TeaPartyNation: Judson Phillips: No More Methodist Church

[AsburySkinsFan]

I couldn't help but laugh when I read this. As if I needed another reason to ignore the Tea Party. BTW, I've got it on pretty good authority that the Methodist Church isn't going anywhere.

http://www.teapartynation.com/forum/topics/my-dream-no-more-methodist (subscription required)

by Judson Phillips founder of the Tea Party Nation.

When I was in Washington this past Friday, I walked by the United Methodist Building, next to the Russell Office Building. The sign in front of the United Methodist Building said, “Pass the DREAM Act.”

I have a DREAM. That is, no more United Methodist Church.

I grew up in the Methodist church. I left as a teenager because the Methodist Church is little more than the first Church of Karl Marx. After all, what can you say about a church that considers Hillary Clinton to be a member in good standing?

Today, the Methodist Church is little more than the “religious” arm of socialism.

The Methodist church is pro-illegal immigration. They have been in the bag for socialist health care, going as far as sending out emails to their membership “debunking” the myths of Obamacare.

Say, where are the liberal complaints on the separation of church and state?

I guess their outrage is selective.

The Methodists joined the Socialists, Communists and Marxists for the “One Nation” March. While the Methodists have been outraged that American used force to respond to 9/11, they remained shockingly silent on the torture by Muslims.

Reading the Methodist social justice manifesto is like reading a socialist wish list. They want amnesty, they want “economic justice”, they opposed “global climate change” (earth to the Methodists, man isn’t doing it), fighting global poverty (here is another hint, most poverty is caused by a lack of freedom and lack of a free enterprise system). Not shockingly, the Methodists side with the Islamists against Israel, and of course oppose America in Iraq.

In short, if you hate America, you have a great future in the Methodist church.

At the local level, there are some good people and they even have a few decent ministers left, though not many.

I left the Methodist church over 35 years ago. I have never looked back. The Methodist church is an embarrassing joke.

I have a DREAM too. My dream is the Methodist church goes out of business.

Given the Methodist church’s demographics and the rate they are losing members, that should happen sooner, rather than later.

For the few remaining patriots in the Methodist church, know what that church supports and then you should abandon the church, much like the Methodist church as abandoned American values and patriotism.

[Madison Redskin]

Wait, Judson Phillips? The guy who thinks that it is a good idea to restrict the right to vote to property owners?

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The guy who doesn't even try to hide his Islamophobia?

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And people wonder why many TPers are bigoted extremists.

[Unforgiven]

"ANYONE WHO HATES MY WARPED WORLD VIEW OBVIOUSLY HATES AMERICA!"

He's like a movie villain that doesn't realize he's the bad guy. In his crazy little world he thinks everyone else are the bad guys trying to destroy his version of America, which doesn't actually exist in reality.

It would be really funny if not for the fact there are people that actual follow his lead on issues like these.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Wait, Judson Phillips? The guy who thinks that it is a good idea to restrict the right to vote to property owners?

Whoa!!! That's like Thomas Jefferson/James Madison kind of crazy right there.

Who in their right mind would ever want to keep 19YO high-school dropouts and dementia-addled 75YO alcoholics from the polls? America, clearly, couldn't bear that type of intellectual loss from the constituency.

[Madison Redskin]

Whoa!!! That's like Thomas Jefferson/James Madison kind of crazy right there.

Jefferson also owned and ****ed slaves. But, I guess since Jefferson did it, slavery was a good thing!

Who in their right mind would ever want to keep 19YO high-school dropouts and dementia-addled 75YO alcoholics from the polls? America, clearly, couldn't bear that type of intellectual loss from the constituency.

So what you're saying is, if you don't own a home, you're a ****ing idiot alcoholic, right?

[SnyderShrugged]

The Tea Party continues to lose its credibility by going tea-o-con atevery turn. Sad, they could have actually supported sound money and liberty but they chose war, islamophobia, and spending instead

[Thiebear]

Some of you try too hard.

[Burgold]

A mostly honest question, but don't you want your churches to be socialist? Don't you want them caring for all their congregants or all people equally, regardless of race, sex, or nationality? Don't you want your churches ministering to the poor and unwashed? Shouldn't they promote being good shepherds to the Earth and loving all? Isn't the Church supposed to be a place of sanctuary, safety and healing for all regardless of your condition? A place above secular concerns and man made inventions like borders?

I sure as heck wouldn't my Church to be capitalist and only serve the guys who can engineer the greatest profit for the Church. I kinda want my Church to be socialist and redistributing wealth so that it can minister to the poorest and weakest amongst us.

[SnyderShrugged]

A mostly honest question, but don't you want your churches to be socialist? Don't you want them caring for all their congregants or all people equally, regardless of race, sex, or nationality? Don't you want your churches ministering to the poor and unwashed? Shouldn't they promote being good shepherds to the Earth and loving all? Isn't the Church supposed to be a place of sanctuary, safety and healing for all regardless of your condition? A place above secular concerns and man made inventions like borders?

I sure as heck wouldn't my Church to be capitalist and only serve the guys who can engineer the greatest profit for the Church. I kinda want my Church to be socialist and redistributing wealth so that it can minister to the poorest and weakest amongst us.

No, not at all., The difference between socialist and charity is force. I dont want my church forcing my donations to the poor, it belittles the act and infringes on my liberty to choose when to donate and to whom. Thats the difference between the liberals and libertarians in many respects btw. It's not an act of kindness when its at the point of a gun.

[Burgold]

I don't think you have the definition of socialism correct there. A kibbutz is socialist. It's a collective where everyone works towards a mutual end and shares the product of their efforts. No force involved. It works pretty well too, but mainly because the units are very small.

But onto the topic I was asking about... I don't understand what your saying at all. Each Sunday, doesn't your Church pass the plate and collect a tithe? Is that the act of force you're against? Or is it the Church choosing to take your tithe to serve the poor without your direct permission? Is that the act of force you oppose? Are you opposed to a Church promoting fellowship and being blind to nationality, gender, and race if a person is in need?

Honestly, what you said baffles me. I must not be understanding you.

[SnyderShrugged]

I don't think you have the definition of socialism correct there. A kibbutz is socialist. It's a collective where everyone works towards a mutual end and shares the product of their efforts. No force involved. It works pretty well too, but mainly because the units are very small.

But onto the topic I was asking about... I don't understand what your saying at all. Each Sunday, doesn't your Church pass the plate and collect a tithe? Is that the act of force you're against? Or is it the Church choosing to take your tithe to serve the poor without your direct permission? Is that the act of force you oppose? Are you opposed to a Church promoting fellowship and being blind to nationality, gender, and race if a person is in need?

Honestly, what you said baffles me. I must not be understanding you.

Myt church passes a coll,ection plate and I can chose to put money in or not. Socailism doesnt allow that choice

[Thiebear]

I would agree:

Churches are Socialist and can be if they are small and organized.

I know the pastor at the Lighthouse Baptist Church spends every waking moment visiting people .. its amazing.

I know they have a couple/couples doing missionary work down south that get funded directly through them.

I might not believe in why they do, but what they do is astounding.

And i would guess they are the shiny examples of it as their goal is to help all and one...

Snyder: 20years and church and you don't give? The brain-rinsing doesnt allow for that.

[twa]

Myt church passes a coll,ection plate and I can chose to put money in or not. Socailism doesnt allow that choice

Exactly, nor does a kibbutz draft you

[Homercles82]

Tithing = socialism.

I love the intellectuals on this board.

[twa]

Tithing = socialism.

I love the intellectuals on this board.

Give Bur a break...I don't think he is a morning person;)

[Burgold]

Tithing = socialism.

I love the intellectuals on this board.

Redistribution of wealth = socialism. What happens to the tithings? Aren't they collected from the whole group and then redistributed to help the Congregation or the community as need demands?

[SnyderShrugged]

Snyder: 20years and church and you don't give? The brain-rinsing doesnt allow for that.

WTF are you talkingt about. Who said I didnt give? I give a large portion of my income to our church and the various initiatives we do every year. I just said giving is my choice and not a church mandate.

And again, you are wrong. Church's are not socialist, they act as a community and in coordinated manners often, but the end state is that the members are not forced to give to charity, it is our choice. period

[Burgold]

Well, it's your choice, but it's also Church Law, isn't it? (Or is that only a Catholic thing that each member must tithe a certain percentage of their earnings?)

Still, I think your notion of force isn't necessary to make something Socialist based on its definition and philosophical underpinnings. I think in a practical sense, I think you are correct that socialism has always been mixed with force... although the Swiss would argue strongly against that as would many of the Western Euros.

[Homercles82]

Well, it's your choice, but it's also Church Law, isn't it? (Or is that only a Catholic thing that each member must tithe a certain percentage of their earnings?)

Still, I think your notion of force isn't necessary to make something Socialist based on its definition and philosophical underpinnings. I think in a practical sense, I think you are correct that socialism has always been mixed with force... although the Swiss would argue strongly against that as would many of the Western Euros.

Tithing isn't a church law. Tithing is something you should never feel obligated to do. If money is tight, you do not need to give. If money is abundant in your household, then if you feel the need to give, then do so.

Some weeks I can afford the $20 in the pan, other weeks I can't. I can remember giving $1 to the offering plate as a teenager and the Pastor was overjoyed by me giving even such a small gift.

2 Corinthians 9:7 - Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

[twa]

The early church was much more of a example of socialism in that many pooled their possessions and talents.

But that was not required

Not sure on Catholics,but the tithe is generally considered a suggested starting point for offerings(which as pointed out are voluntary by nature)

[AsburySkinsFan]

Folks we need to back up and slow down. There is no doubt that some of what Burgold said is correct, we surely want our churches to do the things that Burgold states, at least as Methodists and I suspect others as well, and these are the things that Judson is complaining about and states as a reason that he wants to see the Methodist church disbanded.

A mostly honest question, but don't you want your churches to be socialist? Don't you want them caring for all their congregants or all people equally, regardless of race, sex, or nationality? Don't you want your churches ministering to the poor and unwashed? Shouldn't they promote being good shepherds to the Earth and loving all? Isn't the Church supposed to be a place of sanctuary, safety and healing for all regardless of your condition? A place above secular concerns and man made inventions like borders?

I sure as heck wouldn't my Church to be capitalist and only serve the guys who can engineer the greatest profit for the Church. I kinda want my Church to be socialist and redistributing wealth so that it can minister to the poorest and weakest amongst us.

What I also see going on here is two different working definitions of "socialism", 1) is the forced redistribution of wealth by a government or institution. 2) a willful gathering of a collective to care for those in the community as well as those in need outside of the community. While it is true that tithing is in most churches not forced, it cannot be denied that there is an expectation, and in fact in the Methodist church we take vows to that effect. As members of Methodist congregations we will faithfully participate in its ministries by our prayers, our presence, our gifts, and our service. So while it may be voluntary to join the church we take vows that obligate us once we are there to join together in these efforts, which is the same as those who live in a kibbutz which is a socialist community just as the church itself.

Judson's idiotic comments indicate that he would seek to fundamentally alter the ministry and service of the church as a whole, and if he wants to smear us as Methodists with comments like this he will single-handedly serve to further alienate and reduce the perceived credibility of the Tea Party movement.

---------- Post added December-21st-2010 at 08:49 AM ----------

Tithing isn't a church law. Tithing is something you should never feel obligated to do. If money is tight, you do not need to give. If money is abundant in your household, then if you feel the need to give, then do so.

Sorry Homer, but I can't help but remember the widow's mite here, she was broke and still gave.

I think it's interesting to see how views on tithing and offerings have changed, because theologically giving is not an act that you do when you can afford it, it is instead something you do in response to God's gift of those things to you and in trust that God will continue to provide. The offering is to God.

[Homercles82]

Sorry Homer, but I can't help but remember the widow's mite here, she was broke and still gave.

I think it's interesting to see how views on tithing and offerings have changed, because theologically giving is not an act that you do when you can afford it, it is instead something you do in response to God's gift of those things to you and in trust that God will continue to provide. The offering is to God.

She gave according to her heart.

2 Corinthians 9:7 - Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

[Burgold]

The early church was much more of a example of socialism in that many pooled their possessions and talents.

But that was not required

and.

Not sure on Catholics,but the tithe is generally considered a suggested starting point for offerings(which as pointed out are voluntary by nature)

Thanks for the info. My intent was not to offend, but merely to question and understand. Personally, I like the notion of a church as Socialist (using my definition and not a Soviet/Cuban/Chinese one). I think it's a selfless and noble act to share and care for the least of the flock which I would think most Churches aspire too.

[AsburySkinsFan]

She gave according to her heart.

2 Corinthians 9:7 - Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

You can keep quoting that verse all day long, but it will not change the fact that she still gave even when she was broke and did so willingly to God. You said that if things are tight then you do not need to give, as if our offerings and tithes were a luxury for those who can afford it. Sorry, but they're not, a tithe and or offering is for all and is in itself an act of worship.

[Skin'Em84]

Whoa!!! That's like Thomas Jefferson/James Madison kind of crazy right there.

Who in their right mind would ever want to keep 19YO high-school dropouts and dementia-addled 75YO alcoholics from the polls? America, clearly, couldn't bear that type of intellectual loss from the constituency.

What about 23 y/o college student? They don't own property. Or the 21 y/o political intern? They know a ton about what's going on, but probably own no property. The 82 y/o wife of an army vet that moved back in with her kids. She owns no property. Why can't they vote then?