StillUnknown Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Marc SteinVerified account @ESPNSteinLine On occasion of Marcin Gortat's return to PHX, be advised Wiz are thrilled w/their new center & see re-signing him this summer as a priority Marc SteinVerified account @ESPNSteinLine Wiz, I'm told, would be doubly thrilled if Gortat signed extension before June 30, but deal more advantageous to MG financially after July 1 Basketball purgatory is coming........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Marc SteinVerified account @ESPNSteinLine On occasion of Marcin Gortat's return to PHX, be advised Wiz are thrilled w/their new center & see re-signing him this summer as a priority Marc SteinVerified account @ESPNSteinLine Wiz, I'm told, would be doubly thrilled if Gortat signed extension before June 30, but deal more advantageous to MG financially after July 1 Basketball purgatory is coming........... Saw the writing on the wall once we traded for him. Dude is making something like 7.75 mil this year and obviously will get paid in the 10+ mil range. It's great to be a big man in the league, but I wish dude was about 4 years younger. Not sure what this does to our cap flexibility going forward...needless to say (even tho I like MG), we wasted a HUGE asset to acquire him. Please get EG outta here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Saw the writing on the wall once we traded for him. Dude is making something like 7.75 mil this year and obviously will get paid in the 10+ mil range. It's great to be a big man in the league, but I wish dude was about 4 years younger. Not sure what this does to our cap flexibility going forward...needless to say (even tho I like MG), we wasted a HUGE asset to acquire him. Please get EG outta here. Trading the asset also creates pressure to resign him, it bites twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) If I'm not mistaken, Memphis sent Hasheem Thabeet to the D-League in either his rookie year or 2nd season. I can't remember which. His rookie year. A year later they traded him. To the Rockets. Who sent him to the D League and then traded him. To the Blazers, who I think waived him. The issue with Thabeet was that he is an awful basketball player. Porter is a problem that a lot of NBA teams have - how do you develop young talent? In theory, sending him to the D-League sounds good. It works in baseball, right? The problem is you are sending these guys to play Horizon League level talent in front of no fans with dubious coaching that you can't really control. Does Porter scoring 18 points a night in an offense run through him really make him a better NBA player? Does that prepare him to play with John Wall? I honestly don't know. The D-League seems like a good place for second round types to show off his talents and work ethic. It's basically replaced the CBA in that regard - a place to find overlooked talents who have insane work ethics. It doesn't seem to work for the "go learn the game, millionaire rookie" types. I would look to trade Porter before I sent him to the D-League. Try to get something out of him before I killed all his value. (I would do the same with Bennett if I were Cleveland). Edited January 24, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 The D-League is a joke. Its poorly put together and most fans couldn't tell you what team their NBA franchise is associated with. MLB and NHL have it figured out since so many guys need time there. In the NBA, that's not the case. If the NBA extended its draft to 3 rounds, I feel like we'd see the D League usage and importance grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 The D-League seems to be the area where NBA teams and their fans are completely out of sync. Fans seem to view it as Triple A basketball. NBA front offices seem to view it as a place for cast-offs and ne'er do wells. Cleveland fans have been screaming for Bennett to go to the D-League. The Cleveland Front Office seems to think that cutting him would be less of a punishment. Has anyone ever gone from the NBA to the D-League and back again with positive results? It seems like it's good place to get discovered, but a bad place to learn. Yeah. NBA teams seem to use the D-League just to find players mid season and to rehab their own players for injury. But I think the D League has potential to become more of a true minor league over the long haul. CBB isn't what it used to be. What's going to fill the void? Are we just going to keep having tons of busts and wasted draft picks? If every team bought/created a D League affiliate, you could use it like a minor league. You could hire the coaches you'd want for your affiliate and have players learn to be pros in all of the ways they can't playing in the NCAA. But I have a hard time seeing the NBA commit that kind of money when they think they've still got a quasi minor league for free in the NCAA. Another option is for the NBA to loan their draft picks to European and South American teams and let them teach a bunch of them. I actually kind of like the idea of this. Like a basketball study abroad. Promote the game globally, let the good teachers out there in Europe do the heavy lifting of development, and also let your players become a little more worldly and well rounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 If the NBA extended its draft to 3 rounds, I feel like we'd see the D League usage and importance grow. Its rare for a 2nd rounder to make meaningful contributions to a team, 3rd rounders would be DOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 On Gortat: I would rather use the money to sign Greg Monroe if he makes it to FA. But since he's an RFA, and might still get traded, Gortat is a good fall back option. 10 million a year is tough to swallow given his age, but I'd pay it to make sure I had a starting caliber true center. And actually, if I could get him on a shorter deal, I'd pay more to do that. You've got to have a center and they are hard to find. I see this as our situation: 1.) Monroe - not that realistic. 2.) Gortat - hopefully realistic. or 3.) We're going to be terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 After the Gortat/Same level of play big man situation is handled, the next question will be who to pay/give qualifying offers to for Book/Ves/Seraphin. One of the Wizards guys on twitter said 3/9mil for Booker and QO to Seraphin. I think I'd be alright with that. It would be nice to have enough money left to bring in a servicable vet backup PG but I think they might roll with the cheap option in Temple again next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 His rookie year. A year later they traded him. To the Rockets. Who sent him to the D League and then traded him. To the Blazers, who I think waived him. The issue with Thabeet was that he is an awful basketball player. Porter is a problem that a lot of NBA teams have - how do you develop young talent? In theory, sending him to the D-League sounds good. It works in baseball, right? The problem is you are sending these guys to play Horizon League level talent in front of no fans with dubious coaching that you can't really control. Does Porter scoring 18 points a night in an offense run through him really make him a better NBA player? Does that prepare him to play with John Wall? I honestly don't know. The D-League seems like a good place for second round types to show off his talents and work ethic. It's basically replaced the CBA in that regard - a place to find overlooked talents who have insane work ethics. It doesn't seem to work for the "go learn the game, millionaire rookie" types. I would look to trade Porter before I sent him to the D-League. Try to get something out of him before I killed all his value. (I would do the same with Bennett if I were Cleveland). Outside of Ariza, he's our only asset - if you even want to call him that. I know the jury is still out on the guy, but let's be real...what type of return would Porter bring in? Would including Porter in a potential Ariza trade really sweeten the pot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 But I have a hard time seeing the NBA commit that kind of money when they think they've still got a quasi minor league for free in the NCAA. Another option is for the NBA to loan their draft picks to European and South American teams and let them teach a bunch of them. I actually kind of like the idea of this. Like a basketball study abroad. Promote the game globally, let the good teachers out there in Europe do the heavy lifting of development, and also let your players become a little more worldly and well rounded. I think that works until the first prospect blows their knee and blames a shoddy Lithuanian court. In all honesty, I think AAU has already done what you are talking about. The reason that so many 19 and 20 year olds can play in the league is because they are playing at a college level when they are 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I think that works until the first prospect blows their knee and blames a shoddy Lithuanian court. In all honesty, I think AAU has already done what you are talking about. The reason that so many 19 and 20 year olds can play in the league is because they are playing at a college level when they are 15. Do you think the lack of playing AAU actually hurt Porter in some regards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Its rare for a 2nd rounder to make meaningful contributions to a team, 3rd rounders would be DOA. Yes, most likely. But it would beef up the farm system and force teams to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Outside of Ariza, he's our only asset - if you even want to call him that. I know the jury is still out on the guy, but let's be real...what type of return would Porter bring in? Would including Porter in a potential Ariza trade really sweeten the pot? I'm not saying I would actually trade Porter now. I'm saying I would trade him before I sent him to the D League. I would never send a top ten pick to the D-League. You are basically declaring to the league, "This guy can't play. We are giving up on him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Yes, most likely. But it would beef up the farm system and force teams to use it. Why would they want to? You are talking about a massive commitment of funds in order to do what? Find the next Greg Stiesma? MLB's farm system mostly exists in its current form because the infrastructure was put in place 100 years ago and is, to a certain extent, self-supporting. If MLB had to create that system out of thin air today, it wouldn't. Do you think the lack of playing AAU actually hurt Porter in some regards? I dunno. I'm not sure if he is that good a player. He was a productive player in a good college system. He might just be the second guy off the bench for a decent team. Like Bennett, his biggest problem going forward is going to be where he was picked. He was the #3 overall pick - that's going to follow him everywhere. If he was the 14th overall pick - which might be where he should have been in a normal draft - no one would be freaking out about him. He was picked in a spot where he is expected to be a high level starter for a decade. He just might not be that kind of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 How Kyrie Irving was selected as a starter over Wall is crazyKyrie is a great shooter, Wall isnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Kyrie is a great shooter, Wall isnt. Not this year. Kyrie has been kind of terrible in all phases of the game this year. He's been the definition of a ball-dominant volume scorer. I've been very critical of Wall since he entered the league, but he has been better than Kyrie by quite a bit this year. I can handle the argument (sort of) that Wall's game does not translate well to the Olympics. I don't accept the idea that Irving is a better player than him now. Edited January 24, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Right now, Kyrie is in that protective bubble known as Cleveland. Dude has faced little-to-no scrutiny for his inability to make his team better. As it stands, they will probably be in line for yet another top-5 pick at the end of the year. I'm glad Kenny touched on this last night...I wasn't sure who he was talking about, but he was saying that if you're an All-Star, you need to make your team better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Right now, Kyrie is in that protective bubble known as Cleveland. Dude has faced little-to-no scrutiny for his inability to make his team better. As it stands, they will probably be in line for yet another top-5 pick at the end of the year. I'm glad Kenny touched on this last night...I wasn't sure who he was talking about, but he was saying that if you're an All-Star, you need to make your team better. Could be Kyrie. Could be Love. Kevin Love seems to be virtually immune from criticism for reasons I don't understand. People killed McGrady for years because his teams always got bounced in the first round. At least his teams got there year after year. Love might enter his seventh year with 0 playoff appearances. Part of Kyrie's problem at the moment is how that team is constructed. He is a ball-dominant point guard. The 2 guard is ball dominant. The backup PG might be the most ball-dominant guard in the league. Until they got Deng, there was no one in the front court he could play the pick and pop game that Irving is built by God to play. There are no real shooters on that team - even with Deng. But I'm not sure if a team with Kyrie as the #1 option can ever really be that good. Modern NBA defenses just ingest his kind of game in the playoffs. Edited January 24, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) In all honesty, I think AAU has already done what you are talking about. The reason that so many 19 and 20 year olds can play in the league is because they are playing at a college level when they are 15.at the cost of eradicating post play and other fundamentals of the game. Porter's problem is he lacks the strength and athleticism, not because of a lack of AAU ball. Edited January 24, 2014 by JoeWolf990 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Why would they want to? You are talking about a massive commitment of funds in order to do what? Find the next Greg Stiesma? MLB's farm system mostly exists in its current form because the infrastructure was put in place 100 years ago and is, to a certain extent, self-supporting. If MLB had to create that system out of thin air today, it wouldn't. I don't think it'd take as much work as MLB's minor league systems. You'd only need two leagues IMO, one for the Western half of the country, one for the Eastern half. And each franchise would only need one team and one set of coaches/trainers, one arena & practice space, one travel set up, etc. Then you could remove yourself from the NCAA and you would get some revenue back from new fan interest in the D League. Unlike minor league baseball, you could televise your team's D League games. Every team would have to buy in so that the level of competition could be good. In theory, it's a way more efficient and interesting system than the NCAA. Screw the NCAA anyway. I dunno. I'm not sure if he is that good a player. He was a productive player in a good college system. He might just be the second guy off the bench for a decent team. Like Bennett, his biggest problem going forward is going to be where he was picked. He was the #3 overall pick - that's going to follow him everywhere. If he was the 14th overall pick - which might be where he should have been in a normal draft - no one would be freaking out about him. He was picked in a spot where he is expected to be a high level starter for a decade. He just might not be that kind of player. Porter was never very easy to define. Glue players are always hard to define and he's a quintessential glue player. That's how even he characterized himself pre-draft. You can't point to any one thing in a glue player's performance and say, "see look at that number, that means he's good." He's like Ariza & Prince & a bunch of other glue forwards that have been productive and made positive contributions for their teams. There is definitely a place in the NBA for guys like Porter to start. The main thing is they have to not really take anything off the table when they're on the floor. To get to that point, Porter is going to have to gain weight and get stronger, have the game slow down for him, and develop NBA 3 ball range. I think he can do all of that in time. I don't think his draft status is going to make a difference if he becomes a solid glue starter. Everyone is going to remember how sketchy that draft class was. There was barely any difference between pick one and pick twelve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Not this year.this year has been a bad year for him, but he can shoot the ball. I dont think Kyrie makes the World CHampionship team because they have better options, but the boy can shoot. I don't accept the idea that Irving is a better player than him now.this is an argument that was never made by anyone in this thread. I certainly didnt. But Kyrie's game is more international friendly than Wall's. Marc SteinVerified account @ESPNSteinLine On occasion of Marcin Gortat's return to PHX, be advised Wiz are thrilled w/their new center & see re-signing him this summer as a priority Marc SteinVerified account @ESPNSteinLine Wiz, I'm told, would be doubly thrilled if Gortat signed extension before June 30, but deal more advantageous to MG financially after July 1 Basketball purgatory is coming........... yup, its about time to get on that treadmill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 This is a long thread. Plenty of people have made the claim that Kyrie is better than Wall since Kyrie's rookie year. In here, and just in the NBA world in general. Wall's defenders have been saying he's the better all around player since Kyrie's rookie year. But this is the first season where I'd say most people are starting to accept that as true. The shine is wearing off Kyrie, just like it did for Wall when the team was miserable and losing almost every night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Deron Williams making the cut for USA basketball is also a bad move. Wall has been better than him for a little while now. Deron has gotten a ton of mileage out of his reputation circa Nets-trade. Also Beal making the cut over Wall is pretty bad. Kyrie starting over Wall in the AS game was predictable because fan voting produces nonsense results every year. It's a pure popularity contest. Wall had a better case to start than both Kyrie and Wade. But Wall will make the team and if the coach is smart, give Wall some run with the starters. There were more egregious results out West. Aldridge should certainly be a starter over Blake Griffin and probably Kevin Love too. Kobe shouldn't even be on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Deron Williams has been trash since he came to the East Coast. Regarding Wall...maybe they saw his game being a little similar to Rondo's. Remember, Rondo was either cut or left Team USA camp after he saw that he wasn't in the long term plans. Just throwing it out there to TRY To make sense of him not being added. I just hope this lights more fire under Wall's behind. . Edited January 24, 2014 by RonArtest15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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