Why not Cam Newton? An argument, and a comparison with Josh Freeman

[Bat~man]

Some more food for thought:

- He's the first QB in SEC history to throw for 2,000 yards and run for 1,000.

- In the Iron Bowl versus Alabama, down 24-0, he lead Auburn to a 28-27 comeback win.

- He lead Auburn with a demolition of South Carolina in the SEC Championship game with 6 TDs in a 56-17 win.

- Down the stretch in the last 5 games of the season, he threw 15 touchdowns to only 1 interception.

- He led the whole SEC in rushing.

- He is the only player in the nation to run for 170 yards 5 different times.

If there's anyone that can coach him to be an elite quarterback, it's Mike Shanahan. And if there's any offensive system that he's best suited to thrive in, it's our offense.

Is there anyone who could run the play-action bootleg better than Newton? He single-handedly dictates how the weakside defends every run. And his unique physical gifts make him most apt to connect on the home-run plays that Kyle Shanahan's passing offense thrives (and relies) on.

He'll pick up far more 3rd downs (and 3rd and longs) with his running ability. He completely changes our teams could defend us. He makes everyone else better just by being the physical threat he is, sort of like Vick in Atlanta, before he ever learned how to actually play quarterback and where his lazy work habits and poor leadership held himself, and the team, back.

I'll give you his college credits, he's unstoppable right now. I'm just quite unsure how you think this offense is perfect for Newton? Is it Kyles offense that Matt Schaub ran so well? Those QBs are nothing alike.

---------- Post added December-28th-2010 at 04:05 AM ----------

And I 100 percent disagree with the notion that people are underrating him due to race. The reason he isn't a shoo in for the top spot is again because of the 1 year or production and the system he plays in.

Saying that people aren't sold on Cam because of race is quite frankly ignorant

Exactly, was race the issue for Tebow when he clearly had a better college career over alonger period of time? Newton will prolly go higher than Tebow in the draft

[SkinsTillIDie]

And I 100 percent disagree with the notion that people are underrating him due to race. The reason he isn't a shoo in for the top spot is again because of the 1 year or production and the system he plays in.

Saying that people aren't sold on Cam because of race is quite frankly ignorant

Again, I ask -- how does Cam Newton compare to Akili Smith or Jamarcus Russell? Why are these some of the first players to pop into people's heads when they think of Cam Newton and his NFL potential?

Racism exists, not by all and not by most, but by some. I think it's irresponsible to ignore given it's pervasiveness, even on these boards.

And when Brian Mitchell says that he hopes the Redskins don't get another black quarterback, I think it's an important issue to discuss.

EDIT

And I will add, the arguments to his small sample size and system are fair. The race issue is entirely unrelated, but I felt it was an issue enough to be mentioned.

Regarding the small sample size: I think it is understandably a question mark, but I answer with: no other quarterback, in one year of play, has been as dynamic or put up the numbers that he has. And he did dominate in the same manner at the JUCO level the year before. I tried to address this in the OP without making it too much longer than it already is.

As well as the system -- Sam Bradford was questioned regarding his "spread" offense. Jimmy Clausen played in Charlie Weis' "pro-syle" offense. I think it's been proven that the type of offense played in college doesn't necessarily determine whether or not one will excel or bust.

But again, these are valid questions, and will be dissected from now until April.

[Skinzfever2010]

And I 100 percent disagree with the notion that people are underrating him due to race. The reason he isn't a shoo in for the top spot is again because of the 1 year or production and the system he plays in.

Saying that people aren't sold on Cam because of race is quite frankly ignorant

Many on this board can be down right ignorant sometime (especially as of late)

[darrelgreenie]

Good post OP.

But, i don't think the Redskins are in a position to trade up for anybody.

I agree w/ about Cam unique skillset, i think he has he potential to make a great pro QB provided the offense is built around him and the staff is serious about developing him.

Also, i think Cam skillset is similiar to Vince Young except Cam has a better throwing motion a bigger arm, bigger frame and is a better runner.

And despite the perceptions about Vince Young its not his on the field performance that's been his weakness its his thin skin and general knuckleheadedness for lack of a better word.(Vince has good career winning % and was playing at a high level this prior to his inury)

With that being said i don't see Shanny drafting Newton even if he'a available when we pick.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

Virginia Tech had a great defense in 1999 with Vick. He was the X factor that put the team over the top, similar to Cam (Auburn also has a great D)

The only reason that Cam isn't the number 1 prospect is a) his small sample size (1 year) and 2) the offense he plays in

Luck plays in a pro style attack and has 2 years of great play, which is why it is much easier to project him to be a franchise QB in the NFL. Cam has the physical ability for sure, will he have the ability to run and execute an NFL offense, read coverages and play a pro style game? Thats what holds his draft position back

Not racism

Oh theres a hint of racisim to it no doubt. The whole he cant read a defense, cant run an nfl offense, read coverages stems back to the whole blacks arent smart enough to play qb thinking. Michael Vick was a once in a lifetime talent thats why he was an exception. Tebow is the only white qb i heard them have questions about as far as reading a defense and people using his athleticsim against him. But im not trying to turn this into a racial thing...but it is what it is.

But Andrew Luck is the real deal too and I have no problem with him being considered the top qb. I think he is like a Peyton Manning and will be one of the greats when its all said and done.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Again, I ask -- how does Cam Newton compare to Akili Smith or Jamarcus Russell? Why are these some of the first players to pop into people's heads when they think of Cam Newton and his NFL potential?

Racism exists, not by all and not by most, but by some. I think it's irresponsible to ignore given it's pervasiveness, even on these boards.

And when Brian Mitchell says that he hopes the Redskins don't get another black quarterback, I think it's an important issue to discuss.

Where is the comparision with Russel or Smith? I haven't seen it. If you can point to it I would love to see it.

I think Cam has amazing potential. I just have a tough time putting him at number 1 right now after 1 season of play and running a spread run offense, which doesn't have the most diverse passing game.

His SEC title game was a work of art, he was simply a man amongst boys out there. If he chooses to stay in school, repeats this season and comes out next year, he is easily the top pick

I just don't see where race has played a part in this at all.

[Conn]

Take the race element out of it, and this is a great thread, which will contribute great discussion about Cam Newton. And we'll need a place for that leading up to the draft, no doubt.

I hope to see such well-constructed threads and arguments for each of the other QB's who declare, because its obvious that each have their own "followers" here.

Again, take the race portion out of it, which is unnecessary, and this will be a great thread.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Oh theres a hint of racisim to it no doubt. The whole he cant read a defense, cant run an nfl offense, read coverages stems back to the whole blacks arent smart enough to play qb thinking. Michael Vick was a once in a lifetime talent thats why he was an exception. Tebow is the only white qb i heard them have questions about as far as reading a defense and people using his athleticsim against him. But im not trying to turn this into a racial thing...but it is what it is.

.

As opposed to the run first spread option system Cam is in? Thats why the questions come up.

Eric Crouch put up freakish numbers and was a great athlete but never played a down as QB in the NFL.

Cam will be an NFL QB, but these questions are legit, and not because he is black. It is very tough to project his NFL ability at this time based on 1 season of play

[Bat~man]

Take the race element out of it, and this is a great thread, which will contribute great discussion about Cam Newton. And we'll need a place for that leading up to the draft, no doubt.

I hope to see such well-constructed threads and arguments for each of the other QB's who declare, because its obvious that each have their own "followers" here.

Again, take the race portion out of it, which is unnecessary, and this will be a great thread.

I agree, the race thing is a cheap way to try and win a debate, very cheap.

---------- Post added December-28th-2010 at 04:14 AM ----------

Cam Newton is an outstanding college QB, and if he is going to be successful in the NFL.. sadly, he needs a coach like Andy Reid who obviously knows how to use him. If we couldn't have any success with McNabb, there is no way we can get the most out of a guy like Newton.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Where is the comparision with Russel or Smith? I haven't seen it. If you can point to it I would love to see it.

I think Cam has amazing potential. I just have a tough time putting him at number 1 right now after 1 season of play and running a spread run offense, which doesn't have the most diverse passing game.

His SEC title game was a work of art, he was simply a man amongst boys out there. If he chooses to stay in school, repeats this season and comes out next year, he is easily the top pick

I just don't see where race has played a part in this at all.

I've seen it plenty of places, but this thread jumps to mind. http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?341693-Getting-our-franchise-quarterback

Why isn't Cam Newton compared to Ben Roethlisberger? Equivalent size (6'6 250 vs 6'5 242), both came out as juniors, both with one tremendous season of college football.

Again, I feel that most can disregard race when evaluating quarterback prospects. But not all. And football in America has a long history of a curious relationship with black quarterbacks (from the high school level; to the long-standing stereotype that blacks weren't "smart enough" to play quarterback; to Doug Williams' super bowl press conference; to McNabb's treatment in Philly; etc. etc.).

[Conn]

I agree, the race thing is a cheap way to try and win a debate, very cheap.

Exactly. And even if some believe it, hell, even if some of it is TRUE (which I'm not advocating), it doesn't matter in relation to discussing him as a prospect. And that's what should be being discussed in The Stadium. Otherwise, take it to the tailgate, and tread carefully.

[Bat~man]

I've seen it plenty of places, but this thread jumps to mind. http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?341693-Getting-our-franchise-quarterback

Why isn't Cam Newton compared to Ben Roethlisberger? Equivalent size (6'6 250 vs 6'5 242), both came out as juniors, both with one tremendous season of college football.

Again, I feel that most can disregard race when evaluating quarterback prospects. But not all. And football in America has a long history of a curious relationship with black quarterbacks (from the high school level; to the long-standing stereotype that blacks weren't "smart enough" to play quarterback; to Doug Williams' super bowl press conference; to McNabb's treatment in Philly; etc. etc.).

Because Ben didn't come from a spread offense.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

As opposed to the run first spread option system Cam is in? Thats why the questions come up.

Eric Crouch put up freakish numbers and was a great athlete but never played a down as QB in the NFL.

Cam will be an NFL QB, but these questions are legit, and not because he is black. It is very tough to project his NFL ability at this time based on 1 season of play

I agree and I wasnt even sold on him at the begining of the season. But as he continued to dominate week after week i became a believer. Again im not trying to make this a racial thing but if you think race doesnt play a role in it then your just naive. Racisim exist today just like it did 40 years ago except today people arent out in the open with it. You can name a few white qb's that didnt get a chance but my point is that EVERY black qb that comes out has to deal with that question or sterotype. You see the difference? Like I said i really dont want to make this about race and want to keep it strictly on sports but i was just responding to your statement.

[SkinsTillIDie]

I'll give you his college credits, he's unstoppable right now. I'm just quite unsure how you think this offense is perfect for Newton? Is it Kyles offense that Matt Schaub ran so well? Those QBs are nothing alike.

The play-action bootleg passes are obviously best run with quarterbacks who are mobile. And someone with the elite athletic gifts as Newton can make our running game so much better -- just the threat that he may keep the ball and run with it (or pass) makes defenses second guess every play that looks like a run from the onset.

Not to mention that he has an absolutely cannon of an arm, and has proven to be very accurate on deep passes this year. On such a bootleg play-action pass, for example, he'll be able to create plenty of time to wait for receivers to get open deep. Shanahan's system thrived on big plays, especially to Andre Johnson, and Newton possesses the attributes to give us the opportunity to hit on a bevy of big plays.

[DieselPwr44]

I'm anti Newton.

It has nothing to do with race.

As a long time Redskins fan, I have grown tired of the "project qb".

"He's a great athlete, we just need to rebuild his mechanics or his footwork..blah blah blah"

How bout we get someone in here that just needs to learn an offense instead of calling for Dr.Rudy and Oscar of OSI to rebuild him?

We need a QB. Not a rb that thinks he's a QB.

[Skins199021]

Looks like a Tarvaris Jackson, and I am threw with bad character guys, and you are only kidding yourself if you believe he isn't.

Plus he won't be able to run in the NFL like in college, making him more one dimensional, making him a worse passer. He is a thrower now a passer, and his Offensive scheme does not translate to the pros

Luck/Mallet/Locker are all better fits for the NFL

[Bat~man]

Alright, I'm done in this thread.. I can't argue something as ignorant as race when trying to evaluate players.

Sadly, most the racism going on today is because people make cheap, ignorant debates like this and when they can't produce a valid point to win the debate, just pull the race card.

good luck

[SkinsHokieFan]

Looks like a Tarvaris Jackson, and I am threw with bad character guys, and you are only kidding yourself if you believe he isn't.

Plus he won't be able to run in the NFL like in college, making him more one dimensional, making him a worse passer. He is a thrower now a passer, and his Offensive scheme does not translate to the pros

Luck/Mallet/Locker are all better fits for the NFL

Mallet is terrible, and Locker has accuracy issues.

Out of the 4 QBs you listed, Cam is right behind Luck

Saying he is Tavaris Jackson is just silly. Cam has a much better arm and is physically dominant

[ChillSkinzFan84]

The play-action bootleg passes are obviously best run with quarterbacks who are mobile. And someone with the elite athletic gifts as Newton can make our running game so much better -- just the threat that he may keep the ball and run with it (or pass) makes defenses second guess every play that looks like a run from the onset.

Not to mention that he has an absolutely cannon of an arm, and has proven to be very accurate on deep passes this year. On such a bootleg play-action pass, for example, he'll be able to create plenty of time to wait for receivers to get open deep. Shanahan's system thrived on big plays, especially to Andre Johnson, and Newton possesses the attributes to give us the opportunity to hit on a bevy of big plays.

I agree completely he would be lethal in the playaction roll out game, someone would always be open because they have to respect his threat to run. I actually though Campbell would of been good in this system because the bootleg was one of his best plays...but thats irrelivant at this point.

[Conn]

I agree and I wasnt even sold on him at the begining of the season. But as he continued to dominate week after week i became a believer. Again im not trying to make this a racial thing but if you think race doesnt play a role in it then your just naive. Racisim exist today just like it did 40 years ago except today people arent out in the open with it. You can name a few white qb's that didnt get a chance but my point is that EVERY black qb that comes out has to deal with that question or sterotype. You see the difference? Like I said i really dont want to make this about race and want to keep it strictly on sports but i was just responding to your statement.

It doesn't matter, none of this has any place here. Take it to The Tailgate forum. This should be a place to discuss Cam as a prospect.

Here's a suggestion, for those who DO think that Cam Newton should be our QB of the future:

Why don't you make a case for why he SHOULD be, and not for why he shouldn't NOT be...if that double negative makes sense. Don't just say that we shouldn't NOT draft him because he's black, that has no place here. Tell us why we SHOULD draft him. The OP does a decent job of that, but drags race into the issue, clouding the strong points that he was making.

I hope my purposeful use of double negatives make sense here.

[Skinzfever2010]

The play-action bootleg passes are obviously best run with quarterbacks who are mobile. And someone with the elite athletic gifts as Newton can make our running game so much better -- just the threat that he may keep the ball and run with it (or pass) makes defenses second guess every play that looks like a run from the onset.

Not to mention that he has an absolutely cannon of an arm, and has proven to be very accurate on deep passes this year. On such a bootleg play-action pass, for example, he'll be able to create plenty of time to wait for receivers to get open deep. Shanahan's system thrived on big plays, especially to Andre Johnson, and Newton possesses the attributes to give us the opportunity to hit on a bevy of big plays.

Made this point two weeks ago here. Shanny alluded to possibly drafting him. TK dropped his usual subtle clue which was very insightful (CAM), If we can't get Luck I wouldn't mind drafting Mr.Newton. As long as we build the o-line and grab some new WR's and a new RB.

No more drafting QB's with no support.

After watching Vick put NYG, DAL, WSH (our d) into complete frenzy/panic mode I wouldn't mind repaying our rivals for the next 10 years plus. Vick's age will start catching up to him soon. Cam is young and ready baby.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I agree completely he would be lethal in the playaction roll out game, someone would always be open because they have to respect his threat to run. I actually though Campbell would of been good in this system because the bootleg was one of his best plays...but thats irrelivant at this point.

I am with you there. The bootleg play action with Cam could be sick

Think of the things you could do:

Play action boot leg, Cam runs it for 15 yards, easily. No LB is going to stop him with a running start. Or he just scores

Play action boot leg, he throws it over the top for a 60 yard TD. He has that kind of arm.

It would be very fun to watch his skill set in this offense

[ZRagone]

I feel like the prevalent opinion on this board is that Cam Newton is certain to bust. The majority of the thoughts I've read here conclude that he will suffer a similar fate to Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Jason Campbell, and even Akili Smith. Black quarterbacks who have underwhelmed or downright failed miserably in the NFL.

Quite simply, there are many who see Cam Newton as the "athletic black QB" and immediately compare him to other "athletic black QBs" who have not met expectations. Disregarding his phenomenal play on the field -- and yes, he has nearly completed the greatest season of any player in college history -- for reasons that are not always apt, many see his once-in-a-generation athleticism as a drawback and, ultimately, a source to his certain failure.

Rarely (as gorebd82 pointed out) is Newton compared to other white athletic QB busts like Tim Couch or Alex Smith. It seems that race is playing a major role in the determination that Cam Newton doesn't have what it takes to excel in the NFL. Personally, I'm of the opinion that if he was white and playing in exactly the same manner, he would be more likely universally praised as the elite "freakish" prospect that he should be. (Look no further than persistent Danny Woodhead media coverage).

I can't get past the ridiculous race baiting at the start of this post. You want to ask if people would be acting this way if he was white. Let me ask YOU something...would you even be bothering to make this post if Cam was treated the way he's treated but was white?

Why is he compared to who he's compared to? First, I don't seem to remember reading many people comparing him to Jason Campbell frankly. I have heard Russel comparisons in regards to Busts, but that's likely due to the fact that he's the biggest bust of recent memory and possibly of all time. I heard Clausen talked about as possibly having bust written all over him like Russel...must've been because how black Clausen is. He's compared often to Vince Young. Now it COULD be because...omg he's black. Or, it could be that Young...like Cam...was known in college for being a good runner and that skill being a large part of his game. Strangely enough, black as night Tim Tebow was often compared to Young as well...crazy huh?

Netwon is an extremely different QB than Tim Couch so why refer to him as such? The only reason would be to highlight a large bust...but when people reference a bust you usually go the biggest or the most recent, both of which currently are Russel.

As far as the Danny Woodhead love, perhaps rather than people raving about him because he's white...as you imply...and thus like his athleticism it could be that he's NOT a 6'6", 250 pound, SEC playing, Division I physical stud set to go in the first round. Its the fact the guy is almost a foot shorter than that, 50 pounds less, undrafted, no-name Division II school player that gets such attention and amazement. You want to act like Cam is some once in a lifetime person? He's an AMAZING athlete...similar to Randal Cunningham, Steve Young, Michael Vick, Vince Young, and even Tim Tebow just before him. An Amazing Athlete amongst a plethora of amazing athletes from top tier conferences and schools such as Ed Reed, Vernon Davis, Adrian Peterson, etc. This is not to discount Cam, but he's an exceptional athlete from a general talent pool that sends forth tons of exceptional athletes. Chadron State and Division-II doesn't really have the the same claim.

I think Cam could be an electrifying and winning NFL quarterback, I also think he could be a huge bust. I'd say the chance for mediocre to bust is greater, but if things hit right he's got the potential to be exceptional. I would have no issue with the Skin's taking him, though I would if we traded UP go get him as I don't like the additional cost for a gamble. But I think you do a disservice to your argument when you spend three paragraphs focusing on his race and chastising people, when its pretty apparent there's a great deal of hypocrisy seeping through your post when it makes the reader have to ask themselves whether or not you'd be stating this YOURSELF if he wasn't black.

[ChillSkinzFan84]

It doesn't matter, none of this has any place here. Take it to The Tailgate forum. This should be a place to discuss Cam as a prospect.

Here's a suggestion, for those who DO think that Cam Newton should be our QB of the future:

Why don't you make a case for why he SHOULD be, and not for why he shouldn't NOT be...if that double negative makes sense. Don't just say that we shouldn't NOT draft him because he's black, that has no place here. Tell us why we SHOULD draft him. The OP does a decent job of that, but drags race into the issue, clouding the strong points that he was making.

Why dont you read my earlier post...I was one of the first to agree with the OP. I was responding to someone who brung race up with me. Ive been saying why we SHOULD draft him for the past few weeks now.

---------- Post added December-27th-2010 at 11:26 PM ----------

I am with you there. The bootleg play action with Cam could be sick

Think of the things you could do:

Play action boot leg, Cam runs it for 15 yards, easily. No LB is going to stop him with a running start. Or he just scores

Play action boot leg, he throws it over the top for a 60 yard TD. He has that kind of arm.

It would be very fun to watch his skill set in this offense

Yea it would be great but I dont know if we will be in posistion to draft him. I hope so

[ZRagone]

Alright then, how does Cam Newton compare to JaMarcus Russell or Akili Smith? Other than being a black quarterback picked high in the draft. I'm not saying he will fall in the draft because of racism, I'm saying that there are many opinions shaped by fans that use his race as a measuring stick

Whose comparing him to Akili Smith? The most common comparisons, play style wise, that I've seen is Vince Young, Tim Tebow, and Mike Vick.

I've seen people suggesting he could be as big of a bust as Jamarcuss Russel. I also remember people comparing Jamarcuss Russel's bust to Ryan Leaf. I've also heard WHITE quarterbacks bust potential compared to Russel. Could it not be that he's compared to him because people think he may bust, and Russel is the most recent and arguably the biggest bust of all time and thus the reference point?