DCdribble: Just Say NO to QB in First or Second Round.

[Cen Tex Skins]

Don't see why it matters, we're gonna need a QB one way or another, just like we're gonna need holes fixed in every position. Whether we get that QB now or later, don't see the problem. I actually like this draft class and I say why the hell not grab one. Either way, whatever we take I'm going to be happy because it's needed.

Amen! I agree

[mjpanzer]

A voice of reason.

Teams will be drafting QB's early and often but the problem is that they will be reaching because of the lack of free agency and they could not address their QB needs prior to the draft.

Let's not get caught up in the QB run and instead use it to our advantage.

This is what I would do but the problem is that I feel Shanny has to have his guy and he's going to get him.

Exactly. That being said if there is a guy in the first or second round that Shanahan LOVES, I respect him pulling the trigger. The thing is, I don't think that guy exists. Is anyone really sure that if Cam Newton and Gabbert are both there @10 that Shanahan takes one? I'm not, because both players are just getting hyped up because they are this year's best QB class; it happens every year! Notice how there is never a season where the media says, "yup, no QBs at all?" Of course you don't, because hypingup QB prospect sells; they are sexy.

Last year Colt McCoy and Clausen got hyped to amazing heights, and tons of members of this board jumped on that bandwagon. Well, it turns out neither player is much of a baller, and I guarantee Sexy Rexy could win more games than Colt or Clausen at this point in their career.

We are a franchise in desperate need of a franchise QB. I can agree with that. But we are also a fanbase that goes loko when the chance of one appears (Cult of Colt anyone?). Relax, the guys this year suck. Shanahan will make the moves when the time comes (like he did with Cutler). We will be alright.

[MurrayH81]

In my opinion, you cannot successfully draft a "franchise quarterback" unless you have two complimentary pieces:

1) A quality offensive line composed of young players and backups (why young? -- to match the relative age of the quarterback so they can grow together).

2) A decent running game, so the "franchise quarterback isn't back to pass every play, with defensive players blitzing from everyone becase there is no running threat.

We don't have either of those two things. We have a young, quality left tackle. That is it. We need at least 4 more young studs on that O-line to be successful. Can we get that via this draft? I don't know.

If we don't do everything possible to draft the o-line needed, it would not matter if we traded with New England or Indiannapolis for their starters, we would not be successful because you cannot run or throw when the Defense is in your backfield 2 seconds after the snap.

[mjpanzer]

In my opinion, you cannot successfully draft a "franchise quarterback" unless you have two complimentary pieces:

1) A quality offensive line composed of young players and backups (why young? -- to match the relative age of the quarterback so they can grow together).

2) A decent running game, so the "franchise quarterback isn't back to pass every play, with defensive players blitzing from everyone becase there is no running threat.

We don't have either of those two things. We have a young, quality left tackle. That is it. We need at least 4 more young studs on that O-line to be successful. Can we get that via this draft? I don't know.

If we don't do everything possible to draft the o-line needed, it would not matter if we traded with New England or Indiannapolis for their starters, we would not be successful because you cannot run or throw when the Defense is in your backfield 2 seconds after the snap.

I completely agree. I imagine Shanahan's plan will be to keep building until the guy he wants comes. How pumped will we all be in 2 years when we draft our QB and he has a fresh young OL protecting him, and a hot young defense dominating the other side of the ball? That is what we all want, and we just have to learn to be patient to obtain it.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

No Sir I have not forgotten we threw away draft picks to take those two guys. My problem here with us using two first rounders is how we let all of the other years go without taking someone else, how we treated the position like any Tom or Dick would work for us, how we took Carlos Rogers letting Aaron Rodgers slip past us so we could throw away draft picks to take Jason Campbell. If we just gave the QB position the attention it so desperately needs from this franchise and made it a priority then Rogers is our pick there, Instead I see us doing this same old stupid mistake this year too, we will let the good QB's go thinking that we can get away with anyone in there and take a Defensive player and lose out again. What I'm saying is simply taking a low round QB isn't enough. Nothing is enough until we find our guy, We must find our man.

Fair point about misplaying that Campbell draft. Rodgers was (I believe) the highest rated QB despite Alex Smith going #1. We clearly should have taken him #9 with the Rogers pick. Hindsight is always 20/20 though. The point still remains that we drafted a QB in the first round there.

And I hope you realise that we aren't the team players are dying to come to anymore. We aren't the team players are giving discounts to get here. Why aren't we? Because we are the bottom feeder in this confrence year after year because we haven't done the tough thing and gotten the Franchise QB and instead year after year throw away opportunities on Defensive players. I'm guessing it happens again and again its a huge mistake for us. We simply don't treat the QB position as seriously as we must, until we do we continue to be the bottom feeders in this league.

If this were true than more than just aging vets past their prime would be signing for less than market value with the Patriots. And the Colts would actually have a good team instead of just Peyton Manning + 3 other good players.

No team is like that in football anymore. The players will go after the contract.

But to answer your question on how come aging past their prime vets don't treat us like the Patriots...they do. Willie Parker. Larry Johnson. Maake Kemoeatu. Vonnie Holiday. They signed for very little to play with us.

Shawn Springs comes to mind immediately as does Ryan Clark. Lavar Arrington left here giving up money to get off this train wreck as did Coles to get on a better run team. Just to name a few guys

Lavar Arrington played his way out of the starting lineup, and then was out of the league like 2 seasons later. It was addition by subtraction. The coaches hated him, they couldn't rely on him, he lost his starting job.

You're mistaken. Coles SUCKED with us. We traded him for Santana.

Shawn Springs was always injured, and was old. We released him. He wasn't a FA that left. We released him. The Pats picked him up, and then they released him a season later.

Ryan Clark did not leave us to play for the Steelers for less money. The Steelers were also definitely not a "winner" back then. He signed with them pre-Roesthlisberger.

Like we have done every year for the last 20 years with the exception of three guys - Schuler, Ramsey, Campbell. 17 times in 20+ years we have ignored the most important position on the field thinking we could get by with some other teams trash. What do we have to show for that Sir? Absolutely jack nothing. What have we consistantly been over that time peroid? The worst bottom feeders in the confrence. And yet you want this to continue? Sad thing is I'm not surprised and I expect the losing to continue on Thursday. We have become the Arizona Cardnials and will never be good again until we find our franchise QB. Like it or not

You have to give the QB's you drafted time to acclimate themselves to the NFL. Did you want us to immediately draft another QB the year after we got Ramsey or Campbell? Whoops, you weren't pro-bowl as a rookie...we need to draft another QB next season?

I'm not sure what you're expecting. Each QB that you draft in the 1st round will be with your team for like 4-5 seasons. So in that 20 year time period that you listed, we could have squeezed only 1 other QB in there (late 90's).

I'm confused about what you expect.

I hope you understand, that of this "deep with talented projects" draft class, the NFL will be lucky if 1 of them isn't a bust. The last year a class was like this that I remember was 1999, and McNabb had the best career of them.

[mjpanzer]

Fair point about misplaying that Campbell draft. Rodgers was (I believe) the highest rated QB despite Alex Smith going #1. We clearly should have taken him #9 with the Rogers pick. Hindsight is always 20/20 though. The point still remains that we drafted a QB in the first round there.

If this were true than more than just aging vets past their prime would be signing for less than market value with the Patriots. And the Colts would actually have a good team instead of just Peyton Manning + 3 other good players.

No team is like that in football anymore. The players will go after the contract.

But to answer your question on how come aging past their prime vets don't treat us like the Patriots...they do. Willie Parker. Larry Johnson. Maake Kemoeatu. Vonnie Holiday. They signed for very little to play with us.

Lavar Arrington played his way out of the starting lineup, and then was out of the league like 2 seasons later. It was addition by subtraction. The coaches hated him, they couldn't rely on him, he lost his starting job.

You're mistaken. Coles SUCKED with us. We traded him for Santana.

Shawn Springs was always injured, and was old. We released him. He wasn't a FA that left. We released him. The Pats picked him up, and then they released him a season later.

Ryan Clark did not leave us to play for the Steelers for less money. The Steelers were also definitely not a "winner" back then. He signed with them pre-Roesthlisberger.

You have to give the QB's you drafted time to acclimate themselves to the NFL. Did you want us to immediately draft another QB the year after we got Ramsey or Campbell? Whoops, you weren't pro-bowl as a rookie...we need to draft another QB next season?

I'm not sure what you're expecting. Each QB that you draft in the 1st round will be with your team for like 4-5 seasons. So in that 20 year time period that you listed, we could have squeezed only 1 other QB in there (late 90's).

I'm confused about what you expect.

I hope you understand, that of this "deep with talented projects" draft class, the NFL will be lucky if 1 of them isn't a bust. The last year a class was like this that I remember was 1999, and McNabb had the best career of them.

Exactly. You don't just blindly draft QB hoping one will pan out. When you grab one, you need to take the time to really give him a chance to succeed. It is hard for me to image any franchise that drafts back to back QB. The Panthers are about to do it, and there is a reason they are at the bottom of the totem pole.

[brasi]

I agree with the OP.

Unless Gabbert falls to 10, then maybe pick him...but we have two serviceable QBs on the roster to use while we rebuild. The economical way to get better is to pick best available player that we need.

Unfortunately, QB is not our greatest need. If we get a Gabbert...who does he throw to? Who does hand off to? What defense protects any lead he may get us?

My vote would be to avoid the sexy pick and to stock up our OL, or get a second great pass rusher.

Trading down, we could get 3-4 starters in this draft. Next season, we can address QB.

Who knows, maybe Grossman squeaks out 10 wins and we make the playoffs on a fluke.

We've made several mistakes on QBs in recent years. We have to pay for those sometime. Why not now?

Just my $.02

[amm0409]

Read the rest of the article here

FYI I maintaing skins take Quinn in Round 1, Cannon Round 2.

HTTR.

PS: If you strongly disagree or agree with me, it would be lovely if you could leave a comment on my site to spark some debate. Thanks!

Nothing wrong with that scenario. Lets say we get a couple free agent OL would you be happy with Ryan Williams in the Second? Is it because of injury or that he might already be taken?

[redskins55]

And what say yes to Rex Grossman and John Beck to lead us into the future?

When are people going to wake up to the fact that you can make a case this year for all of these teams needing a QB to either become the franchise guy or to groom when the regular starter is finished playing:

Buffalo Bills

Miami Dolphins

New England Patriots

Dallas Cowboys

Philadelphia Eagles

Washington Redskins

Cincinnati Bengals

Cleveland Browns

Minnesota Vikings

Indianapolis Colts

Jacksonville Jaguars

Tennessee Titans

Carolina Panthers

Denver Broncos

Kansas City Chiefs

Oakland Raiders

Arizona Cardinals

San Francisco 49ers

Seattle Seahawks

With so many teams needing signal callers why would anyone want to wait until round 5 to try and get one of them? It doesn't make any sense to stand around while everyone else fixes the QB issues they have and think that we can wait until round 5 to get someone. QB's take time to develop, we are going to be the NFCE bottom feeders once again this year so why not get a jump on the maturation process required for a rookie adjusting to the speed of this game now? The answer is clear to me, if we want to win again sometime we need to groom ourselves a franchise QB or we could continue the losing we've all come to love so much and take another defensive player in the first round while other teams accept they have a problem and take all the good QB's and be left in the cold. I actually expect us to do that, we haven't learned anything from our past mistakes so why would that change now?

And considering the fact that we play the AFC East and NFC East this year I dont see how we could finish higher than any of these teams. Especially if we trade McNabb, dont resign rogers,Moss, or McIntoch. So we should draft the best players available, then go for Luck next year.

[BeefJerky]

As I asked in the "trade down" thread, how would people feel about a Watt/Paea (or similar 2 DL picks) draft?

I wouldn't be against this at all. Would set up our D pretty nicely.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I wouldn't be against this at all. Would set up our D pretty nicely.

I mean, I wouldn't be against this at all either. But it's extremely unlikely. If we trade down, it can't be very far, otherwise Watt's gone. And even if we do trade down and still land Watt, we'd have to trade up just to get Paea, since he'll likely be gone by pick #41.

I love both Watt and Paea though. I think you can do some serious damage with those two on the d-line. Add in Carriker when we don't do a Nickel, and that line is very very stout.

[mistertim]

Unless Gabbert falls to 10, then maybe pick him...but we have two serviceable QBs on the roster to use while we rebuild. The economical way to get better is to pick best available player that we need.

We have one QB who some would consider "serviceable" and another who is an unknown and has played in a total of 5 games for 3 different teams over the past 4 seasons. Also, a QB is THE most important position to a rebuilding team. Why do you think there have been so many teams that have taken a QB high in the draft even when they were struggling to put together the rest of a team? Hell, Parcells has admitted that he should have taken Matt Ryan. Sure, he got a perennial pro bowl LT but that hasn't exactly done wonders for them since they are in the doldrums as far as QB goes.

Unfortunately, QB is not our greatest need. If we get a Gabbert...who does he throw to? Who does hand off to? What defense protects any lead he may get us?

I would say QB is our single greatest need, especially over the long term. We haven't had a franchise QB in a very long time. We have had top 5 defenses, extremely good running games, very good O lines. Where have they gotten us while we've had nothing but mediocre and stopgap QBs the whole time? A couple of playoff appearances in random years. OL is important, D is important, running game is important. But in today's NFL you simply aren't going to be a perennial contender unless you have a good QB.

[addicted]

And considering the fact that we play the AFC East and NFC East this year I dont see how we could finish higher than any of these teams. Especially if we trade McNabb, dont resign rogers,Moss, or McIntoch. So we should draft the best players available, then go for Luck next year.

So in other words you suggest we don't win a single game next year. Great strategy

---------- Post added April-27th-2011 at 05:46 PM ----------

Fair point about misplaying that Campbell draft. Rodgers was (I believe) the highest rated QB despite Alex Smith going #1. We clearly should have taken him #9 with the Rogers pick. Hindsight is always 20/20 though. The point still remains that we drafted a QB in the first round there.

Hindsight?

Seriously you don't get this at all.

When you need a QB you take a gawd dang QB!!!

Only if you are the Redskins do you do something as stupid as letting the best QB in the class go and think that just anyone can play that position for us. Did taking Rogers help us any? Hell no.

My entire point here is this, excuse my yelling but you still don't get it, WE TAKE A QB FIRST IF WE NEED A QB!!!

Taking Rogers was about as stupid a thing you could have done there. We don't value the positon as a team or as a fanbase. Look above this post, people saying Grossman is "serviceable"? WTF man that's the exact thinking we have had here for the past 20 years and have seen this team win ONE stinking division title in that 20 year time frame. Golly Gee Willikers Homer I wonder why????

I can't seriously argue with you about this. You've seen what has transpired here yourself and taken another viewpoint from it that I have. Your "recap" on past players doesn't actually hold any water as far as the truth goes but I guess it does make it sound like the last 20 freaking years haven't been the absolute drizzling poops for all of us like it was. That's another point. When is this fanbase going to finally wake the hell up and demand a real life FRANCHISE QB? I mean why wouldn't you want one of those? Forget it, arguing with you is going to go nowhere so I give up. Here is to us sucking, winning one devision title in the next 20 years since all you want to do is pile up the losses by repeating the same stupid mistakes over and over again.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

So in other words you suggest we don't win a single game next year. Great strategy

Like you, I don't get the desire to tank games to get Luck. I can see trading picks for him, sure. But mostly I just think people don't realize that he's going #1, so we'd have to win a maximum of 2 games next year, likely less.

Hindsight?

Seriously you don't get this at all.

When you need a QB you take a gawd dang QB!!!

Only if you are the Redskins do you do something as stupid as letting the best QB in the class go and think that just anyone can play that position for us. Did taking Rogers help us any? Hell no.

I was agreeing with you there about the Rogers vs Rodgers situation. I'm not sure if you're reading my posts.

My entire point here is this, excuse my yelling but you still don't get it, WE TAKE A QB FIRST IF WE NEED A QB!!!

Taking Rogers was about as stupid a thing you could have done there. We don't value the positon as a team or as a fanbase.

Except we do. We've spent most of our last 20 years hoping that our 1st round draft picks at QB pan out, instead they wind up being busts. And then we overreact by trading for vets like McNabb, Brad Johnson (who we gave up way too much for), and Mark Brunell

Look above this post, people saying Grossman is "serviceable"? WTF man

I completely agree with you here. I've seen every Grossman game in a Bears uniform, and then his games here...he just hasn't improved his mechanics and hasn't erased his disastrous habits when under pressure. Such as panicking and throwing off his back foot. I don't view him as serviceable.

I can't seriously argue with you about this. You've seen what has transpired here yourself and taken another viewpoint from it that I have.

I think you have a serious case of Revisionist History.

Our franchise has been crippled for 20 or so years by completely misplaying the QB situation and thinking that drafting any old QB would work or trading for a vet is an "instant fix". What I'm trying to do is say that just drafting a QB to say that we drafted a QB doesn't work. And it's what's doomed us in the past. Jason Campbell, Patrick Ramsey, and Heath Shuler took 12 years away from our franchise.

What you are advocating for, is to just take any random QB in this years draft because we need one. Who cares if he fits the system. Who cares if he has accuracy issues. Who cares if he can't make a touch throw to save his life.

What you essentially are saying, is that you want to repeat the disaster that was Ramsey, Shuler, and Campbell.

I think I understand that you don't want to trade down from the #10 and grab a QB lower in the round, since that would be repeating the Aaron Rodgers mistake. However, there isn't really a QB like Aaron Rodgers in this years draft. Aaron Rodgers would be rated higher than the QB's in this draft.

Your "recap" on past players doesn't actually hold any water as far as the truth goes

Ok. So you're saying that we didn't actually trade Laveranues Coles for Santana Moss? It must have been some weird optical illusion then, because I was sure we traded Coles for Moss.

but I guess it does make it sound like the last 20 freaking years haven't been the absolute drizzling poops for all of us like it was. That's another point. When is this fanbase going to finally wake the hell up and demand a real life FRANCHISE QB? I mean why wouldn't you want one of those? Forget it, arguing with you is going to go nowhere so I give up. Here is to us sucking, winning one devision title in the next 20 years since all you want to do is pile up the losses by repeating the same stupid mistakes over and over again.

I think the difference between you and me, is that I want a real life Franchise QB. Whereas you seem to be content with anybody at all at the QB spot, just because we have a need at QB. I'm willing to wait for a real life Franchise QB. I don't want to repeat Ramsey/Campbell/Shuler.

If you look at this draft, there is only one QB that isn't a huge project or just unfixable from the start, but he's got poor mobility and some character issues (overblown though).

[mjpanzer]

So in other words you suggest we don't win a single game next year. Great strategy

---------- Post added April-27th-2011 at 05:46 PM ----------

Hindsight?

Seriously you don't get this at all.

When you need a QB you take a gawd dang QB!!!

Only if you are the Redskins do you do something as stupid as letting the best QB in the class go and think that just anyone can play that position for us. Did taking Rogers help us any? Hell no.

My entire point here is this, excuse my yelling but you still don't get it, WE TAKE A QB FIRST IF WE NEED A QB!!!

Taking Rogers was about as stupid a thing you could have done there. We don't value the positon as a team or as a fanbase. Look above this post, people saying Grossman is "serviceable"? WTF man that's the exact thinking we have had here for the past 20 years and have seen this team win ONE stinking division title in that 20 year time frame. Golly Gee Willikers Homer I wonder why????

I can't seriously argue with you about this. You've seen what has transpired here yourself and taken another viewpoint from it that I have. Your "recap" on past players doesn't actually hold any water as far as the truth goes but I guess it does make it sound like the last 20 freaking years haven't been the absolute drizzling poops for all of us like it was. That's another point. When is this fanbase going to finally wake the hell up and demand a real life FRANCHISE QB? I mean why wouldn't you want one of those? Forget it, arguing with you is going to go nowhere so I give up. Here is to us sucking, winning one devision title in the next 20 years since all you want to do is pile up the losses by repeating the same stupid mistakes over and over again.

While I agree it is a huge part of the equation, you cannot JUST draft based of need. Remember all those WR we took in the 3rd round? Yeah, how is that working out? If the QB is there that is awesome, we take him. Still, I believe, as do many analysts, that there just aren't any great QB worth taking a shot on.

[mjpanzer]

Well this thread just became particularly relevant