DeSeanA Jackson...

[Tweedr01]

Give it time, Tweedr...they're probably just trying to come up with some more bogus stats or trying to convince themselves that a one dimensional player actually can do more than run deep routes and the occasional slant and even more occasionally break the slant for a big gain.

I gotta admit that it is entertaining waiting to see the next clip of one or two plays they pull out after hours of searching youtube. It's too bad that it only took a few clicks to get to the stats at nfl.com and copy + paste them onto a post for them to see that after a half a season (good enough amount of stats to see how players are panning out) he's not even looking like a middle of the pack WR. I just find it hilarious.

[Eagles_Legendz]

The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. He's been one of the more popular players 50% of his career would be a better assessment.

Adrian Peterson is arguably the best running back in the NFL. I wouldn't even put him in the top 15. He can break the long run, but he can also get the tough yards. DeSean Jackson isn't anywhere near the best WR in the NFL. He can't get the tough yards. And I didn't say he wouldn't be "as" effective. I said he wouldn't be effective, period. Because you can't count on him to turn slants and end arounds into touchdowns. AP, though, can do almost everything.

As for those 15 better receivers (in no particular order)

Andre Johnson

Calvin Johnson

Reggie Wayne

Brandon Marshall

Randy Moss

Wes Welker

Anquan Boldin

Larry Fitzgerald

Chad Ochocinco

Terrell Owens

Marques Colston

Donald Driver

Steve Smith (Carolina)

Hines Ward

Miles Austin

You guys are ridiculous. Saying "stats don't lie" and then comparing him to someone like Felix Jones already shows you are starting your argument with a contradiction. Felix Jones hasn't produced on a consistent basis. Felix Jones didn't have 12 touchdowns last season, 1200 yards receiving, and set a record for TDs over 50 yards in a season. Felix Jones is a talented player who has yet to do it on a consistent basis. Jackson was great last year and his numbers, the Pro Bowl the 2nd team all NFL All Pro selection all verify that.

He is 9th in the NFL in CAREER yards per game among active receivers (yes terrible, I know, lets take Steve Johnson above him), and he's only going to be getting better. The reason he didn't have a big game against Washington was Kolb checked down the entire game after Vick went down. You can take Jackson out of the game, partially, by doubling him or giving safety help all game, but it will open up other avenues.

And your list is hilarious. Donald Driver? Ochocinco? Ward? How can anyone expect to take you seriously with that?

Jackson is not the best WR in the NFL. Probably never will be. And ultimately what you and I think about him is entirely irrelevant anyway, but here are the receivers who are inarguably better than he is right now:

Andre Johnson

Reggie Wayne

Roddy White

Fitzgerald

Calvin Johnson

I also think Miles Austin is probably better, and Hakeem Nicks might be better. You may like their playing styles more, but Steve Smith, Ward, Colston etc are not better than Jackson at this point in time. Jennings is interchangeable with Jackson. They are very similar players.

[Eagles_Legendz]

One last point: people calling Jackson soft I'm assuming are only doing it to be antagonists, because anyone who took that hit and only missed one game is not soft. Period. Small, yes. Soft, no.

Tweedr, this is the last time I'll address you because it is wasting everyone's time on this board to acknowledge your presence, but Jackson missed a game this season, and was knocked out of another in the first quarter. He has played in 6 and 1/4 games this year and has over 500 yards and 4 TDs. Yes, one year wonder to be sure. I wish the Eagles had more playmakers like the Skins do and would jettison the likes of Jackson.

[Titaw]

You two are hilarious. The reason why I haven't responded is simple, I was driving home from work. Now back to the task at hand.

1. So, now bringing up the fact that the Skins havn't truly been relevant as a franchise since 1992 makes me an Eagles fan? Piss off! I have bled B&G since birth. I simply know my football there's a difference.

2. Are there better complete WR's in the game? NO QUESTION, but how many of them are only two years into their career? Desean was raw coming out of Cal and he is still developing, the kid is only in his third year. I am not arguing that he shys away from contact, I'm simply stating that it doesn't make him soft it makes him smart. If he didn't shy away from contact his career would be exponentially shorter.

3. Yes I do agree that for the most part the Pro-Bowl is a popularity contest, but Jackson earned his spot last year. Will he make it this year? Couldn't tell ya, he's missed one game due to a concussion where he was going for a ball over the middle, and has another 8 games to go. Currently, Jackson ranks 14th in yards and tied for 9th in TDs in the NFC. Does he still have a chance, of course.

4. I have never said that Jackson was complete or the best all around receiver in the league, I simply stated that he has one of, if not the best deep games in the NFL. Currently he ranks, 2nd behind Brandon Lloyd in plays over 40 yds. Last year he led the league with 10.

5. You guys are right that if you take away his deep game he becomes almost invisible, but that is a tough task. The Colts tried and he still caught a redzone TD and a deep ball. The kid has talent.

[phanatic]

You two are hilarious. The reason why I haven't responded is simple, I was driving home from work. Now back to the task at hand.

1. So, now bringing up the fact that the Skins havn't truly been relevant as a franchise since 1992 makes me an Eagles fan? Piss off! I have bled B&G since birth. I simply know my football there's a difference.

2. Are there better complete WR's in the game? NO QUESTION, but how many of them are only two years into their career? Desean was raw coming out of Cal and he is still developing, the kid is only in his third year. I am not arguing that he shys away from contact, I'm simply stating that it doesn't make him soft it makes him smart. If he didn't shy away from contact his career would be exponentially shorter.

3. Yes I do agree that for the most part the Pro-Bowl is a popularity contest, but Jackson earned his spot last year. Will he make it this year? Couldn't tell ya, he's missed one game due to a concussion where he was going for a ball over the middle, and has another 8 games to go. Currently, Jackson ranks 14th in yards and tied for 9th in TDs in the NFC. Does he still have a chance, of course.

4. I have never said that Jackson was complete or the best all around receiver in the league, I simply stated that he has one of, if not the best deep games in the NFL. Currently he ranks, 2nd behind Brandon Lloyd in plays over 40 yds. Last year he led the league with 10.

5. You guys are right that if you take away his deep game he becomes almost invisible, but that is a tough task. The Colts tried and he still caught a redzone TD and a deep ball. The kid has talent.

Thank YOU sir. Just the facts thats all we're asking for. This whole 95% argument is a joke. IF YOU CHOOSE to double him to stop the deep threat then you're leaving open AT A MINIMUM one other receiver in man coverage. THERE IS NO THER WAY TO ACCOMPLISH THIS and dont tell me that ya don't remember the damn schemes. It's called a cover 2 or a 3 deep zone and yes Vick played only one quarter against it. AGAIN. SHUT DOWN THE DEEP THREAT WITH DJ! YOU STILL LEAVE OTHER RECEIVERS IN MAN NOT TO MENTION THE RB OUT OF THE BACKFIELD! I GUESS THATS ALL YA GOTTA DO.

Monday night is on the verge of being epic. Ya might learn something you two, not you Titaw.

[phanatic]

Here's some #'s and PLEASE post your's. I'd feel slighted if you didn't. After all we're missing out on a wealth of knowledge.

DJ rec.6 yrds.113 (1TD) rsh.2 yrds.22

Maclin rec5 yrds.68

Vick att.16 cmp.30 yrds.231 (2TD 1INT) rsh.4 yrds.68 (1TD)

McCoy:rsh13 yrds.88

Eagles:34

Skins:23

Enlighten me oh geniuses of the ATN!

A smoke job!

[phanatic]

McNabb 19 of 35 . yrds. 266 TD2 INT 0

effectiveness in the redzone--NOPE!

OH PLEASE MAN UP. GIVE ME SOMETHING TO WORK WITH HERE. ALL FUN AND GAMES TILL YOU'RE CALLED OUT.

Please break down ANY facet of this game as you so choose. Good luck, you're about to be owned!

[Bubble Screen]

fixed it for you

McNabb was terrible that game, outside of the TD pass to Cooley. Yeah, we got the win, sure. But a large part of that win was the bruising running game we had that day with Torain and Portis.

Anyone that would take S. Moss over Jackson clearly doesn't understand the game of football. Period.

[Bubble Screen]

What makes Desean Jackson more explosive than guys like Steve Smith(CAR), Mike Wallace, Johnny Knox, Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, or for that matter Darrius Heyward-Bey? Heck, even Steve Smith(NYG) is lightning in and out of his cuts. This is what I hate about the Desean Jackson hype. People around here act like he is some kind of elite WR or a once in a generation athlete. Yet there are plenty of WR's around the league just as athletic, and he only has 26 catches and 4 receiving TD's. That's not elite. The hype machine around this guy is ridiculous.

You're basing it all off of numbers. The Philly fan actually made good points a few posts ago when he said he has a big impact on a game even with few receptions/yards. Teams have to gameplan for him. If you try to take away the deep threat by sliding over another guy, then its gonna leave others open.

Deion Sanders was one of the greatest cover corners to ever play. Maybe THE greatest ever. Some seasons he had very few INTs. Its because no one threw his way.

You can't base your opinions soley off of stats.

[Bubble Screen]

Jackson was the second starting WR in the pro-bowl behind Sydney Rice last year. How many seasons has Desean Jackson played in the NFL? Two right, and he has made the pro-bowl in one of them, right? So he has been one of the best players at his position in 50% of his NFL career, right?

No agenda here, I simply think that if we had Jackson on the Skins your tune would be COMPLETELY different. You would be all about him, but the fact that he plays for philly you can't recognize his talent. If putting the Burgundy and Gold make you the best players in the NFL why have we been so bad for so long?

And the fact of the matter is, Desean has one of the best if not THE BEST deep games in the NFL. The same applies to Adrian Peterson, if you stop his long runs he won't be as effective. No ***! You guys are laughable. No wonder people look down on us Skins fans, I would too.

Careful. Pretty soon they're gonna accuse you of being an Eagles fan.

[Bubble Screen]

I would never root against anyone on my team....but deseana isn't on my team....whats your point? This is his third year...think he's going to the pro-bowl this year? Blind squirrels find nuts......

again, we know that he can play the deep ball, that was never in question, but really that's 95% of his game. take that away and you have someone who might as well be philthy's ball boy. If you took away Adrian Peterson's 40+ yard runs you'd have what he is today, #1 in the nfl in rushing by getting chunks of yards....your argument holds no water.

wow, and you say your a skins fan and trash them in the same post.....stay classy philthy

You still don't get it. Your 95% argument is stupid. If a team takes away his deep game its gonna open up things for other guys. Hence, why Maclin has 6 TDs this year. Learn the game of football. Seriously.

[Bubble Screen]

The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. He's been one of the more popular players 50% of his career would be a better assessment.

Adrian Peterson is arguably the best running back in the NFL. I wouldn't even put him in the top 15. He can break the long run, but he can also get the tough yards. DeSean Jackson isn't anywhere near the best WR in the NFL. He can't get the tough yards. And I didn't say he wouldn't be "as" effective. I said he wouldn't be effective, period. Because you can't count on him to turn slants and end arounds into touchdowns. AP, though, can do almost everything.

As for those 15 better receivers (in no particular order)

Andre Johnson

Calvin Johnson

Reggie Wayne

Brandon Marshall

Randy Moss

Wes Welker

Anquan Boldin

Larry Fitzgerald

Chad Ochocinco

Terrell Owens

Marques Colston

Donald Driver

Steve Smith (Carolina)

Hines Ward

Miles Austin

ROFL. Do you SERIOUSLY think all these guys are better than Jackson?

[dockeryfan]

ROFL. Do you SERIOUSLY think all these guys are better than Jackson?

well, that's what's great about football, I think you can actually make compelling arguments for a almost every one of these guys.

But that's not the point. Even if you can, that puts him top 15 in his position. Personally, and I've said this in the thread, I think he's a baller. And I don't think he's soft, because he's taken a bunch of hits, but I do think he's 170 pounds because that's exactly what he is. Now he's been very productive. In the Eagles offense, he picked it up pretty quickly, which a bunch never do. Reggie Brown is a great high pick bust example.

There is a laundry list of Eagles WR that never went on to do a dam thing on other teams. 4th and 26 is one of them. Is Jackson another? I don't think so, because he's got more talent than any of those other WRs. But, he does benefit from the offense? Sure. He's 170#. He may not last, we don't know. But I still think he still shines on any team you put him on. If you guys were arguing that Maclin is over rated, especially for a #19 pick, I would be right there with you. But not Jackson.

[Hitman21ST]

You still don't get it. Your 95% argument is stupid. If a team takes away his deep game its gonna open up things for other guys. Hence, why Maclin has 6 TDs this year. Learn the game of football. Seriously.

This thread isn't about "other guys." It's about Jackson. If you want to start another thread about the Eagles WR Corps, then go ahead. However, in a thread about Jackson alone, that 95% argument is about as right on as you can get.

I notice that once I prove all your points about Jackson wrong, you say "well, he's good because the other Eagles receivers are good." Give it up, BS. I know the game of football. It's you that is showing that you don't.

[Hitman21ST]

ROFL. Do you SERIOUSLY think all these guys are better than Jackson?

Tell me how DJ is better than them.

[Hitman21ST]

Here's some #'s and PLEASE post your's. I'd feel slighted if you didn't. After all we're missing out on a wealth of knowledge.

DJ rec.6 yrds.113 (1TD) rsh.2 yrds.22

Maclin rec5 yrds.68

Vick att.16 cmp.30 yrds.231 (2TD 1INT) rsh.4 yrds.68 (1TD)

McCoy:rsh13 yrds.88

Eagles:34

Skins:23

Enlighten me oh geniuses of the ATN!

A smoke job!

I'll show you the stats after the game.

[Hitman21ST]

well, that's what's great about football, I think you can actually make compelling arguments for a almost every one of these guys.

Be careful dockeryfan, if you disagree with Bubble Screen on anything, he's going to call you a homer who doesn't know anything about football

[Bubble Screen]

This thread isn't about "other guys." It's about Jackson. If you want to start another thread about the Eagles WR Corps, then go ahead. However, in a thread about Jackson alone, that 95% argument is about as right on as you can get.

I notice that once I prove all your points about Jackson wrong, you say "well, he's good because the other Eagles receivers are good." Give it up, BS. I know the game of football. It's you that is showing that you don't.

Dude, you're clueless. This post further proves that. You said if you take away his deep game you take away basically all of his effectiveness. So I responded back saying that if a team takes away his deep game its gonna open up things for other guys. And that's where I mentioned Maclin, and his 6 TDs. If you knew anything about football, you would have understood the correlation.

And please show me ONE example of proving me wrong here. You haven't proved me wrong on anything.

[Bubble Screen]

Tell me how DJ is better than them.

I'm not going through the whole list and explaining why each guy isn't better, or is. But a few of them are laughable. Ocho? Seriously? What exactly has he done this year? Steve Johnson is a better WR than Desean Jackson? REALLY??!?! lol Don't get me wrong. The guy has had a terrific year. But let's not be dumb. And you can't say he's better because he has better stats this year. If you do then how is Ocho better? And if you're saying Ocho is better because he's done it longer, then you just contradicted yourself with Steve Johnson.

Furthermore, Terrell Owens has the most points scored in the fantasy league I'm in. No one in their right mind thinks he's the top WR in football, stats or not. Your list is stupid. Jackson is definitely a top 10 WR in the NFL. And its based off of what he's done this year PLUS what he's accomplished over his career.

[Bubble Screen]

Be careful dockeryfan, if you disagree with Bubble Screen on anything, he's going to call you a homer who doesn't know anything about football

A homer is someone who would take Santana Moss over Desean Jackson, yes. That DEFINITELY constitutes homerish behavior. You and Tweetr are each guilty.

[phanatic]

I'll show you the stats after the game.

What I asked for was your "brilliant" prognostication and again you're shying away from it. Ok mr. hot air, if you know so much about the game and the play of DJ give me some numbers. What's so hard about that? I put them out there and I'll stand by them. If DJ is so easy to shutdown then give me a stat line. Show me a 2 for 30.

Punked at your own game.

[Big Blue Joe]

well, that's what's great about football, I think you can actually make compelling arguments for a almost every one of these guys.

But that's not the point. Even if you can, that puts him top 15 in his position. Personally, and I've said this in the thread, I think he's a baller....

If you guys were arguing that Maclin is over rated, especially for a #19 pick, I would be right there with you. But not Jackson.

How is Maclin overrated, while Jackson is a top 15 or better WR? In terms or receiving production, I'm not seein a whole lot of separation between the two of them over their first 2 years.

[Hitman21ST]

What I asked for was your "brilliant" prognostication and again you're shying away from it. Ok mr. hot air, if you know so much about the game and the play of DJ give me some numbers. What's so hard about that? I put them out there and I'll stand by them. If DJ is so easy to shutdown then give me a stat line. Show me a 2 for 30.

Punked at your own game.

How about 3 for 19 like he did the last game? Or 4 for 30 like he had at the Packers? Man, that's like, almost nothing, because his deep game was shut down, and the Eagles lost both games. Wow, that almost proves my point exactly. Funny how that works.

And if you want some prognostication for the game Monday, how about 4 receptions for 47 yards, 1 rush for 5 yards, 0 TDs.

[Hitman21ST]

I'm not going through the whole list and explaining why each guy isn't better, or is. But a few of them are laughable. Ocho? Seriously? What exactly has he done this year? Steve Johnson is a better WR than Desean Jackson? REALLY??!?! lol Don't get me wrong. The guy has had a terrific year. But let's not be dumb. And you can't say he's better because he has better stats this year. If you do then how is Ocho better? And if you're saying Ocho is better because he's done it longer, then you just contradicted yourself with Steve Johnson.

Furthermore, Terrell Owens has the most points scored in the fantasy league I'm in. No one in their right mind thinks he's the top WR in football, stats or not. Your list is stupid. Jackson is definitely a top 10 WR in the NFL. And its based off of what he's done this year PLUS what he's accomplished over his career.

Never even mentioned Steve Johnson. Thanks for playing though. And let's take the careers, because that's the best way to judge a receiver.

Ocho: Better career averages

Owens: Better career averages

Colston: Better career averages

[Hitman21ST]

Dude, you're clueless. This post further proves that. You said if you take away his deep game you take away basically all of his effectiveness. So I responded back saying that if a team takes away his deep game its gonna open up things for other guys. And that's where I mentioned Maclin, and his 6 TDs. If you knew anything about football, you would have understood the correlation.

And please show me ONE example of proving me wrong here. You haven't proved me wrong on anything.

Yeah, I understand the correlation. If you knew anything about debates or discussions, you would know that point has nothing to do with this thread. This thread is about DeSean Jackson. Alone. You pointed out that he's an incredible deep threat, which I agreed with, but pointed out that if you take away that aspect of his game, you eliminate his effectiveness, never even bringing into the equation other receivers. He is not going to be going over the middle or running the short routes with any regularity, thus making 95% percent of his game the deep stuff.

All I said was I would like a receiver who can go over the middle and be counted on to make the catch (not shy away from or alligator arm it when he's about to get hit like DeSean is known to do). Moss is more willing to do that. Would I like DeSean on my team? That's pretty much what we had when we traded for Moss, so yeah, I would like a legit deep threat like he is, BUT I would also like him to be effective in the short game, too. So I will stay with Moss, who might not be as dangerous deep, but can be counted on to go across the middle and make the catch.

What is so wrong about me pointing out the chinks in DeSean's armor?

FWIW, in the two games that DeSean was shut down deep, the Eagles lost. So sure, you open it up for other receivers, but if you take away DeSean as a deep threat, the Eagles become a dink and dunk offense, which isn't what they're built for. They're a speed/big play team. Not a grind it out team. When you make them grind it out, they get off their game and they lose.