DeSeanA Jackson...

[Hiro]

Donovan made something very clear to the defense before the Eagles game:

Jackson and Maclin do NOT like contact. At all. If you rough them up at the yard of scrimmage, they WILL fold. Santana, for as small as he is, is very tough and CAN handle contact.

Moss may not be the deep threat that Jackson is, but there's not doubt who is a tougher player and who is a more consistent possession receiver. Jackson is dangerous, very dangerous. But, it could be argued that he's a one trick pony. Once he loses that speed, he's done.

[Bubble Screen]

You guys are a bunch of homers. Like I've already said, there isn't ONE GM that would take Moss over Jackson. Not one! Yet you guys are on here trying to convince someone that Moss is the better player. What a joke.

And its pretty ridiculous to keep bringing up Jackson isn't tough. The guy is one of the smallest WR's in football! You guys are acting like he's a wimp because he doesn't try to lay someone out, or go over the middle. His strength is his SPEED. Running routes over the middle isn't using his best asset. Sure you can't just run him on fly patterns the whole game. But he's a homerun hitter. He's wise to avoid alot of contact with guys much bigger. He isn't doing his team any good if he's out with a concussion.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

You guys are a bunch of homers. Like I've already said, there isn't ONE GM that would take Moss over Jackson. Not one! Yet you guys are on here trying to convince someone that Moss is the better player. What a joke.

And its pretty ridiculous to keep bringing up Jackson isn't tough. The guy is one of the smallest WR's in football! You guys are acting like he's a wimp because he doesn't try to lay someone out, or go over the middle. His strength is his SPEED. Running routes over the middle isn't using his best asset. Sure you can't just run him on fly patterns the whole game. But he's a homerun hitter. He's wise to avoid alot of contact with guys much bigger. He isn't doing his team any good if he's out with a concussion.

Ah, the ol' "Imaginary GM Poll" retort lol...

[GritzRgreat]

The only thing Jackson has on Moss is age. Is Jackson faster, yes but Moss is still one of the fastest guys around.

We'll just see what the stats look like at the end of the season.

[RichmondRedskin88]

You don't have to tell me Moss is tough. Remember when he got in that fight in Giants stadium the 1st game last season?

[Bubble Screen]

You don't have to tell me Moss is tough. Remember when he got in that fight in Giants stadium the 1st game last season?

The one where he slapped another player in the face with his HELMET ON? lol...Yeah, what a TOUGH GUY! He's a clown. I can't wait until he and Portis are both gone. Get some REAL players in here.

Not chumps that make a stupid first down signal after a 5 yard catch, with his team usually trailing. Or how about the stunt he pulled in Cincy? What a team player!

[Big Blue Joe]

Not chumps that make a stupid first down signal after a 5 yard catch, with his team usually trailing.

I usually don't mind player celebrations(obviously), but seeing Moss spin the ball and signal a first down after a routine catch always pisses me off.

[Bubble Screen]

^^ I didn't watch much of that debacle on Sunday night. But I saw the guy in your sig when he did that celebration. That was f-ing hilarious! lol

[GritzRgreat]

Banks = Jackson so no, i don't want Jackson unless its the Jackson from out west(SD)...

[SonnyJ]

You guys are a bunch of homers. Like I've already said, there isn't ONE GM that would take Moss over Jackson. Not one! Yet you guys are on here trying to convince someone that Moss is the better player. What a joke.

Could you show us anything that makes this something other than your own opinion? I think you'd be shocked at the aversion many personnel types and coaches would have to having a ***** lined up out there for him.

Let me guess - you're one of these guys who think that value in Madden and fantasy football is the same as value in real football, right?

And its pretty ridiculous to keep bringing up Jackson isn't tough. The guy is one of the smallest WR's in football! You guys are acting like he's a wimp because he doesn't try to lay someone out, or go over the middle. His strength is his SPEED. Running routes over the middle isn't using his best asset. Sure you can't just run him on fly patterns the whole game. But he's a homerun hitter. He's wise to avoid alot of contact with guys much bigger. He isn't doing his team any good if he's out with a concussion.

You know what Moss' strength is? Wait for it...

IT'S HIS SPEED!!!!! Yet, he also will run every route and doesn't shy away from contact. He isn't limited in what he'll do. When his team is down and needs a score late in the game, he won't pull up on a catchable ball for fear of getting hit - he'll actually try to make the catch.

You know what he'll also do - block like a MFer. Go back and watch the first quarter from the Eagles game again. On the Eagles second possession, McCoy gets the ball going left on second down. Jackson's assignment on the play is to screen/shield/chip the LB (McIntosh). Jackson avoids laying even a finger on McIntosh, who is following the play and not even looking for a blocker - he could have been chipped easily. McIntosh winds up tackling McCoy for about a seven-yard gain - if he hadn't, McCoy gets the first down easily, and possibly much more. The Eagles fail to convert on third down and have to punt the ball away, already down 7-0 and soon to be down 14-0. One tiny chip on a player not looking for it would have extended a drive that could have swung momentum towards the Eagles (or, at least, stopped the Redskins' momentum). Quite possibly, it's a different ballgame and Vick doesn't get hurt - all because Jackson is a punk ass ***** that is scared to death of mixing it up at all.

Contrast this with Moss who, on the drive after Jackson did his non-block, cleared the way for Portis on about a 15-yard gain. He didn't just kinda sorta get in the CB's way out there - he locked onto the guy and drove him backwards like he was on roller skates and completely eliminated him from the play. The S had to come over and make the play because the CB was too busy getting abused. I can't remember the last time I saw a WR drive a CB backwards for 15 yards (and Moss could have driven him all the way down the field if the whistle hadn't blown).

Unless Jackson has the ball in space, he is completely useless out there. A liability. It's like what Buddy Ryan said about Cris Carter - "All he does is catch touchdowns". On the surface, it sounds like an odd thing to complain about, but it's a spot-on criticism for a guy like Jackson - unless he's producing a big play, he has absolutely no value to the team. Just a low effort guy that probably sulks if he isn't getting his touches and probably doesn't command much respect in the locker room. Can't win with him.

The one where he slapped another player in the face with his HELMET ON? lol...Yeah, what a TOUGH GUY! He's a clown. I can't wait until he and Portis are both gone. Get some REAL players in here.

Not chumps that make a stupid first down signal after a 5 yard catch, with his team usually trailing. Or how about the stunt he pulled in Cincy? What a team player!

And, yet, here you are pimping up a guy like Jackson who, because he's such a showboat, actually missed out on a TD (and should have cost his team a TD) because he celebrated too soon and dropped the ball before he actually reached the end zone. I think in college he did one of those swan dives into the end zone and landed at the one yard line. Talk about your chumps - what a bonehead. I can't believe you would want this guy on your team.

The phrase "familiarity breeds contempt" seems to describe your viewpoint to the letter. You're slurping all over a punk ass ***** from some other team, yet ripping players from (supposedly) your own team who have proven themselves to a far greater degree than Jackson.

You seem to know what's inside the mind of every GM in the NFL. In what regard do you think other NFL players view Jackson? Do you think that, other than for his big-play potential (which not a single person in this thread has denied), there is an ounce of respect for the guy?

[Rexx1240]

what do you think would happen if Shanahan & Allen were offered Djackson for Moss straight up?

Not really a fair question but to make it fair i'll say this:

If Santana were 24 yrs old & DeSean was just activating his "30 & over club card"......evry FO in the league would be more inclined to stick with Santana just for that reason alone. At this point in their respective careers, its just not a far assessment to make.

[Puff Dragon]

Give Haslett a lot of credit. The Eagles have been living with the big play the last couple of games and he took that away. Jackson was a non factor. Does anyone know if we were playing him straight up man or using a lot of zone? I did see Buchanon on Maclin a lot, not sure if we had Hall or Rogers on Jackson.

Haslett and the Redskins did nothing to make Jackson a non factor.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/09000d5d81b19019/Playbook-Kevin-Kolb-s-missed-opportunities

Kevin Kolb made Jackson a non factor. Watch that video, he kept running wide open but Kolb kept deciding to instead to check down.

[Bubble Screen]

Banks = Jackson so no, i don't want Jackson unless its the Jackson from out west(SD)...

Banks is equal to Desean Jackson? Based off WHAT?! lol

Could you show us anything that makes this something other than your own opinion? I think you'd be shocked at the aversion many personnel types and coaches would have to having a ***** lined up out there for him.

Let me guess - you're one of these guys who think that value in Madden and fantasy football is the same as value in real football, right?

You know what Moss' strength is? Wait for it...

IT'S HIS SPEED!!!!! Yet, he also will run every route and doesn't shy away from contact. He isn't limited in what he'll do. When his team is down and needs a score late in the game, he won't pull up on a catchable ball for fear of getting hit - he'll actually try to make the catch.

You know what he'll also do - block like a MFer. Go back and watch the first quarter from the Eagles game again. On the Eagles second possession, McCoy gets the ball going left on second down. Jackson's assignment on the play is to screen/shield/chip the LB (McIntosh). Jackson avoids laying even a finger on McIntosh, who is following the play and not even looking for a blocker - he could have been chipped easily. McIntosh winds up tackling McCoy for about a seven-yard gain - if he hadn't, McCoy gets the first down easily, and possibly much more. The Eagles fail to convert on third down and have to punt the ball away, already down 7-0 and soon to be down 14-0. One tiny chip on a player not looking for it would have extended a drive that could have swung momentum towards the Eagles (or, at least, stopped the Redskins' momentum). Quite possibly, it's a different ballgame and Vick doesn't get hurt - all because Jackson is a punk ass ***** that is scared to death of mixing it up at all.

Contrast this with Moss who, on the drive after Jackson did his non-block, cleared the way for Portis on about a 15-yard gain. He didn't just kinda sorta get in the CB's way out there - he locked onto the guy and drove him backwards like he was on roller skates and completely eliminated him from the play. The S had to come over and make the play because the CB was too busy getting abused. I can't remember the last time I saw a WR drive a CB backwards for 15 yards (and Moss could have driven him all the way down the field if the whistle hadn't blown).

Unless Jackson has the ball in space, he is completely useless out there. A liability. It's like what Buddy Ryan said about Cris Carter - "All he does is catch touchdowns". On the surface, it sounds like an odd thing to complain about, but it's a spot-on criticism for a guy like Jackson - unless he's producing a big play, he has absolutely no value to the team. Just a low effort guy that probably sulks if he isn't getting his touches and probably doesn't command much respect in the locker room. Can't win with him.

And, yet, here you are pimping up a guy like Jackson who, because he's such a showboat, actually missed out on a TD (and should have cost his team a TD) because he celebrated too soon and dropped the ball before he actually reached the end zone. I think in college he did one of those swan dives into the end zone and landed at the one yard line. Talk about your chumps - what a bonehead. I can't believe you would want this guy on your team.

The phrase "familiarity breeds contempt" seems to describe your viewpoint to the letter. You're slurping all over a punk ass ***** from some other team, yet ripping players from (supposedly) your own team who have proven themselves to a far greater degree than Jackson.

You seem to know what's inside the mind of every GM in the NFL. In what regard do you think other NFL players view Jackson? Do you think that, other than for his big-play potential (which not a single person in this thread has denied), there is an ounce of respect for the guy?

If you don't think every GM out there would take Jackson over Moss then I don't know what to tell you, bro. You obviously don't know football that well. Jackson is alot younger, for starters. And he's a playmaker. Moss 'used' to be a playmaker. And you keep bringing up that Moss is tougher. So what! Still doesn't make him a better player. You're not taking Jackson's size into the equation. He's already proven to be somewhat fragile. Why would he constantly take on guys that are considerably bigger and stronger? Like I said earlier, he isn't helping his club by standing on the sidelines with a concussion. Furthermore, there are alot better receivers in the NFL that don't block very well. One of the best ones, who is a lock for the hall of fame, doesn't want any part of blocking. And he's also admitted to taking plays off. I'm sure you can figure out who I'm talking about.

You're a homer. And anyone out there that would take Moss over Jackson is, also.

And, quite frankly, this is a ridiculous discussion. And one that I'm done discussing.

Btw, the Jackson play against Dallas was his rookie season. Yep, that was a dumb play. But he gets somewhat of a pass. Moss still does assinine things and he's been around alot longer. I'm sure you overlooked the thing Moss did in Cincy the year before, huh. Refs fault, right?

[SonnyJ]

If you don't think every GM out there would take Jackson over Moss then I don't know what to tell you, bro.

That's obvious because you've told me nothing so far other than make this totally unsubstantiated claim and other vague generalizations. You haven't made any statements of fact.

You obviously don't know football that well.

Perhaps I don't, but, based on your performance in this thread, I seriously wonder if you've ever even watched a football game before.

Jackson is alot younger, for starters. And he's a playmaker. Moss 'used' to be a playmaker. And you keep bringing up that Moss is tougher. So what! Still doesn't make him a better player. You're not taking Jackson's size into the equation. He's already proven to be somewhat fragile. Why would he constantly take on guys that are considerably bigger and stronger? Like I said earlier, he isn't helping his club by standing on the sidelines with a concussion. Furthermore, there are alot better receivers in the NFL that don't block very well. One of the best ones, who is a lock for the hall of fame, doesn't want any part of blocking. And he's also admitted to taking plays off. I'm sure you can figure out who I'm talking about.

Moss is still a playmaker. Tell you what - make a poll in the Stadium and I imagine you will find a significant % that will say that he is. Just because you say he's not, when it's clear that you can't stand the guy, doesn't make it so.

And you still haven't explained why it's so upsetting to you that several people seem to think that a complete punk ass ***** like Jackson is an insult to the game of football. You seriously don't think that his girly way of playing football goes unnoticed by his teammates?

You're a homer. And anyone out there that would take Moss over Jackson is, also.

Why? Express yourself. Several different people have made it very clear why they dislike Jackson and would prefer a player like Moss. Not one has said that they would do so because Moss is a Redskin and Jackson is an Eagle. What don't you understand? Why do you keep making this assertion when it has no basis in fact?

And, quite frankly, this is a ridiculous discussion. And one that I'm done discussing.

Good. Because, quite frankly, you've done a poor job of discussing it thus far. You've only made some unsubstantiated claims that you seem to feel are self-evident and that we should take at face value.

Btw, the Jackson play against Dallas was his rookie season. Yep, that was a dumb play. But he gets somewhat of a pass. Moss still does assinine things and he's been around alot longer. I'm sure you overlooked the thing Moss did in Cincy the year before, huh. Refs fault, right?

Why does he get a pass? Shouldn't every player realize by the time.he makes it to the NFL that you have to cross the goal line with the ball in your possession before it's a TD? Honestly, I've coached very young kids and I never felt that I had to teach them this - never even considered mentioning it when going over basics of the game. But, since Jackson was a rookie when it happened, it's no biggie, right?

And why on earth do you feel the need to tear down Moss to justify your infatuation with Jackson?

[Conn]

And why on earth do you feel the need to tear down Moss to justify your infatuation with Jackson?

Seriously. Why can't he admit that Moss is a good player as well, but give his reasons why he'd PERSONALLY prefer Jackson.

Bubble, don't try to hoist your opinion on others as fact, just because its fact to YOU. When you act as if its ridiculous that someone doesn't agree with you, that's what you're doing. Realize that for every reason you believe something, someone else has just as good a reason to believe the opposite.

[GritzRgreat]

Check this weeks stats.

Moss kills him.

[rmc97]

SonnyJ is hitting this one right on the head. Yes you have to respect Jackson's speed and his ability to stretch the field and produce a big play. But if he's not doing that, then the Eagle's offense might as well be playing with ten men. Being able to step up and not be afraid of contact is part of this game. Santana Moss stands up to the contact repeatedly, he'll put a block on somebody on the run plays, he'll sacrifice his body to make a tough catch, all the while still having the SPEED to stretch the field if we need it. He is and always has been a SOLID contributor to this team even when he was practically the only receiving option. He STILL found ways to produce and it was by a combination of his speed AND his ability to get in there and get physical with other teams DBs.

And talking about Jackson being "fragile" and asking how useful he is with a concussion..... how much good is he doing his team when he whifs on a block that could spring his running back for a first down? How useful is he when he gives up on a guaranteed catch because he doesn't want to take a hit? How does he help the team by not giving his all to the team against a Division rival? I'm sorry, call me a homer but I'll take Santana Moss, and his "never quit" fighting spirit, over that **** Jackson any day.

HTTR

RMC

[pjfootballer]

Jackson wouldn't have lasted 1 game with Joe Gibbs or Shanahan. As a WR, if you don't block, you don't play.

[pjfootballer]

Haslett and the Redskins did nothing to make Jackson a non factor.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-playbook/09000d5d81b19019/Playbook-Kevin-Kolb-s-missed-opportunities

Kevin Kolb made Jackson a non factor. Watch that video, he kept running wide open but Kolb kept deciding to instead to check down.

Bullcrap. Even though Jackson was running in the zones, didn't mean they didn't have underneath or over the top coverage. Just because a guys isn't hanging on a WRs back, doesn't mean they don't have coverage.

[pjfootballer]

I usually don't mind player celebrations(obviously), but seeing Moss spin the ball and signal a first down after a routine catch always pisses me off.

Says the guy with the jiggly dance in his sig. It was just a sack.

But yeah, I hate any players that do any kind of dance on routine plays. I'm all for getting excited, but some are over the top.

[SonnyJ]

SonnyJ is hitting this one right on the head. Yes you have to respect Jackson's speed and his ability to stretch the field and produce a big play. But if he's not doing that, then the Eagle's offense might as well be playing with ten men. Being able to step up and not be afraid of contact is part of this game. Santana Moss stands up to the contact repeatedly, he'll put a block on somebody on the run plays, he'll sacrifice his body to make a tough catch, all the while still having the SPEED to stretch the field if we need it. He is and always has been a SOLID contributor to this team even when he was practically the only receiving option. He STILL found ways to produce and it was by a combination of his speed AND his ability to get in there and get physical with other teams DBs.

And talking about Jackson being "fragile" and asking how useful he is with a concussion..... how much good is he doing his team when he whifs on a block that could spring his running back for a first down? How useful is he when he gives up on a guaranteed catch because he doesn't want to take a hit? How does he help the team by not giving his all to the team against a Division rival? I'm sorry, call me a homer but I'll take Santana Moss, and his "never quit" fighting spirit, over that **** Jackson any day.

HTTR

RMC

You're a homer.

[Bubble Screen]

Seriously. Why can't he admit that Moss is a good player as well, but give his reasons why he'd PERSONALLY prefer Jackson.

Bubble, don't try to hoist your opinion on others as fact, just because its fact to YOU. When you act as if its ridiculous that someone doesn't agree with you, that's what you're doing. Realize that for every reason you believe something, someone else has just as good a reason to believe the opposite.

First off, I never said Moss wasn't a good player. I said he wasn't as good as Jackson. And, again, there isn't one GM out there that would take Moss over Jackson. But keep telling yourselves there are.

One thing I pride myself on is being objective. Obviously, there are alot of my fellow fans out there that don't know what that entails. Bunch of homers in this thread. Open your eyes, guys. Its ok to say Aikman is a great tv guy (he's probably the best). And its ok to say Jackson is better than Moss. That doesn't mean you are any less of a Redskin fan. It means your objective.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Crap wrong thread

[SonnyJ]

The one where he slapped another player in the face with his HELMET ON? lol...Yeah, what a TOUGH GUY! He's a clown. I can't wait until he and Portis are both gone. Get some REAL players in here.

Not chumps that make a stupid first down signal after a 5 yard catch, with his team usually trailing. Or how about the stunt he pulled in Cincy? What a team player!

First off, I never said Moss wasn't a good player. I said he wasn't as good as Jackson. And, again, there isn't one GM out there that would take Moss over Jackson. But keep telling yourselves there are.

One thing I pride myself on is being objective. Obviously, there are alot of my fellow fans out there that don't know what that entails. Bunch of homers in this thread. Open your eyes, guys. Its ok to say Aikman is a great tv guy (he's probably the best). And its ok to say Jackson is better than Moss. That doesn't mean you are any less of a Redskin fan. It means your objective.

In the first post above, you said he was a chump and that he wasn't a real player. From that, we are supposed to infer that you think he's a good player, especially when you've been ripping him this whole thread? Yeah, OK . Sounds like someone is trying to backpedal.

Several different posters have presented you with facts, figures, and clearly articulated and rational arguments as to why they would prefer Moss over Jackson. Why? Because he is an all-around better player than Jackson. Period, and it is not disputable. You have presented nothing new in support of your mancrush Jackson. It was readily stated in the OP, and has been echoed by others, that Jackson is a dynamic playmaker in space. Everyone understands that. No one has refuted it. And that is all he does. Past that, he's a liability. Worse, he's the biggest ***** in the league. Combine that with his diva attitude, which you can be sure will show itself in full force when things go south or he's not getting his touches.

You have offered nothing but your own opinion here, have offered no compelling counter-arguments, and then claim that you're objective and everyone else is a homer. The irony is hilarious, because the least objective person in this thread is YOU.

[pjfootballer]

Would a better comparison be if you had to choose between 22 year old Moss and 22 year old Jackson? Who would you take?