The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[SiCkSoULjA]

Gay is a great player if we want to get this rebuilding process rolling with good guys then Rudy Gay would be a no brainer. If we can't get Williams then I would trade Nick Young and our Pick for Gay.

Edited May 16, 2011 by SiCkSoULjA

[Gator Bait]

Gay is a great player if we want to get this rebuilding process rolling with good guys then Rudy Gay would be a no brainer. If we can't get Williams then I would trade Nick Young and our Pick for Gay.

I think I'd rather have Gay than any other player in the draft. I'm not trading Nick along with the lottery pick though. Nick is my starting 2 guard:

nine player rotation

Wall/Crawford

Young/Crawford

Gay/Booker

Lewis/Blatche

McGee/Seraphin

---------- Post added May-16th-2011 at 10:38 AM ----------

Wall/Crawford

Young/Crawford

Gay/Booker

Lewis/Blatche

McGee/Seraphin

This team could get the 8 seed in my opinion. An improved Wall w/ a legit first option scorer to dish to (gay). Second option NY, third option Lewis.

The biggest weakness with this rotation would be post defense. Rashard can't really defend 3s or 4s....Blatche can't defend and McGee is super undisciplined on D.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Gator Bait

[Going Commando]

If we're in a position to draft Irving, we need to be trading the pick. Certainly there will be buyers.

What do you get that's worthwhile in return though? If it's unprotected 2012 lottery picks then it could be worthwhile. But if it's just moving back in this class or picking up iffy vets, then I'm not crazy about doing so. The dropoff from Irving to #3 is enormous. We've got a lot of talented young players scattered at every position except the 3. We should probably start looking for quality over quantity now.

---------- Post added May-16th-2011 at 10:48 AM ----------

But yeah get a helmet and replicate that brah lol

No! No helmet! It has to be exact! Take this one for the team DCchillin89.

[Gator Bait]

What do you get that's worthwhile in return though? If it's unprotected 2012 lottery picks then it could be worthwhile. But if it's just moving back in this class or picking up iffy vets, then I'm not crazy about doing so. The dropoff from Irving to #3 is enormous. We've got a lot of talented young players scattered at every position except the 3. We should probably start looking for quality over quantity now..

you don't trade him right away (if at all).

You play him during the 2011-2012 year and then field offers from teams looking for a young starting caliber PG. But as I've stated before...I'd just keep him. With Wall/Irving/Crawford you are set at your guard rotation. You shift NY to SF w/ Rashard Lewis....and now you just need to develop your Big men (Seraphin, Booker, McGee, Blatche...if he isn't already a lost cause)

[Going Commando]

As far as an offensive player, I'd definitely say no. I think Williams is very different from Melo. I'd say a bigger more intense Shawn Marion. I see Williams being a stretch 4 who locks down smaller PFs and bigger SFs.

Hmm, I see your point. Honestly, that's not bad on the offensive end. The quality of shooting is comparable and the athleticism is a better match than with a really fast player like Carmelo. Carmelo is a much better shooter than he used to be though, so you could make some comparisons there.

Williams's body kind of reminds me of Carmelo's--a bit doughy and heavy looking but strong and surprisingly quick. Carmelo strikes me as more creative and he doesn't play with the same power that Williams typically does (although we are talking about the college game) so there are more differences. Yeah I guess it's not a clean comparison.

I was thinking of Carmelo's performance in this playoffs with the rebounding and defense rather than his career body of work. I just looked at his career averages and they aren't great for a player with his body and talent but for this playoffs he was unstoppable on the glass. That's what got me thinking about a Derrick Williams comparison. It must be something about Mike D'Antoni's system that can bring it out in his forwards. The centers always suck?

It's hard to make out exactly what Derrick Williams is. For the life of me I can't figure out if there has been anyone quite like him in the past ten years or so. Don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing. He plays a valuable position though. If we get the first overall pick, then he has to be the choice.

[SiCkSoULjA]

If Blatche is on your team then he's starting, Nick Young would be coming off the bench too provide a spark and do his scoring he 100% will not be starting.

Wall/Crawford

Crawford/Young

Gay/Lewis

Blatche/Booker

McGee/draft or free agent.

[Warhead36]

I don't want Gay. Without him the Grizz got to within one game of the WCF. I'd rather just make a play at Gasol. I'd offer McGee to get him.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

If I'm going to blow my salary cap space, I'm going to do it for a better player than Rudy.

I'll pass.

[Going Commando]

Theres a ton of players in the league that can score. Most of them are on the bench because they do nothing else. Just because you can score 17 points per game doesn't make you a great player. When Young hurt the team was much much better.

That's not an addition by subtraction situation IMO. This team was horrible and struggling to find it's identity. NY was one of the only reasons we were competitive during that stretch. Those lineups with Rashard and Thornton and Howard were awful.

When we finally started our hungry young players, the chemistry improved and we started winning. NY is still part of our young core. He belongs in those lineups too. If he'd have played with the young guys then I think he'd have looked better and energized. Look no further than the change in Blatche we witnessed.

[WALL-LE]

If I'm going to blow my salary cap space, I'm going to do it for a better player than Rudy.

I'll pass.

this

[Gator Bait]

Hmm, I see your point. Honestly, that's not bad on the offensive end. The quality of shooting is comparable and the athleticism is a better match than with a really fast player like Carmelo. Carmelo is a much better shooter than he used to be though, so you could make some comparisons there.

Williams's body kind of reminds me of Carmelo's--a bit doughy and heavy looking but strong and surprisingly quick. Carmelo strikes me as more creative and he doesn't play with the same power that Williams typically does (although we are talking about the college game) so there are more differences. Yeah I guess it's not a clean comparison.

I was thinking of Carmelo's performance in this playoffs with the rebounding and defense rather than his career body of work. I just looked at his career averages and they aren't great for a player with his body and talent but for this playoffs he was unstoppable on the glass. That's what got me thinking about a Derrick Williams comparison. It must be something about Mike D'Antoni's system that can bring it out in his forwards. The centers always suck?

It's hard to make out exactly what Derrick Williams is. For the life of me I can't figure out if there has been anyone quite like him in the past ten years or so. Don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing. He plays a valuable position though. If we get the first overall pick, then he has to be the choice.

I hate carmelo's game. He gets max money and is dubbed a "super star" but he is poor on the defensive end and he just doesn't seem like a team player to me

---------- Post added May-16th-2011 at 11:36 AM ----------

If Blatche is on your team then he's starting, Nick Young would be coming off the bench too provide a spark and do his scoring he 100% will not be starting.

Wall/Crawford

Crawford/Young

Gay/Lewis

Blatche/Booker

McGee/draft or free agent.

You don't start your backup PG at the 2. If you start Crawford at the 2, you better have another option coming off the bench to play PG. No way I'd have Blatche starting over Rashard ...not that I'm super high on Rashard...but I'd rather have him on the court than 7 day dray.

[Going Commando]

you don't trade him right away (if at all).

You play him during the 2011-2012 year and then field offers from teams looking for a young starting caliber PG. But as I've stated before...I'd just keep him. With Wall/Irving/Crawford you are set at your guard rotation. You shift NY to SF w/ Rashard Lewis....and now you just need to develop your Big men (Seraphin, Booker, McGee, Blatche...if he isn't already a lost cause)

Sounds like a good plan to me but I think Rashard is just about done. That plan would probably only hold you for next season because in 2012-2013 I'd be dangling Rashard's expiring contract around.

I've been thinking it over, if you draft Irving, I think you still need to extend NY if the price is fair. I had been saying before that drafting Irving means NY is expendable and that we should deal him but now I think that'd be a mistake.

Watching the playoffs reinforced it for me: you can never have too many shooters. The 3 ball is helping less talented teams beat more talented teams and the conference is polarizing with most of the best players joining up and leaving their teams exposed with crappy supporting casts. If you draft Irving that's one shooter. Crawford is a volume scorer who I don't trust to shoot for a high % yet. NY would really be your only other shooter. I don't think you can afford to trade him or let him walk.

Four guards sounds good, especially since one of them can play some SF. The Mavs have four quality long range shooters--Dirk, Peja, Barea, Kidd. Drafing Irving means we'd probably have four once Wall and Crawford improve their shot and we can put three of them on the court at the same time.

You're right, drafting Irving means step two is all about developing the bigs. Blatche is Blatche and I'd still try and trade him. But I think when you take the onus of leadership out of his hands and actually have other guys start stepping up on and off the court in those roles, then Blatche becomes a much better player and teammate. Trying to make him into a leader for this team was a huge mistake. He's too lazy and immature for that no matter how many years of veterancy he has. You need guys like Wall, Crawford, and Booker assuming those roles. Blatche fed off their energy and determination at the end of the year and played much better. If we keep him in a support role and he could be alright.

You know what would make this team dangerous? If McGee developed something of a post game. I wonder if that's ever going to happen. Probably not with this staff.

What do you think about trading for DeMarcus Cousins? I'd trade Blatche plus some other attractive assets (first round pick, McGee, or Rashard's contract) to try and get him. Hopefully he won't be an All-Star by then. Maybe you make a deal for him this summer before the lockout?

[Gator Bait]

If I'm going to blow my salary cap space, I'm going to do it for a better player than Rudy.

I'll pass.

what is your problem with Rudy? He scores 20 per game efficently, shoots the 3 at a high percentage, long athletic...can run, and he actually played some defense this year.

What is not to like?

[Wrong Direction]

No to Gay. No to Young. No to Blatche. No to Lewis. If I can drop some big salary in a trade, I'd take Gay back. Otherwise, pass and try to find some team to take part of Lewis and Blatche contracts off our hands.

Develop this team from within, not with overpaid and underperforming veterans. That's been tried and failed.

[Edit: Scoring 2 guards are a dime a dozen. We definitely don't "need" to sign NY. Let someone else over pay.]

Edited May 16, 2011 by Wrong Direction

[Gator Bait]

Sounds like a good plan to me but I think Rashard is just about done. That plan would probably only hold you for next season because in 2012-2013 I'd be dangling Rashard's expiring contract around.

I've been thinking it over, if you draft Irving, I think you still need to extend NY if the price is fair. I had been saying before that drafting Irving means NY is expendable and that we should deal him but now I think that'd be a mistake.

Watching the playoffs reinforced it for me: you can never have too many shooters. The 3 ball is helping less talented teams beat more talented teams and the conference is polarizing with most of the best players joining up and leaving their teams exposed with crappy supporting casts. If you draft Irving that's one shooter. Crawford is a volume scorer who I don't trust to shoot for a high % yet. NY would really be your only other shooter. I don't think you can afford to trade him or let him walk.

Four guards sounds good, especially since one of them can play some SF. The Mavs have four quality long range shooters--Dirk, Peja, Barea, Kidd. Drafing Irving means we'd probably have four once Wall and Crawford improve their shot and we can put three of them on the court at the same time.

You're right, drafting Irving means step two is all about developing the bigs. Blatche is Blatche and I'd still try and trade him. But I think when you take the onus of leadership out of his hands and actually have other guys start stepping up on and off the court in those roles, then Blatche becomes a much better player and teammate. Trying to make him into a leader for this team was a huge mistake. He's too lazy and immature for that no matter how many years of veterancy he has. You need guys like Wall, Crawford, and Booker assuming those roles. Blatche fed off their energy and determination at the end of the year and played much better. If we keep him in a support role and he could be alright.

You know what would make this team dangerous? If McGee developed something of a post game. I wonder if that's ever going to happen. Probably not with this staff.

What do you think about trading for DeMarcus Cousins? I'd trade Blatche plus some other attractive assets (first round pick, McGee, or Rashard's contract) to try and get him. Hopefully he won't be an All-Star by then. Maybe you make a deal for him this summer before the lockout?

I don't think Rashard is done...I still think he can be effective in stretching the floor and knocking down some threes...which would go well on a John Wall type team. I liked his effort and what he brought to the team before he got injured. He should be able to provide more once he's been in the system playing with the same players for more than a few months.

definitely agree on keeping Nick Young...as you pointed out, he is the best shooter we have and he can play the 2 or the 3.

I think Blatche could succeed if we had a new coaching staff in here and a legit #1 scoring option. That would take the scoring pressures off him and he wouldn't get double teamed. I kind of feel the same way about Blatche as Albert Haynesworth...I definitely think he can be a very effective player...but he has wore out his welcome and would be best suited with a change of scenery. I think Blatche's relationship w/ flip Saunders is damaged (and i don't see us getting rid of flip this year) I'd actually rather bring in a new head coach this year and give Andray one more year to prove he is worth a ****.

As far as Demarcus Cousins is concerned...I don't want him. He had character concerns coming into the league and has already had on and off the court issues w/ coaches and other teammates. I don't want anymore locker room poison on this team. I had enough with Gil, Stevenson, and Blatche.

[Going Commando]

If I'm going to blow my salary cap space, I'm going to do it for a better player than Rudy.

I'll pass.

Also, wasn't the big knock on Rudy Gay at the time of the draft that he was a bit of a head case? I don't know if I want to add anything like that into this locker room, especially since the contract is terrible. Scoring 3s are pretty common and decent ones come out most years. I'd rather take one with our second first round pick or our 2012 pick than go for Rudy Gay.

Gasol is the player I'd want. Let's not make it easier for them to re-sign him by taking Gay off their hands. Let's do what we can to get Gasol or maybe a DeMarcus Cousins? Draft BPA with our lottery pick and add one of those two bigs without losing more than one of our four or five top players after Wall and you've done pretty well this offseason IMO.

[Gator Bait]

No to Gay. No to Young. No to Blatche. No to Lewis. If I can drop some big salary in a trade, I'd take Gay back. Otherwise, pass and try to find some team to take part of Lewis and Blatche contracts off our hands.

you aren't going to find anyone willing to take Lewis' contract unless they are getting serious assets in return or they are pawning off their over paid trash on us.

Develop this team from within, not with overpaid and underperforming veterans. That's been tried and failed.

hop is Rudy Gay overpaid and under-performing? He averages 20 points and 6 rebounds per game...and he shoots 40% from three and plays defense? Where is this under-performing stuff coming from?

[Edit: Scoring 2 guards are a dime a dozen. We definitely don't "need" to sign NY. Let someone else over pay.

no one is going to overpay for Nick Young. He might get a 6-7 million a year offer at most...and in that case he is worth keeping. The battle isn't about finding a 2 guard who can score....it is about finding a 2 guard who can score efficiently, shoot the three, and plays defense....Nick does all of these things and he is still young...we have to keep him.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Also, wasn't the big knock on Rudy Gay at the time of the draft that he was a bit of a head case? I don't know if I want to add anything like that into this locker room, especially since the contract is terrible. Scoring 3s are pretty common and decent ones come out most years. I'd rather take one with our second first round pick or our 2012 pick than go for Rudy Gay.

+1

[Gator Bait]

Also, wasn't the big knock on Rudy Gay at the time of the draft that he was a bit of a head case? I don't know if I want to add anything like that into this locker room, especially since the contract is terrible. Scoring 3s are pretty common and decent ones come out most years. I'd rather take one with our second first round pick or our 2012 pick than go for Rudy Gay.

I'm not sure about him being a head case or not...I've never heard that....I'd definitely pass if that was the case though. I disagree about the scoring 3s comment though...Rudy was 5th in the league among SFs in scoring...and he was also the best 3 pt shooter out of the top 10 scoring SFs.

We have John Wall on our team...he has the ability to be one of the best PGs in the league...probably the best natural pass first PGs....we need to surround him with scorers/shooters....guys who can score and can do it both by shooting from down town and getting to the basket....Nick Young and Rudy Gay can do both.

Gasol is the player I'd want. Let's not make it easier for them to re-sign him by taking Gay off their hands. Let's do what we can to get Gasol or maybe a DeMarcus Cousins? Draft BPA with our lottery pick and add one of those two bigs without losing more than one of our four or five top players after Wall and you've done pretty well this offseason IMO.

Gasol is not going to leave a mid-market playoff team for a mid-market bottom dweller. If he leaves Memphis, it will be for a large market team.

and as far as Cousins...you called in question Rudy Gay's character (which I was unaware of) but Demarcus Cousins has well known Character issues.

[Wrong Direction]

hop is Rudy Gay overpaid and under-performing? He averages 20 points and 6 rebounds per game...and he shoots 40% from three and plays defense? Where is this under-performing stuff coming from?

no one is going to overpay for Nick Young. He might get a 6-7 million a year offer at most...and in that case he is worth keeping. The battle isn't about finding a 2 guard who can score....it is about finding a 2 guard who can score efficiently, shoot the three, and plays defense....Nick does all of these things and he is still young...we have to keep him.

I think you're way over rating both Gay and Young.

[Going Commando]

I'm not sure about him being a head case or not...I've never heard that....I'd definitely pass if that was the case though. I disagree about the scoring 3s comment though...Rudy was 5th in the league among SFs in scoring...and he was also the best 3 pt shooter out of the top 10 scoring SFs.

We have John Wall on our team...he has the ability to be one of the best PGs in the league...probably the best natural pass first PGs....we need to surround him with scorers/shooters....guys who can score and can do it both by shooting from down town and getting to the basket....Nick Young and Rudy Gay can do both.

I actually don't think 2 guards who can score are as common as wrong direction said and the fact that NY was the 6th best in the league proves it. Tell it to the Bulls who have to start Keith Bogans.

But there are a lot of good scoring 3s and there are a lot on the way in the 2012 class. They are nice to have but probably one of the easier positions to fill. Maybe you won't find a guy that shoots as efficiently as Gay but you can find a lot of guys that shoot well enough who won't be nearly as expensive. I'd rather gamble on one of those guys than gamble on Gay because his contract is going to be a millstone. If we're committing that kind of money to one player, I'd rather it be a homegrown guy.

Gasol is not going to leave a mid-market playoff team for a mid-market bottom dweller. If he leaves Memphis, it will be for a large market team.

DC is a better market than Memphis though. What about a sign and trade? We're not going to draw UFAs this summer or probably even next summer, maybe we can offer the best spot for a sign and trade?

and as far as Cousins...you called in question Rudy Gay's character (which I was unaware of) but Demarcus Cousins has well known Character issues.

You're right, DeMarcus Cousins is a headcase. Too risky to make a move for. There is no guarantee that he'll ever be better than Javale already is because of his off court crap. He makes Blatche look mature.

But it's tough not to think back about that rookie sophomore game with Wall and Cousins playing together and wonder what they could do every night. For some reason they are spectacular together and Wall coaxes every bit of his talent out of him. If Cousins was actually stable, they could set the league on fire.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

what is your problem with Rudy? He scores 20 per game efficently, shoots the 3 at a high percentage, long athletic...can run, and he actually played some defense this year.

What is not to like?

I think he's talented but I'm not quite sure he's a 13m+ player.

Bottomline: I think he's talented but he's not the kind of player that you just destroy your cap for.

[Gator Bait]

I think he's talented but I'm not quite sure he's a 13m+ player.

Bottomline: I think he's talented but he's not the kind of player that you just destroy your cap for.

I would have been 100% with you on this last summer...but I think Rudy had a career year this year before he got injured....and that is after he received that big pay day....I want that kind of guy on my team. Someone who gets better even after they sign a large contract....not used to seeing that as a DC sports fan.

This contract wouldn't destroy our cap either...it would likely put us to the cap limits for next year, but then the following year we'd free up about 10 million from Rashard's partially guaranteed contract coming off the books (if we waived him) and then the additional 10 million coming off the following year after that.

[SiCkSoULjA]

I hate carmelo's game. He gets max money and is dubbed a "super star" but he is poor on the defensive end and he just doesn't seem like a team player to me

---------- Post added May-16th-2011 at 11:36 AM ----------

You don't start your backup PG at the 2. If you start Crawford at the 2, you better have another option coming off the bench to play PG. No way I'd have Blatche starting over Rashard ...not that I'm super high on Rashard...but I'd rather have him on the court than 7 day dray.

It worked last year well might I add.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I would have been 100% with you on this last summer...but I think Rudy had a career year this year before he got injured....and that is after he received that big pay day....I want that kind of guy on my team. Someone who gets better even after they sign a large contract....not used to seeing that as a DC sports fan.

This contract wouldn't destroy our cap either...it would likely put us to the cap limits for next year, but then the following year we'd free up about 10 million from Rashard's partially guaranteed contract coming off the books (if we waived him) and then the additional 10 million coming off the following year after that.

I think I'd prefer to acquire a SF through the draft but I wouldn't be super upset if the Wiz traded for Rudy.

Like I said, I do think he's very talented.

He's local and most importantly, he's young.

PS: I'd rather have Gasol.