#1 WR Options

[Dukes and Skins]

I'd look to getting a WR after round 1....the focus should be on building the O-line.

Austin Pettis

Leonard Hankerson

Greg Little

Terrance Tolliver

So you would pass up Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon, Michael Floyd and Jonathan Baldwin for those guys? Just a question and as someone who's been scouting a lot of college football this year I will say this again there are no true OL that we need that will be taken in round 1. The OT's are vey weak and it seems like Brown is going to be resigned. The OG's class is 2nd round and 3rd round heavy with guys like Rodney Hudson, Mike Pouncey, Marcus Cannon, Ben Ijalana. OC is a weak class outside of Stefan Wisniewski

[Conn]

:doh:

Who let Vinny have an account on ES?

We've tried building an O-line without the draft for years now... great work I say.

He's not saying avoid OL in the first round at all costs.

He's saying that you HAVE to get great value out of that 1st round pick. And this season, there aren't many OL that are worth drafting early-mid 1st round, where we'll be.

[Halofan21]

So you would pass up Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon, Michael Floyd and Jonathan Baldwin for those guys? Just a question and as someone who's been scouting a lot of college football this year I will say this again there are no true OL that we need that will be taken in round 1. The OT's are vey weak and it seems like Brown is going to be resigned. The OG's class is 2nd round and 3rd round heavy with guys like Rodney Hudson, Mike Pouncey, Marcus Cannon, Ben Ijalana. OC is a weak class outside of Stefan Wisniewski

Thankyou for a common sense post it seems that alot of people believe in drafting O-linemen by any means even if it would be a reach. We have to start getting more out of our draft picks or we won't be going anywhere reaching for a position is not the way to get to where we need to be.

[airs0ft3r]

My name is "Randy" not Vinny and I didn't say that you don't draft ANY O-lineman. :pfft:

I just meant that you don't have to build the line entirely through the draft.

For example, I'm not going to pass up a Randy Moss-type talent just to draft a solid guard.

I know, I just wanted to use that line

We need a good center for 10 years, we need good guards, a new RT. Wide receivers are a dime a dozen.

[PlayAction]

don't like being the age nazi here .. but it makes a big difference when talking about building for the future;

The big question is how many years you think it will take to rebuild the team into a competitive franchise. If it takes another 3 seasons then there really is no point in using any draft pick to trade for any of the veterans that you listed. All of them will be too old before they can do any good when the team finally turns the corner. Skins have a potentially high first and second round pick but then nothing until the 5-7th rounds. A quality rookie will be coming in to peak performance by the time the team turns the corner (hopefully!). I'd like for the first and second round picks to be used on the lines before WR but only if there is relative value to those positions in the draft. Skins should be looking to draft the necessary linemen over the next three years when the value presents itself.

[Dukes and Skins]

Thankyou for a common sense post it seems that alot of people believe in drafting O-linemen by any means even if it would be a reach. We have to start getting more out of our draft picks or we won't be going anywhere reaching for a position is not the way to get to where we need to be.

Thank you all I'm trying to get at and its what myself and others have constantly preached in the Draft thread is that in this draft you have to hit with that 1st pick whether it be a WR, OLB or DE, we have to get a guy who's going to come in right away and be a star for us and while yes an OL would solve a lot of issues for us it would also be a terrible reach and one that would be worse than when KC took Tyson Jackson #3 when he was rated as a mid 1st to late 1st prospect(which was one of the weirdest picks I've seen, maybe Darrius Heyward-Bey wins that who knows ).

[GaryGreenMonk]

The big question is how many years you think it will take to rebuild the team into a competitive franchise. If it takes another 3 seasons then there really is no point in using any draft pick to trade for any of the veterans that you listed.

exactly. The only reason I advocate potentially 1.. is to have a vet of the same body type train some of our draft picks. (Moss wouldn't help much trying to teach someone of Andre Johnsons body type how to play in the NFL)

Sydney Rice though is 24. So he's got 6-8 years left in him. Hes the youngest of the group by several years. So he'd be the other option besides a place holder/teacher.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I know, I just wanted to use that line

We need a good center for 10 years, we need good guards, a new RT. Wide receivers are a dime a dozen.

We sure have a lot of needs.

[CommDownMan]

So you would pass up Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon, Michael Floyd and Jonathan Baldwin for those guys? Just a question and as someone who's been scouting a lot of college football this year I will say this again there are no true OL that we need that will be taken in round 1. The OT's are vey weak and it seems like Brown is going to be resigned. The OG's class is 2nd round and 3rd round heavy with guys like Rodney Hudson, Mike Pouncey, Marcus Cannon, Ben Ijalana. OC is a weak class outside of Stefan Wisniewski

OL IMO should be a round 2 pick, since OG's and C tend to start there and OT is pretty set...assuming Brown is resigned.

I do think you'd agree that a NT, 3-4 DE or OLB would be something you'd go for over a WR (based on BPA) in round 1, probably no NT's this year, but there are some nice 3-4 options.

[Dukes and Skins]

exactly. The only reason I advocate potentially 1.. is to have a vet of the same body type train some of our draft picks. (Moss wouldn't help much trying to teach someone of Andre Johnsons body type how to play in the NFL)

Sydney Rice though is 24. So he's got 6-8 years left in him. Hes the youngest of the group by several years. So he'd be the other option besides a place holder/teacher.

Sidney Rice also just had hip surgery and some wondered if he was going to be as explosive as he was before it. Would love to have him but would need to make sure he passes off every medical test before I gave him a contract

[PlayAction]

Thankyou for a common sense post it seems that alot of people believe in drafting O-linemen by any means even if it would be a reach. We have to start getting more out of our draft picks or we won't be going anywhere reaching for a position is not the way to get to where we need to be.

I think a lot of fans are so desperate for imrovement on the OL and now Dline that they are willing to "reach" for players in the draft. What they may not understand is that reaching for a player comes with an opportunity cost - -- other higher quality players and potentially multiple quality players if able to trade the pick. Still, the most important thing is that whomever is picked eventually contributes to the team. Vinny's draft of 2 Wrs, TE, a CB, punter and Lb wouldn't have been as disasterous if any had been able to make a meaningful contribution to the team. Just think if the Skins no longer had holes in the WR core and we didn't have to try to pick another one in draft/free agency.

[wit33]

The skins should not draft a WR in the draft this year. There are too many options available via free agency. Finding young skill position players are easier to find via free agency. The O-line needs to be taken care through the draft. It's rare to find young healthy O-linemen in free agency.

Side note- Bad decisions made in the past in free agency should not be used against Allen and Shanny moving forward. Skins need to build through free agency and the draft in the coming years. WE NEED MORE TALENT NO MATTER HOW WE GET IT!

[Dukes and Skins]

OL IMO should be a round 2 pick, since OG's and C tend to start there and OT is pretty set...assuming Brown is resigned.

I do think you'd agree that a NT, 3-4 DE or OLB would be something you'd go for over a WR (based on BPA) in round 1, probably no NT's this year, but there are some nice 3-4 options.

Actually I'd disagree and agree with you if it makes any sense and hear me out on what I have to say.

First off where we draft has a big effect on saying what I think would happen and if a 3-4 DE or OLB would be a better pick than a WR. Looking at the OLB class its really between 2 guys at the top, Da'Quan Bowers and Robert Quinn, the #3 guy right now is Aldon Smith but I firmly believe he'll return to school for another year. If we are picking in the top 12 and have a shot at Quinn then yes taking an OLB is a better pick than Jones or any other receiver because Quinn's immediate impact would be probably close to that of a DeMarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman type. If we're picking though around pick 16 or 17 then no the WR is the better pick

Now to DE's its a lot trickier because every week it seems like 2 DE's will rise up to the top 10 then 2 more slide to the bottom of the 1st round. Again top 12 and we have a shot at 2 guys Allen Bailey or Adrian Clayborn then I'd agree we'd go for them because both are very good pass rushers already and have a good variety of moves and both would be big helps on the DL but if we're picking 16 and both are gone by then, then I'd go receiver.

Basically what I'm trying to get at is we need to look at the players that are available in the draft relative to where we are drafting. Yes a 3-4 DE or 3-4 OLB is a great pick but if we're reaching for one over a WR who could make a bigger impact then its a bad move we can't afford to make

[PortisBetts]

Is Blackmon legit? Or is he another 1 year wonder like someone who previosuly attended Michigan State?

[GaryGreenMonk]

We sure have a lot of needs.

lol.. you want to hear the full list of what we'll need in the next 3 years...

RT, at least 1 good gaurd, Center, WR (2 probably), RB .. that would take care of offense.

for defense.... MLB, ILB, OLB, CB (if Rogers leaves), FS, a real NT, Replacement for Carter

I would draft them in this order;

MLB, RT (give the middle linebacker time to learn from Fletch).. these would be a 1st and 2nd round pick. Take a stab at gaurd in the 3rd. Take a late round WR.

....

NT, OLB ... 1st and 2nd round picks... take stabs again at gaurd or WR.

....

FS, Center.... 1st and 2nd round picks.. take stabs at ILB, WR, RB

....

So after year 3.. we should have a top Center, RT, hopefully a guard sticks... hopefully a WR sticks. on Defense, a FS, NT, MLB, OLB.. and hopefully a CB or ILB sticks.

That'll just leave a replacement for Carter and maybe taking stabs at top picks at WR or RB the following year.

We should be a competitive playoff team after year 3.

[Dukes and Skins]

Is Blackmon legit? Or is he another 1 year wonder like someone who previosuly attended Michigan State?

Very legit and unlike Thomas he's not a JUCO guy who's only done it one year. Blackmon reminds me of an explosive Brandon Marshall. A big physical guy who makes the tough catches but also has the speed to break away and make big time plays as evidenced by his high amount of big plays for TD's

[maskedsuperstar]

http://walterfootball.com/draft2011WR.php

Titus Young

Ryan Broyles

[Dukes and Skins]

http://walterfootball.com/draft2011WR.php

Titus Young

Ryan Broyles

Both the guys you mention though masked are both the same as what we have on this team and that's just burner guys and we need the possession #1 guy like Julio Jones or Jonathan Baldwin one who can burn you deep but also makes the big plays over the middle and takes the tackles

[maskedsuperstar]

The skins should not draft a WR in the draft this year. There are too many options available via free agency. Finding young skill position players are easier to find via free agency. The O-line needs to be taken care through the draft. It's rare to find young healthy O-linemen in free agency.

Side note- Bad decisions made in the past in free agency should not be used against Allen and Shanny moving forward. Skins need to build through free agency and the draft in the coming years. WE NEED MORE TALENT NO MATTER HOW WE GET IT!

I agree with you. But Allen isn't going to break the bank for FA's. Before Allen left Tampa, the Bucs were 60 million under the cap.

[Dro89]

lol.. you want to hear the full list of what we'll need in the next 3 years...

RT, at least 1 good gaurd, Center, WR (2 probably), RB .. that would take care of offense.

for defense.... MLB, ILB, OLB, CB (if Rogers leaves), FS, a real NT, Replacement for Carter

I would draft them in this order;

MLB, RT (give the middle linebacker time to learn from Fletch).. these would be a 1st and 2nd round pick. Take a stab at gaurd in the 3rd. Take a late round WR.

....

NT, OLB ... 1st and 2nd round picks... take stabs again at gaurd or WR.

....

FS, Center.... 1st and 2nd round picks.. take stabs at ILB, WR, RB

....

So after year 3.. we should have a top Center, RT, hopefully a guard sticks... hopefully a WR sticks. on Defense, a FS, NT, MLB, OLB.. and hopefully a CB or ILB sticks.

That'll just leave a replacement for Carter and maybe taking stabs at top picks at WR or RB the following year.

We should be a competitive playoff team after year 3.

CB-WR (At least 1) NT , G, DE, ILB can all be fixed via this draft plus FA this year...

RB-FS-QB-RT can all be taken care of in the next draft...

all of this can be fixed in 3 years IMO with room for mcnabb to play an effective 2 more years and have our QB of the future behind him (some think blaine gabbert)

[maskedsuperstar]

Both the guys you mention though masked are both the same as what we have on this team and that's just burner guys and we need the possession #1 guy like Julio Jones or Jonathan Baldwin one who can burn you deep but also makes the big plays over the middle and takes the tackles

I feel you.

[wit33]

I agree with you. But Allen isn't going to break the bank for FA's. Before Allen left Tampa, the Bucs were 60 million under the cap.

I thought Allen not spending had more to do with ownership. The Bucs at that time I believe were trying to cut salary after going all out for a few years.

*Not totally sure, but I thought that was the reason.

[PortisBetts]

Very legit and unlike Thomas he's not a JUCO guy who's only done it one year. Blackmon reminds me of an explosive Brandon Marshall. A big physical guy who makes the tough catches but also has the speed to break away and make big time plays as evidenced by his high amount of big plays for TD's

I am going to have to get some tape on this guy. Been hearing his name a lot but havent really gotten a chance to see him. We need to get a reciever in the first round. It was painfully obvious yesterday. We have no one who can catch consistently.

[ST21]

Yep.

RT, RG, C (2 of 3) with first 2 picks. Plus I think Shanallen will probably try to trade down if possible.

Also seems like the consensus around here is we'll be going after VJax.... James Jones would be nice too.

I think this depends. If we can get mankins via FA, then I say go WR in the first and center in the second. Plus pick up a WR in FA. I think the late round picks will be used for defense (LB and DL)

[Dukes and Skins]

I am going to have to get some tape on this guy. Been hearing his name a lot but havent really gotten a chance to see him. We need to get a reciever in the first round. It was painfully obvious yesterday. We have no one who can catch consistently.

Be careful if you get film of him the last 3 or 4 games as he's been hobbled by an ankle injury but still has played and put up monster games so you may see a different speed out of him than he normally is