Redskins Strategy and Direction Hazy In the Autumn Sun

[SkinsHokieFan]

This team is essentially where the Cowboys were in 2003-2004.

Bill Parcells came in, brought in some veteran players (such as Keyshawn Johnson, Vinny Testerverde, Terry Glenn) and started to evaluate what he had.

Parcells somehow got a Quincy Carter/Troy Hambrick led team in 2003 to get to the playoffs

The following year, despite bringing in some upgrades, the Cowboys fell to 6-10.

And then only back up to 9-7 in 2005 after bringing in Bledsoe.\

I pray that if the Redskins go 10-6, 6-10, 9-7, that the fan base and Dan Snyder will still have patience with Mike Shanahan

I don't think Shanahan nor Allen truly knew what they had until they were able to see guys under live fire. Part of bringing in McNabb was to help in the culture change and bring a "winner" into town that would also allow the team to at least compete this season.

I do think, despite all the talent issues, the team is closer to what we saw against Dallas/Houston then it was in St. Louis.

However, I don't think Shanahan knows what he has yet, and will quickly be making moves as the season progresses. We'll be seeing more guys getting cut and new guys being brought in

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I agree with you SHF...I think Shanahan is using this season to fix things behind the scenes while some of the established guys play on Sundays. There will be shuffling and a season of evaluating.

People talk about our age without really breaking it down. We have some VERY old players on the roster that could be gone by next year: Daniels, Bidwell, Galloway, Sellers, Holliday, etc. Imagine replacing those types of guys with draft picks or younger vets and the age plummets.

I too think we're not as bad as we looked vs. St. Louis. I think, by the end of the season as the schemes start to feel more comfortable, we'll be a 20ish D/15ish O in the league. Then, as we add guys who fit the schemes and jettison guys who do not, we should improve each year.

Finally, even though I've gone back and forth on McNabb, I think it's not nearly as important as people are acting. Assuming he re-signs, we'll have him around for another 3 or so years after this one. That's plenty of time to establish the offense and groom whoever is hand-picked as the heir apparent.

[The Tris]

Or, wait a minute, could this all just be... wait for it... wait fooooor it... could the best explanation of our miserable performance against the lowly Rams simply be the team came out flat and uninspired after an OT thriller that left everyone exhausted? Hmmm... how did the Texans fare on Sunday? Oh, yeah, they looked just as miserable. Interesting.

I'm not sure which explanation is worse, the lack of uniform strategy and direction, or the awful coaching display we saw on Sunday. How can you allow a team to come into a game that is a must win against an inferrior opponent looking flat and disinterested? I expect much more out of a coach of Shanahan's quality.

Hopefully the Rams game was as much a wake up call to the players as to the coaches (not that anyone should need a wake up call after last season). Unfortunately, it seems like the same entitled malaise has stuck with this team into the new regime. This weekend is a huge game for not just this season, but for the type of leader Shanahan is going to be. I expect them to play far more inspired, and I am anticipating a hard fought, close game. I'm just disappointed that we still are not yet past the point of requiring "wake up calls" in the form of crushing losses to horrible teams.

We talked all summer, and heard all TC and preseason, about the changing of the culture of the Redskins. Unfortunately, it looks like we aren't quite as far along in changing that as we had been led to believe.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

We talked all summer, and heard all TC and preseason, about the changing of the culture of the Redskins. Unfortunately, it looks like we aren't quite as far along in changing that as we had been led to believe.

Changing doesn't mean completely changed. It's a process and some of the players might take longer or never comply. They've been around and had it their way for far too long. I don't think the culture can be completely CHANGED until most of those guys have fallen into line or moved on. So, I think everything we heard is still true...it's just not complete yet.

We need to have something that we've yelled for our owner to have for a decade...PATIENCE!

[Spanky22]

2. AC has to cry himself to sleep at night wondering WTF the skins are doing to him. I never seen a guy look so terrified in space.

No kidding. I feel sorry for AC. He looks awful in the 3-4. Its got to be hard, after having 11 sacks last year, for him to be chasing people around in space and looking completely and utterly awful while doing it. Honestly, we should have traded him when we could have. We already knew he couldnt play 3-4 LB. He needs to be a DE.

3. The only reason I see why people keep Heyer around is because he works extremely hard and is a good example to the other players. I can't never say that it looks like he's taking plays off.

I wish he would take more plays off. Like....all of them.

[The Tris]

Changing doesn't mean completely changed. It's a process and some of the players might take longer or never comply. They've been around and had it their way for far too long. I don't think the culture can be completely CHANGED until most of those guys have fallen into line or moved on. So, I think everything we heard is still true...it's just not complete yet.

We need to have something that we've yelled for our owner to have for a decade...PATIENCE!

I have plenty of patience for with the players and the schemes they are installing. I am a major defender of the 3-4, and I know our OL is a work in progress. I hope we have our GM, HC, OC, and DC for the next 5 years.

What bothers me was the team did not seem prepared to play a hard fought game. That is something that should never be the case under a coach like Shanahan. Lack of personnel and growing pains to new schemes - I get. Lack of preparation - something I thought we'd never see.

[tr1]

That's the real head scratcher. It took Shanny a year off to discover Haslett was the man for the job

Haslett wasn't his first choice...he may have actually been down the list.

[KDawg]

Haslett wasn't his first choice...he may have actually been down the list.

Who was?

[tr1]

I've got to believe we're suffering with Thomas and AH because of their contracts. Who knows what kind of locked-in, iron-clad guarantees Vinny was formulating.

I'm sure it's why we have such an old team with players we can't cut.

And, this board was talking about the perils of a 3-4 defense with 4-3 personnel the minute Shanny was hired and said he like the 3-4.

What would be nice is someone from the organization to explain their blueprint...but, that would obviously upset a number of key players, who unfortunately still hold major positions on the team.

All we can hope is that there is a plan...a plan to better than awful...until a few pieces are in place.

[tr1]

Who was?

It was somebody who got hired this off-season. I'll try to find the article.

[Edit: It was Mike Zimmer...but he re-signed with the Bengals.]

[SkinsHokieFan]

Watch us blow out the Eagles with Galloway on the recieving end of 2 long TD passes

Happy days again

[TD_washingtonredskins]

What bothers me was the team did not seem prepared to play a hard fought game. That is something that should never be the case under a coach like Shanahan. Lack of personnel and growing pains to new schemes - I get. Lack of preparation - something I thought we'd never see.

I understand, but coaches can only attempt to get the players prepared, some of the responsibility is on the players themselves. What I meant to articulate is that we could still have some bad apples that might not ever care what a coach does during the week. Until those guys are weeded out, the entire team might not seem as prepared and focused as we'd like. The schemes and how the players fit are completely independent of that.

You have to admit that the game management has improved. Very few needless timeouts, very few questionable challenges, no clock-management issues yet, etc. That's really the only thing I think we can evaluate until Shanahan has had a chance to sift through the players who have done whatever they've wanted for 5+ years under past regimes. If we still seem emotionless during games in season 2 or 3 (after most of the legacy players are gone), then I think you can have concerns.

[jflow78]

FA was awful this offseason, so NO there weren't any answers in FA. That's why we ended up trading for a QB and RT. We drafted a great LT, and might have a MLB that can learn behind Fletcher and take over when he leaves (here's to hoping).

Our WRs are a mess, RBs are a mess, and we did what we could, getting K. Williams and Torain for young talent behind Portis. LJ was a mistake, but I think Shanahan liked him and wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, personally, I'm glad that's over.

There just weren't that many answers in FA this season. What other NT was there to pick up, that didn't end up signing with his old team, or wasn't over 30? We did what we could there. AH is a piece of **** and took $21 million to play on a team and in a defense he had no desire of playing on or in.

But, in the end, I agree with you, I have no clue what direction we're headed in because they're sending signals in plenty of scattered directions. Seems like they went all out this offseason to go for the playoffs now, but we were awful in a game against a weak opponent, so now people are making excuses that we're building for the future. We DIDN'T have many options, but we it's hard to make a solid, fact driven, argument that we're building for the future when we've gotten older, haven't been collecting draft picks, and haven't even signed the guys who we have that ARE young and good (ie Jammal Brown) to longer contracts.

We haven't even signed McNabb to a long term contract and we've been working on that for months now, and after a game like this one, I would be wondering if I WANTED to sign one with this team, if I were him at this point in his career.

Watch us blow out the Eagles with Galloway on the recieving end of 2 long TD passes

Happy days again

I really hope you're right SHF, but after watching us get dismantled (and our AWFUL playcalling) I don't know. It feels like we're about to get blown out by a rejuvenated Eagles team.

[Dick Edds]

I must say, this is one of the best threads I've seen in a long time. It's nice to read well thought out posts/replies with differing opinions that do not result in personal attacks or arguments over those opinions. I do feel better after reading all these replies ... my expectations are in check somewhat.

This has happened to us many times in the past couple years (Playing bad against bad teams and losing for lack of effort/intensity/preparation). But maybe, just maybe, we needed to have this happen under Shanny's watch in order for him to get our players inline and "teach" them how to win. While great teams have confidence and do think they are better than other certain teams .. those team (Steelers/Colts/Saints, etc.) understand that it really doesn't matter what you "think" or what your record says you are. Those teams have fire, and those team have the desire to not only think they are better than their opponent, but look fwd to going out their and proving it on the playing field week in and week out.

Honestly, our 2004 defense with Gibbs/GW played with heart and passion and fire and intensity ... no matter the score or our record. We went 6-10 that year and our defense was top 5 (top 10?)> That's what we really need ... Redskins pride and players who want to lay it on the line every Sunday and take losing personal. I have no doubt that Shanny will get this team coached up this week. I hope for their sake they did overlook the Rams and were thinking about the Eagles, b/c now we must beat them or we may fall too far behind to remain competitive in the NFC east. All this being said, I'd gladly take a loss to the Rams if it inspires us to beat the Feagles next Monday, after all it is the NFC east. Hail.

[Redskinloyal_17]

I agree with what you are saying almost 100%. Andre Carter looks lost and is to slow even Alexander looks better in coverage than our linebackers. To me Alexander showed his upside by making good plays in last weeks game. Buchannon is someone you left out of guys who need to be cut he does not tackle anyone and can't cover either he needs to be re-evaluated. Thomas needs some more playing time for sure, he is probably our best player, and he is sitting on the bench; which kind of puzzles me. Last but not least Sellers needs to go also he is slow misses big catches in big games and can't run block to save his life.

[rdavis2005]

Great post!! My concern is that Shanahan isn't developing hardly any young players. Most of his draft picks got cut and are now on the practice squad to plucked up by any team. So I'm not sure he is any better at drafting talent than Vinny. Other young players are buried on the bench such as DT, Barnes, and Young even while the guys playing ahead of them are playing dumb football and have been relatively ineffective(i.e Galloway, Williams, Buchanon, and Sellers). Shanny places alot of emphasis on practice, but I don't believe the team went full pads once duringng training camp so of course guys like LJ, Williams etc.. may look better. The Beck signing is still a head scratcher as well, as he is almost 30, and has been a complete failure everywhere else he has been. We could have at least brought in someone like Troy Smith who is young with some upside. So I hope Shanny can/will rebuild the team but the jury is still out in my opinion.

[megared]

I honestly have to question the direction of the offense at this point. There were only 5 runs in the 2nd half against the Rams. Our last run was midway through the 3rd quarter. It wasn't like we were getting blown out, we were only down 5 at that point in the game. How do you go away from rushing when you're getting almost 7 yards a carry for the game? They stuffed us a few times in the 3rd quarter and lil' Shanahan just completely abandoned it.

For the day we had 32 pass attempts, 17 rushes, 25:10 time of possession.

Last week against Houston...37 pass attempts, 18 rushes, 31:47 time of possession.

Against Dallas it was 32 pass attempts, 23 rushes, 25:57 time of possession.

I agree our defense looks dreadful right now...but the way our offense is being called right now might also contribute to how terrible they look. Take the 3rd quarter against the Rams for example...defense gives up a touchdown on a 47 yard drive taking 5:24 off the clock...our offense gets 5 plays for 10 yards taking 2:37 off the clock. Rams get the ball back, defense forces them to go 3 & out only taking 2:20 off the clock...our offense throws 3 consecutive incomplete passes and only takes 23 seconds off the clock. Rams' next drive spans 5:20. Our offense does 4 consecutive passes before punting, only taking 2:42 off the clock...Rams then take 4:31 off the clock. After which we were forced to throw because we were down 11...

There needs to be something better than an acknowledgment by Shanahan that we 'should've ran more'. We are not going to win games without a commitment to the run.

[jwsleep]

One: This is what a "work in progress" looks like. We were 4-12 last year, even with our "awesome" Greg Blache 4-3.

Two: Once we got McNabb, that certainly changed some of our off-season thinking, I believe. we probably have more of a tear-down without McNabb.

Three: For all the talk of getting rid of our old guys and getting younger and better (wonder if Allen has thought of this?), you can't do that if your old guys have no value AT ALL. And were not far from that situation. It's going to take a while to get out from under the mess Vinny left us--several years, IMO. We can't trade old guys for draft picks without someone stupid enough to trade with us. Vinny is out of the league.

Four: My guess (and hope) is that Shanny will instill a winning culture around here before too long. As many have said, patience is the key. It's going to take a while in the best case scenario. Get used to it!

(Very good thread, btw. Props to the OP.)

[88Comrade2000]

This team really needs to be blown up. Other than a handful of players, we have junk.

It's going to take 2-3 years of completely overhauling the roster but I'm not so sure Dan Snyder has that kind of patience.

We need draft picks and we need to rebuild. We need to hit on several picks where those guys end up becoming the new young core of the team.