McNabb doesn't play defense...

[Frostx08]

In order to trail 35-0 the offense needs to have the ball at least 4 times. And if I'm not mistaken, the Redskins first four possesions went 3-&-out, 3-&-out, interception (on the thrid play!), 3-&-out. Just like McNabb doesn't play defense, the defense had nothing to do with the offense's complete inability to move the football 10 freakin' yards on 4 separate occasions. The numbers do not lie. Donovan McNabb = Alex Smith.

Numbers do lie when you fail to add objective thinking to it. Looking at Carson Palmer's numbers you'd think he was playing better than he is

Again...when have you EVER seen a team get dominated like that regardless of what happens on the offensive side of the ball? No team gives up points and yards like that, NONE. Your failure to acknowledge that and instead make McNabb the scapegoat says more about how deep your hatred for McNabb is. You can hardly call yourself "fair" at this point

And like I have pointed out...the 1st drive were ALL run plays, the 2nd drive McNabb passed only ONCE. The 3rd drive McNabb's pass went off Moss's hands. But it shouldn't matter....no defense collapses like that and that's just a fact

And yes...Mike Vick is playing better than Peyton Manning and if he keeps this up for years can be mentioned with Steve Young and the other greats

[HailSkins83]

This thread would be more relevant if you actually watched the game... McNabb did not play bad! Dropped bals on 3rd downs by Colley, Moss, and Galloway..

1 or 2 of his interseptions was either a tip ball of a crappy effort by galloway... The rest of the game he ws being hurried or sacked...

[stwasm]

I was at school when I pulled up the Gamecast and saw us down 35-0 in the first quarter. It wasn't until I got to my dad's house after halftime that I saw what Vick was doing to us and how Philly was basicly destroying our team on national television. If we weren't trying, I'd be pissed, but that wasn't the case tonight. Not at all...

Our offensive line cannot be "coached up"; we need 4 new starters, same as last year. Our WR position is an absolute joke. If we want to be competitive, Santana needs to be no higher then 3 on the depth chart, Armstrong, Iove him, but he needs to be #4; especially after looking at the philly WR core and the rest of the talent they have on offense. I could go all day about not getting any pressure on a Michael Vick playin like Michael Jordan out there, but it really all boils down to this:

TALENT. We don't have it.

And all the coaching in the world and front office shuffling can only do so much for a team that was 4-12 last year. Talking heads are even saying it, this was more Vick being great then us being terrible. But we obviously don't have what we need to keep up with a division rival like Philly right now.

And for anyone that believes that we'll win anything during this rebuilding period without a QB, you are wrong. Having McNabb here gives us a chance to focus on the other glaring holes on this roster without having to get desperate for our future at the most important position in football. For the next 5 years, we at least have something to build around, someone to give weapons to.

And for the record, I don't expect us to let anyone put 59 on us again anytime soon, we don't play Vick until next year. So if you feel like giving up on the redskins, do it now, instead of letting yourself get sucked into the hype and wanting to throw a temper-tantrum because you haven't been really paying attention to the state of the franchise for the last two years.

I've been saying the exact same thing for the last couple of years and kept getting rebuked for it. But, here we are. This is what happens when you give away all of your draft picks to "win now" instead of grooming your own talent like the Phillies, New Englands and Pittsburghs of the football world. And it's going to take at least two-to-three solid offseasons of SPOT-ON drafting in ALL rounds and using free agency wisely and as a supplement to get this team back to being at least respectable.

[Tuff]

McNabb had 2 TD's, 3 INT's, and his season has not been good at all. He doesn't deserve THAT much cash IMO. Total bust

[KDawg]

How is anyone defending anything on this team right now? Last night was ridiculous all the way around. There is no defending anyone. Is that the team we really are? Probably not completely, but it's not far off. McNabb is certainly not the biggest issue last night, but he didn't play well, either.

[Geoff_K]

how do you rebuild without draft picks ? not by signing 38 yr old wide receivers and 34 yr old qbs and signing arena football players

Indeed, we keep getting old men instead of young players. Both are too old to add to a team that needs so much rebuilding to get competitive. I'd rather start 22 rookies and lose than what we have now and lose. You hope to keep 5-7 of the rookies and draft another batch of them and hope for another 5-7. After 5 years you hope to have 25 solid layers and the initial ones are not over the hill yet. Then you replace them as they falter with rookies. Let's get on a youth movement.

[luke1867]

They play better in their scheme (infact, they have no scheme really, just playing with reckless abandon but it works). However, They don't have the better players on D. Redskins have way more skilled players on Defense than the Raiders. These are the same players from last year. So what happened? scheme change happened. The Raiders D was absolutely horrible in the first 4 games of the season. Things changed when Cable told them to "cut it loose' LOL.

[DJD2]

Indeed, we keep getting old men instead of young players. Both are too old to add to a team that needs so much rebuilding to get competitive. I'd rather start 22 rookies and lose than what we have now and lose. You hope to keep 5-7 of the rookies and draft another batch of them and hope for another 5-7. After 5 years you hope to have 25 solid layers and the initial ones are not over the hill yet. Then you replace them as they falter with rookies. Let's get on a youth movement.

*cough* McNabb *cough*

[KDawg]

They play better in their scheme (infact, they have no scheme really, just playing with reckless abandon but it works). However, They don't have the better players on D. Redskins have way more skilled players on Defense than the Raiders. These are the same players from last year. So what happened? scheme change happened. They were absolutely horrible in the first 4 games of the season.

How so? The way I figure it we have three very good players that are actually on the field... LaRon Landry, Brian Orakpo, London Fletcher... We have two decent corners, Hall and Rogers... One is decent in coverage and a great playmaker, the other is good in coverage and a horrible playmaker. We have virtually zero on the defensive line.

That's less than half of the defense that's very good or decent/good.

[oldskoolskins]

Fans want to hack on Mcnabb and the rest of the team, lets give some credit to Vick he was awesome.

[luke1867]

when mcnabb gets time, he makes plays downfield consistently. campbell could not do that even with all the time in the world. this is why i want mcnabb as this teams QB.

mcnabb leads the entire NFL in big pass plays, and we have a very poor oline at the moment. that should tell all of you something about what mcnabb could be if our oline wasnt very poor right now.

tonight was just horrid tho, all the way through.

Campbell just played differently. He had a different technique to McNaab. McNaab will throw one big pass after a string of horrible ones. Sometimes successful, other times not but that also leaves too much time on the clock. You notice that even with the Eagles up 35-14, there was still a lot of time for a good team to come back into the game. Campbell preferred methodically driving down the field with long drives, extending plays and eating the clock. He was extremely patient maybe to his own fault. However, A Campbell team will not take 59 pts. I'm almost sure of it because of how long his drives tended to be. This game was lost on Kyle Shanahan. I don't blame the defense. There is almost nothing you can do when you have a double threat -- Desean Jackson deep, Vick who can pass and run. They got tired. Kyle had to find a way to sustain long drives to slow down the game and he didn't! Campbell is producing big play after big play in Oakland right now, and he is doing when it matters the most.

[Homercles82]

For those saying McNabb is too old and we need to find young talent where should we find it? I have not seen a clear, viable solution to this problem from anyone on here.

[DJD2]

For those saying McNabb is too old and we need to find young talent where should we find it? I have not seen a clear, viable solution to this problem from anyone on here.

Draft

I know, this is an alien concept for our organzation.

[KDawg]

For those saying McNabb is too old and we need to find young talent where should we find it? I have not seen a clear, viable solution to this problem from anyone on here.

Here's the problem... We spent high draft picks, that could be used for rebuilding, on McNabb. Is McNabb an upgrade? Sure, at least in the leadership department. However there is NOTHING in place around him. It doesn't matter who our QB is. We could get 9 touchdowns and 11 interceptions out of Grossman. We could have traded for Tyler Thigpen for a seventh rounder. There were plenty of viable solutions, even if we were intent on trading a pick. The point is, we have a ton of holes, and we have limited picks. Our second rounder last year could have netted us Colt McCoy...

[surferskin]

I bet 0-10 on 3rd down wasn't his fault either. Or 4 for our last 37 on 3rd down. No, it's not his fault that we're the the WORST team on 3rd down in the league. Cuz, you know...3 and outs really help our defense.

[KDawg]

We're now 21.6% on 3rd downs.

[luke1867]

yes but its easy to always blame that guy when he didnt really do nothing wrong.it was 35-0 by the end of the 1st.And kyle calls the plays.why are we rushing the ball still.And guess what when we air it out its 35-14 then we dump off again and that gets us in trouble every time.

Finally a real keen eye saw the game right. Kyle was horrible in his play calling. Downright horrible! He has hindered this offense more than anyone. Hue would have been a good fit as O-coordinator but that's past now.

[KDawg]

For the record, I just went through the stats on NFL.com... They've got 3rd down % statistics back til 1990. The closest thing to a 21.6% rate is a 25%. Seriously. We may have one of the worst third down rates in HISTORY.

[luke1867]

I started this thread because I felt Vick pretty much beat us by himself and there was nothing McNabb could do about it. Where you're taking this like a DMac apology thread is not what I'm about or this thread is about. I personally feel Oakland is a better overall team then the redskins, both talent-wise, utilization of talent, and overall product on the field. DMac is having one of his worst seasons in his career, no denying that. But this was one of his best games as a redskin, sadly the talent around him could not help us stay in this football game.

This isn't about stats or placing the blame on anyone; this is about that I feel we have a QB that can win us games, but he needs help. Throwing him in the trash and starting over again is just going to set us back even further considering the numerous holes on this team, particularly the o-line. I love JC, but DMac is throwing for more yards per game, has a better completion % right now, better yards per pass, 2nd in the league in 40+ yard pass plays, and believe it or not running the 14th ranked pass offense in the league. That's not pro-bowl, and we aren't winning like I wish we were, but that's not incompetent and certainly more productive then Jason Campbell.

Same with JC and most QBs, DMac can't do **** on his back. And I'm not going to throw him under the bus when he's the best QB we've had in almost a decade, we were 4-12 last year, and still haven't really added anymore talent to the roster. And I'm not going to blame DMac and the offense's failure to convert 3rd downs for being down 35-0 a couple minutes into the 2nd quarter (is it too hard to ask for a 0-0 first quarter?). That just doesn't make sense to me.

We have a lot of work to do, but QB for the first time in a while is not or main weakness. That's just my opinion, and I feel I'm not alone in that regard, either...

Let me just stop you right here. First, IMO, McNaab cannot be blamed in anyway for what seemed to be one of the most embarassing team performance in Redskins history. That was Kyle Shanahan. But, Jason Campbell if McNaab's numbers appear slightly better right now, it is because Campbell's on a bye and also did not play 2.5 games earlier in the season. Just last week, he had McNaab beat in most passing categories except yards. He had him beat in TDs, completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, and most of all, QB rating! which he still does. Campbell has played better than McNaab this season. There's no debating that.

[Homercles82]

Draft

I know, this is an alien concept for our organzation.

Here's the problem... We spent high draft picks, that could be used for rebuilding, on McNabb. Is McNabb an upgrade? Sure, at least in the leadership department. However there is NOTHING in place around him. It doesn't matter who our QB is. We could get 9 touchdowns and 11 interceptions out of Grossman. We could have traded for Tyler Thigpen for a seventh rounder. There were plenty of viable solutions, even if we were intent on trading a pick. The point is, we have a ton of holes, and we have limited picks. Our second rounder last year could have netted us Colt McCoy...

So we should of drafted Colt McCoy who has had one good game so far? I suppose we should have not drafted Trent Williams and went with a QB? Perhaps trading down to take Tebow.

Do you put Colt McCoy behind our Oline and expect him to perform? That reminds me too much of how we did Ramsey, who I think was a better prospect coming out of college than McCoy.

Personally I will hold judgement against this FO for drafts until after next years draft. We need to focus on linemen, RB and WR.

[KDawg]

So we should of drafted Colt McCoy who has had one good game so far? I suppose we should have not drafted Trent Williams and went with a QB? Perhaps trading down to take Tebow.

Do you put Colt McCoy behind our Oline and expect him to perform? That reminds me too much of how we did Ramsey, who I think was a better prospect coming out of college than McCoy.

Personally I will hold judgement against this FO for drafts until after next years draft. We need to focus on linemen, RB and WR.

I don't believe I said anything about who we draft with the second rounder, or the two picks we'll be missing this year. It could have been used on a Colt McCoy, sure. It could have been used to package picks and move up to try and get Bradford as well, although that probably wouldn't have happened anyways. It also could have been used on a guard or center in the second round, after taking Trent Williams. Or maybe we don't take Trent and we trade down and get two good offensive linemen. Who knows. There's a wide array of stuff we could have done with that pick... And the picks this year we gave up. I would have rather traded our third or fourth rounder this year for Tyler Thigpen than an older Donovan McNabb who has NOTHING around him. That's our issue. We try to fix one problem and alienate the other 21 problems. We probably could have gotten Thigpen for a 6th or 7th rounder

[frankez99]

We are trotting out arguably the worse trio of WR's in the league (and no that isn't a stretch) and a starting TE who's seemingly dropping 2-3 passes a game. Not to mention our pseudo-number one WR loves to drop passes as well.

Just in the NFC East the skill level difference is disgusting:

Nicks, Smith, Manningham....

Jackson, Maclin, Avant....

Austin, Bryant, Williams...

Moss, Galloway, Armstrong?

You would have figured the team would provided McNabb SOMETHING to throw to.

And oh yeah, Oakland>DC right now.....it isn't even close.

[DJD2]

So we should of drafted Colt McCoy who has had one good game so far? I suppose we should have not drafted Trent Williams and went with a QB? Perhaps trading down to take Tebow.

Do you put Colt McCoy behind our Oline and expect him to perform? That reminds me too much of how we did Ramsey, who I think was a better prospect coming out of college than McCoy.

Personally I will hold judgement against this FO for drafts until after next years draft. We need to focus on linemen, RB and WR.

Who said anything about not drafting Trent Williams? I thought that was one of our best draft decisions in a long time.

The questions was where we find a young QB.

Answer: Draft

[surferskin]

We are trotting out arguably the worse trio of WR's in the league (and no that isn't a stretch) and a starting TE who's seemingly dropping 2-3 passes a game. Not to mention our pseudo-number one WR loves to drop passes as well.

Just in the NFC East the skill level difference is disgusting:

Nicks, Smith, Manningham....

Jackson, Maclin, Avant....

Austin, Bryant, Williams...

Moss, Galloway, Armstrong?

You would have figured the team would provided McNabb SOMETHING to throw to.

And oh yeah, Oakland>DC right now.....it isn't even close.

Yeah, if only we had better receivers for McNabb to overthrow! Mebbe then we could have been 1 for 10 on 3rd down...maybe with a lucky break...2 for 10!!!

[Renegade7]

Let me just stop you right here. First, IMO, McNaab cannot be blamed in anyway for what seemed to be one of the most embarassing team performance in Redskins history. That was Kyle Shanahan. But, Jason Campbell if McNaab's numbers appear slightly better right now, it is because Campbell's on a bye and also did not play 2.5 games earlier in the season. Just last week, he had McNaab beat in most passing categories except yards. He had him beat in TDs, completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, and most of all, QB rating! which he still does. Campbell has played better than McNaab this season. There's no debating that.

All up in the kool-aid, and don't know the flavor, bro. Debate I was having with homie was him saying Dmac was down right pathetic, which is not the case. The only stat that's not a game by game average is 40 yd bombs, which is no fluke, and intentionally put to null the "jc only played so many games arguement". We're talkin right now, and right now McNabb isn't having his best season, but he isn't as terrible as many are mikin him out to b tryin to single issues out.

I'm not mad @ kyle either because he has parctically nothin to work with right. Hell, he didn't even have portis or torrain and we still scored 28 points. This is like the jc in dc arguement all over again. Some say he needs more talent, some say he's a lost cause. Balance alway seems to tip from week to week tho, but lack of talent remains the same. Gets old, man, really does...