there beer this year and is likely going to get back on the horse once again and try. In my mind your top priority starts, stops at the QB position until you fix the problem. If you haven't fixed it you still have the problem. Until you fix this problem your never going to do anything in the league and will suck like we have for decades.

Your point is not valid to me because not all of these teams that take a QB will feel as if they have the problem fixed. So if you have 6 top guys, and 2 of them fail, you've really only taken 4 teams out of the equation for needing a QB. In your example instead of 20 teams needing a QB as is this year, next year only 16 teams need QB's. Does it really change the landscape of needs if its 16 or 20? The answers no. Even best case all 6 guys are the answer for the teams who took them you still have 14 teams fighting it out to find a QB in 2012. With that many teams needing a QB your best approach is until you find your guy to ensure you grab your top guy or close to it when you can.

Once your QB question is answered it seems you suddenly see a turn around of team fortunes like we've seen recently with Indy, Eagles, Patriots, Atlanta, Green Bay, Giants, and so on. What did these team all do before they went from worst to first? They found a QB

If we snicker in the corner as you suggest the problems never resolved and just becomes a bigger issue for us. Why do you suppose the best QB's in the league today are always fighting it out for the playoffs/Superbowls? Because the games changed. What hasn't changed is the attitudes fans seem to have and the old way of thinking still exists. Sorry but this game in 2011 aint the same it was 20 years ago and it's time that the fanbase sped up with today's thinking. In my opinion.

[CommDownMan]

As I asked in the "trade down" thread, how would people feel about a Watt/Paea (or similar 2 DL picks) draft?

[addicted]

I like this thread, some pretty good points made so far. I'm also of the belief that this year is not a good year to address our future QB. We can find players at #10, that could be with us for 10-15 years, and pro-bowl caliber for most of that.

My problem with this is that your biggest problems not addressed like this and those 10-15 year guys would just turn out like my favorite Redskin over the past decade Chris Samuals. Amazing wasted career because we never took the damn time to find a QB to lead this club. 6 time probowler wasted because we lacked the heart and guts to demand our franchise QB. I don't want to see any more wasted careers. Not to mention in today's NFL who wants to stick around on a loser for very long? As soon as these premadonnas can they leave us unless we over pay them. While you see our players taking paycuts to get on a winner. It sucks and it's only fixed with a determination to keep trying until we get it right and that takes guts, nerve, accepting we might not get it right, and doing the tough work required to get it right.

[bedlamVR]

There are major concerns with Quinn at 10 - I am not sure if it is medical or his skills are too similar to Rak - just because a pick is not a QB doesn't mean they aint a bust . Doesn't mean we will not be set back by picking the wrong OL, DT OLB etc especially if we don't pick up a QB .

Thing is you can talk yourself out of any player at any time - so what if the analysts say this year will be rubbish for QBs - the same experts were saying Clausen was a sure thing just last year - The same experts were saying Locker could go No.1. last season- .... you have to look for the future at some point ..... fortune favors the bold and 10th pick is not a massive gamble in terms of finances or draft position .. . .

[mjpanzer]

There are major concerns with Quinn at 10 - I am not sure if it is medical or his skills are too similar to Rak - just because a pick is not a QB doesn't mean they aint a bust . Doesn't mean we will not be set back by picking the wrong OL, DT OLB etc especially if we don't pick up a QB .

Thing is you can talk yourself out of any player at any time - so what if the analysts say this year will be rubbish for QBs - the same experts were saying Clausen was a sure thing just last year - The same experts were saying Locker could go No.1. last season- .... you have to look for the future at some point ..... fortune favors the bold and 10th pick is not a massive gamble in terms of finances or draft position .. . .

I respect that opinion.

[Cen Tex Skins]

It's a weird draft for QB's this year; to me there is not really a elite QB or "franchise" QB in this years draft, but yet the prediction of QB's that are gonna be taken seem to be alot. Like Mayock said might be a record for QB's taken in first two rounds. Just confuses me why a team would take a QB in this years draft and set back your franchise another 3 or 4 years especially if the QB draft class is not expected to be great at all.

So I think we should pass on a QB in the first two rounds.[/QUOT

I believe plenty of the QB's in this years draft have the capability of being a "franchise"QB. Mallett,Locker,Dalton,Ponder...Now whether they any of them turn out to be the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady remains to be seen.IMO I want to see this team start winning and being competitive sooner as opposed to later.To do so we need a "franchise" QB one who can sit for a year maybe two and learn the system.There is no proof that the QB class next year is gonna be any better than this year's, we gotta take a chance!.Grab a QB this year and see what you got and fill in the other pieces through the draft and FA.If we hit a homerun with Locker,Dalton or whoever Shanny picks then awesome! if not..draft a QB next year and try again.It confuses me why people think we should NOT draft a QB this year.Truth is you just never know for sure, Mayock and all the other draft guys and scouts could be wrong.Mallet,Kaepernick,Stanzi,Ponder,Locker etc...could all end up in the right system and be pro-bowlers..time will tell.Maybe if we draft Locker or Gabbert they could be busts and set us back 2 or 3 years but not drafting one this year will set us back 3 to 4 years if not more.

[mjpanzer]

It's a weird draft for QB's this year; to me there is not really a elite QB or "franchise" QB in this years draft, but yet the prediction of QB's that are gonna be taken seem to be alot. Like Mayock said might be a record for QB's taken in first two rounds. Just confuses me why a team would take a QB in this years draft and set back your franchise another 3 or 4 years especially if the QB draft class is not expected to be great at all.

So I think we should pass on a QB in the first two rounds.[/QUOT

I believe plenty of the QB's in this years draft have the capability of being a "franchise"QB. Mallett,Locker,Dalton,Ponder...Now whether they any of them turn out to be the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady remains to be seen.IMO I want to see this team start winning and being competitive sooner as opposed to later.To do so we need a "franchise" QB one who can sit for a year maybe two and learn the system.There is no proof that the QB class next year is gonna be any better than this year's, we gotta take a chance!.Grab a QB this year and see what you got and fill in the other pieces through the draft and FA.If we hit a homerun with Locker,Dalton or whoever Shanny picks then awesome! if not..draft a QB next year and try again.It confuses me why people think we should NOT draft a QB this year.Truth is you just never know for sure, Mayock and all the other draft guys and scouts could be wrong.Mallet,Kaepernick,Stanzi,Ponder,Locker etc...could all end up in the right system and be pro-bowlers..time will tell.Maybe if we draft Locker or Gabbert they could be busts and set us back 2 or 3 years but not drafting one this year will set us back 3 to 4 years if not more.

You don't just spend a pick on a QB to take a "shot." You take a QB when you believe to the best of your abilities that a kid "has it." We need starters immediately, and none of these QB are popping out at anyone (analysts included).

[Cen Tex Skins]

You don't just spend a pick on a QB to take a "shot." You take a QB when you believe to the best of your abilities that a kid "has it." We need starters immediately, and none of these QB are popping out at anyone (analysts included).

Well we can agree to disagree because Shanny came here to build us a winner and I feel that Shanny believes that Locker..maybe Dalton or Ponder "has it".He WILL draft a QB this year and as I said before people can be wrong.Especially analysts.

[Madison Redskin]

Do you guys know what is worse than having a crappy QB corps? Spending a high draft pick on a quarterback who isn't worth a high draft pick because you have a crappy QB corps. The fact of the matter is, unless one of the QBs in this draft is a franchise QB, we shouldn't spend a 1st or a 2nd to acquire him, regardless of how miserable our quarterback situation might be.

Personally, I have serious reservations about all of the quarterbacks in this draft class. I don't think any of them are worth our 1st or 2nd pick, regardless of the fact that Grossman and Beck are mediocre at best.

[Cen Tex Skins]

Do you guys know what is worse than having a crappy QB corps? Spending a high draft pick on a quarterback who isn't worth a high draft pick because you have a crappy QB corps. The fact of the matter is, unless one of the QBs in this draft is a franchise QB, we shouldn't spend a 1st or a 2nd to acquire him, regardless of how miserable our quarterback situation might be.

Personally, I have serious reservations about all of the quarterbacks in this draft class. I don't think any of them are worth our 1st or 2nd pick, regardless of the fact that Grossman and Beck are mediocre at best.

I do agree with you that we shouldn't spend a first rd. pick on a QB who isn't worth a high draft pick..say Kaepernick or Stanzi.However We are not the only team who believes that Mallett or Locker for that matter has all the makings of a "franchise" QB.For neither one will still be there by the bottom of the 1st rd.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

My problem with this is that your biggest problems not addressed like this and those 10-15 year guys would just turn out like my favorite Redskin over the past decade Chris Samuals.

Completely agree, I wish his career mattered more in NFL history through playoff runs.

Amazing wasted career because we never took the damn time to find a QB to lead this club. 6 time probowler wasted because we lacked the heart and guts to demand our franchise QB. I don't want to see any more wasted careers.

I think you've forgotten, because the exact opposite of what you wrote happened. We spent first rounders on them during Chris Samuels career, and they turned out to be busts.

Patrick Ramsey and Jason Campbell. We all wanted Aaron Rodgers, and he was gone, but we just HAD to have our franchise QB...so we drafted Campbell even though he was a one year wonder and a project.

Not to mention in today's NFL who wants to stick around on a loser for very long? As soon as these premadonnas can they leave us unless we over pay them. While you see our players taking paycuts to get on a winner.

I hope you realize that usually winners have players leave because other teams are willing to pay fat contracts for "proven winning players." Every Super Bowl winning team has their FA's raided. And usually, they bust with the new team since they don't really fit the system.

For example, we overpaid for Randle El because he was from the Super Bowl winning Steelers.

Btw, who are our players that took paycuts to get on winners? I must be blanking because right now I can't think of any.

It sucks and it's only fixed with a determination to keep trying until we get it right and that takes guts, nerve, accepting we might not get it right, and doing the tough work required to get it right.

Tough work such as drafting more busts? Nah, that's easy. The really tough work is in avoiding the busts despite the fan base screaming for a QB. Going against the grain for the betterment of the team when criticism abounds, that's the guts and nerve you need in a front office. Just bowing to the fan base to appease them so they'll shut up for a couple of months...that is the opposite of what you're saying.

[Ashburn Dave]

Do you guys know what is worse than having a crappy QB corps? Spending a high draft pick on a quarterback who isn't worth a high draft pick because you have a crappy QB corps. The fact of the matter is, unless one of the QBs in this draft is a franchise QB, we shouldn't spend a 1st or a 2nd to acquire him, regardless of how miserable our quarterback situation might be.

Personally, I have serious reservations about all of the quarterbacks in this draft class. I don't think any of them are worth our 1st or 2nd pick, regardless of the fact that Grossman and Beck are mediocre at best.

A voice of reason.

Teams will be drafting QB's early and often but the problem is that they will be reaching because of the lack of free agency and they could not address their QB needs prior to the draft.

Let's not get caught up in the QB run and instead use it to our advantage.

This is what I would do but the problem is that I feel Shanny has to have his guy and he's going to get him.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

A voice of reason.

Teams will be drafting QB's early but the problem is that they will be reaching because of the lack of free agency and they could not address their QB needs prior to the draft.

Let's not get caught up in the QB run and instead use it to our advantage.

Yeah. I really don't like the idea of drafting a QB, just to say that we drafted a QB. Which is essentially what you do when you draft a "project." I'm in favor of not drafting projects at QB, since it is rare that they ever develop.

[addicted]

I think you've forgotten, because the exact opposite of what you wrote happened. We spent first rounders on them during Chris Samuels career, and they turned out to be busts.

Patrick Ramsey and Jason Campbell. We all wanted Aaron Rodgers, and he was gone, but we just HAD to have our franchise QB...so we drafted Campbell even though he was a one year wonder and a project.

No Sir I have not forgotten we threw away draft picks to take those two guys. My problem here with us using two first rounders is how we let all of the other years go without taking someone else, how we treated the position like any Tom or Dick would work for us, how we took Carlos Rogers letting Aaron Rodgers slip past us so we could throw away draft picks to take Jason Campbell. If we just gave the QB position the attention it so desperately needs from this franchise and made it a priority then Rogers is our pick there, Instead I see us doing this same old stupid mistake this year too, we will let the good QB's go thinking that we can get away with anyone in there and take a Defensive player and lose out again. What I'm saying is simply taking a low round QB isn't enough. Nothing is enough until we find our guy, We must find our man.

I hope you realize that usually winners have players leave because other teams are willing to pay fat contracts for "proven winning players." Every Super Bowl winning team has their FA's raided. And usually, they bust with the new team since they don't really fit the system.

And I hope you realise that we aren't the team players are dying to come to anymore. We aren't the team players are giving discounts to get here. Why aren't we? Because we are the bottom feeder in this confrence year after year because we haven't done the tough thing and gotten the Franchise QB and instead year after year throw away opportunities on Defensive players. I'm guessing it happens again and again its a huge mistake for us. We simply don't treat the QB position as seriously as we must, until we do we continue to be the bottom feeders in this league.

For example, we overpaid for Randle El because he was from the Super Bowl winning Steelers.

Btw, who are our players that took paycuts to get on winners? I must be blanking because right now I can't think of any.

Shawn Springs comes to mind immediately as does Ryan Clark. Lavar Arrington left here giving up money to get off this train wreck as did Coles to get on a better run team. Just to name a few guys

Tough work such as drafting more busts? Nah, that's easy. The really tough work is in avoiding the busts despite the fan base screaming for a QB. Going against the grain for the betterment of the team when criticism abounds, that's the guts and nerve you need in a front office. Just bowing to the fan base to appease them so they'll shut up for a couple of months...that is the opposite of what you're saying.

Like we have done every year for the last 20 years with the exception of three guys - Schuler, Ramsey, Campbell. 17 times in 20+ years we have ignored the most important position on the field thinking we could get by with some other teams trash. What do we have to show for that Sir? Absolutely jack nothing. What have we consistantly been over that time peroid? The worst bottom feeders in the confrence. And yet you want this to continue? Sad thing is I'm not surprised and I expect the losing to continue on Thursday. We have become the Arizona Cardnials and will never be good again until we find our franchise QB. Like it or not

[Maxima2000]

There are major concerns with Quinn at 10 - I am not sure if it is medical or his skills are too similar to Rak - just because a pick is not a QB doesn't mean they aint a bust . Doesn't mean we will not be set back by picking the wrong OL, DT OLB etc especially if we don't pick up a QB .

Thing is you can talk yourself out of any player at any time - so what if the analysts say this year will be rubbish for QBs - the same experts were saying Clausen was a sure thing just last year - The same experts were saying Locker could go No.1. last season- .... you have to look for the future at some point ..... fortune favors the bold and 10th pick is not a massive gamble in terms of finances or draft position .. . .

I am really glad that someone finally agrees with my position on Quinn. It just seems to me like most people are totally overlooking how he missed the entire 2010 season, how he isn't a 3-4 OLB yet, and how he has IMO above average bust potential

[B55Green]

Don't see why it matters, we're gonna need a QB one way or another, just like we're gonna need holes fixed in every position. Whether we get that QB now or later, don't see the problem. I actually like this draft class and I say why the hell not grab one. Either way, whatever we take I'm going to be happy because it's needed.